GUILTY MA - Abigail Hanna for kidnap, assault of 2yo girl, Hamilton, 2015

[MissUnderstood]

Does anyone else think that the miscarriage (alleged by the tenant living in the Hanna's home) may have triggered any of this?

Trigger stealing a child to love, I see that! Trigger stealing a child to abuse, hit, burn, shave head, leave naked on a road..... Don't see that!!


MOO!!

 

[Kip]

http://kfor.com/2015/11/24/suspect-in-toddler-kidnapping-case-was-erratic-officers-say/

How could she drive and not have an accident being in such an erratic state?
We are all here expressing our views and opinions. Mine is that Abigail is faking her mental state because she was caught. She lied all she could and was able to try to hide her crime. So, until we are provided with more information, I still think this woman is nothing but trying to avoid the consequences of what she did. Manipulative comes to mind.

I agree. I don't know about her driving, but her lies are all about trying to get out of the situation. She lied about knowing the child and about where she was and what she was doing. To me that indicates she knew what she had done was wrong - what compelled her to do such a thing we' may never know.

 

[tlcya]

Did she know at the time? It sure seems she knew after. The crime seems disorganized. The lying seems to indicate consciousness of guilt.

Must admit :fence:

 

[HaikuMommy]

Let's just say someone was under a delusion that a baby was theirs, when in reality it wasn't. A mental illness might make you believe that people were trying to keep your baby from you. So you might lie and hide your actions while still believing what you were doing was righteous (rescuing your baby). HOWEVER, the cigarette burns dispel this idea for me. While she may have been having mental issues I don't think there is any way you can burn a baby like that while conscious enough to lie and hide it AND not know you are doing something very wrong. I think she must be held legally responsible.

 

[Rayemonde]

Cases like this just add to the stigma of mental illness - don't trust anyone who has any kind of mental illness even suicide attempts, and don't let them work for you because even if they appear perfectly nice and normal, the next thing you know they could be creeping into your house in the dead of night, stealing your baby and torturing him or her.

So let me point out again that I think this would be very, very unusual behaviour even from someone who is genuinely psychotic, and IMO Abi's actions don't seem to be fully explained by mental illness.

 

[ILOKAL]

With all due respect, in a case such as this, I have a tendency to put my faith in the professionals and in those who have first hand experience with mental illnesses of their own or in someone very close to them. While some seem to have valid thoughts on what occurred and why, they are based on quick online "research" and commentary and really have no actual knowledge.

 

[Rayemonde]

I have a good knowledge of mental illness in my family, thanks. My father was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia when he was 25 and was psychotic and detained in a mental hospital for several months, although he's never had an episode of psychosis since, and my mother has bipolar disorder.

 

[Rayemonde]

I was just wondering if someone could plead insanity if their psychosis stemmed by drug use, and found a Supreme Court ruling from Ottawa in 2011 that said insanity can not be used as a defense if someone voluntarily takes drugs and becomes psychotic but has no underlying mental disorder. However,

if a normal person taking the same drugs would not react in the same way, and if the accused poses a continuing danger to the public once the effects of the drugs have worn off, then the mental-disorder defence can be considered, the judge said.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/bl...s-not-a-defence-for-crime-supreme-court-rules

 

[Zuri]

A person in a true psychotic state does not have the ability to be deceptive. AH understood that she had done something wrong, so she knew right from wrong. This was evident in her reported attempts to deceive the police. AH is obviously not mentally well and a further work up of her psychiatric state is warranted. This info is coming from my DH MD, as I understood it. He is a GP.

Fortunately, a toddler's memory remodels up to age 5 as the brain continues to grow. Lyndon most likely will not have memory of this and not be traumatized for life.

 

[sallye818]

Zuri, I had thought the same thing about her not having memory of this, and I thank God for that part.

 

[Zuri]

DH MD wondered if she could have post partum psychosis which can occur after a miscarriage, especially when one has an underlying mental illness. He also mentioned schizo affective disorder. I have to google that one.

ETA: There is a strong link between bi polar disorder and post partum psychosis. High risk between the two per DH MD.

 

[Zuri]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpartum_psychosis

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoaffective_disorder

I had no idea that postpartum psychosis could affect any pregnant woman, even those women that suffer a miscarriage. The posted links explain both. Interesting. I am just trying to understand what would prompt AH to kidnap a toddler.

 

[Zuri]

Labor Day, I am assuming you are an L&D RN. Have you seen this before? Women with post partum psychosis?

 

[LaborDayRN]

Hi Zuri, I am indeed a labor and deliver RN (I have not been verified by WS). Because postpartum depression and psychosis usually occur within a few days to weeks (and even months) after delivery, patients are no longer in my care at that time. I have however received a great deal of education on the subject and have had many patients who report experiencing postpartum depression after a previous delivery. All of our patients are educated about PPD and PPP prior to discharge from the hospital. That education includes resources for the patient and family in the event they are needed. I've also had a close family member experience postpartum psychosis. It's very real. One of the symptoms can include thoughts and attempts to harm yourself or the baby.

