GUILTY MA - Colleen Ritzer, 24, brutally murdered, Danvers, 22 Oct 2013 #1

[matou]

Anger against his mother then? The teacher could have triggered his anger IMO. Based on this article posted by i.b.nora.

Even as his mother prepared to drive the family back to her home state of Massachusetts in a beat-up van with no air conditioning, Philip Chism held out hope that she would reconsider, friends and neighbors said Friday. Their interviews shed light on the lanky teenager’s life before coming to Danvers, and the distress the move may have caused.

Did he have any other behavioural problems at his new school? It seems everything was great back in Tennessee.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...her-slaying/YUYYkOkVYUfk82VZpxQPBM/story.html

 

[i.b.nora]

Who was the 15 year old kid that was convicted of murder partially based on some typical teenage drawings he had done? The body was found in a field near his house. Many years later he was totally exonerated. Tim somebody?

The drawing theory is ridiculous, imo.