I've added a link with some very good information:

Postpartum psychosis is the most severe form of postpartum psychiatric illness. It is a rare event that occurs in approximately 1 to 2 per 1000 women after childbirth. Its presentation is often dramatic, with onset of symptoms as early as the first 48 to 72 hours after delivery. The majority of women with puerperal psychosis develop symptoms within the first two postpartum weeks.

It appears that in most cases, postpartum psychosis represents an episode of bipolar illness; the symptoms of puerperal psychosis most closely resemble those of a rapidly evolving manic (or mixed) episode. The earliest signs are restlessness, irritability, and insomnia. Women with this disorder exhibit a rapidly shifting depressed or elated mood, disorientation or confusion, and erratic or disorganized behavior. Delusional beliefs are common and often center on the infant. Auditory hallucinations that instruct the mother to harm herself or her infant may also occur. Risk for infanticide, as well as suicide, is significant in this population.

https://womensmentalhealth.org/spec...ing_wp_cron=1448556664.6662681102752685546875

 

[Coquette]

If Abi did indeed have a miscarriage one month ago it seems fairly clear it added to/ triggered this event. If she was pregnant I'd be curious to know how far along she was. One wonders if the engagement was tied to the pregnancy.

 

[bluesneakers]

DH MD wondered if she could have post partum psychosis which can occur after a miscarriage, especially when one has an underlying mental illness. He also mentioned schizo affective disorder. I have to google that one.

ETA: There is a strong link between bi polar disorder and post partum psychosis. High risk between the two per DH MD.

Edit: question about pregnancy we don't know yet. Nevermind.

 

[bluesneakers]

A person in a true psychotic state does not have the ability to be deceptive. AH understood that she had done something wrong, so she knew right from wrong. This was evident in her reported attempts to deceive the police. AH is obviously not mentally well and a further work up of her psychiatric state is warranted. This info is coming from my DH MD, as I understood it. He is a GP.

Fortunately, a toddler's memory remodels up to age 5 as the brain continues to grow. Lyndon most likely will not have memory of this and not be traumatized for life.

I think if it were PPP she might have understood her actions were bad or wrong but she had no power over the compulsions. So she had to lie or be deceptive. Or maybe she only realized afterward what she'd done.

 

[bluesneakers]

Cases like this just add to the stigma of mental illness - don't trust anyone who has any kind of mental illness even suicide attempts, and don't let them work for you because even if they appear perfectly nice and normal, the next thing you know they could be creeping into your house in the dead of night, stealing your baby and torturing him or her.

So let me point out again that I think this would be very, very unusual behaviour even from someone who is genuinely psychotic, and IMO Abi's actions don't seem to be fully explained by mental illness.

I agree with you - nothing she's done, as far as we know, is typical of someone with a mental illness. Far from it. So all we're left with is speculation and wild generalizations. I fear if Abi's actions are due to an illness anyone with that illness might be looked at suspiciously, or people will insist she "got off" and mental illness is just an excuse.

 

[Mollyandme]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpartum_psychosis

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoaffective_disorder

I had no idea that postpartum psychosis could affect any pregnant woman, even those women that suffer a miscarriage. The posted links explain both. Interesting. I am just trying to understand what would prompt AH to kidnap a toddler.

After having suffered PPD with my second child, and knowing how bad that was, I could not imagine how scary PPP would be. Thank you for posting the links.

I have no clue what was going on in Abi's mind but maybe she was upset over being terminated from the babysitting job and that along with the miscarriage could have pushed her over the edge. I'm guessing the reasons she was fired are known by LE so maybe that might shed some light into at least the circumstances that resulted in her being fired.

 

[Zuri]

I think if it were PPP she might have understood her actions were bad or wrong but she had no power over the compulsions. So she had to lie or be deceptive. Or maybe she only realized afterward what she'd done.

I asked my DH MD about this case and what could possibly make a 21 yo young woman do something as horrible as this. I am like so many of you, trying to wrap my head around what happened. We have so little info, except for what the psychiatrist said in court. I really hope AH gets the help she desperately seems to need.

I also hope that Lyndon's family gets the help and support they need as those 3-4 hours must have been filled with sheer terror, panic and desperation. God Bless them. I bet they are having a very thankful Thanksgiving.

I simply cannot imagine walking in and finding an empty crib. My DD#2 went missing in Value City years ago when she was 3. I was frantically calling her name and could not find her. I told the manager who was walking by and she shut the store down. Each department had to check for her and call in. She was found in the Lay Away department with a Big and Tall Sweatshirt... Don't ask. I was terrified that someone took her. Sheer panic. She burst into tears as soon as she saw my face when they brought her tO me. I guess my face said it all. This is not even close to what Lyndon's family went through and I was a mess.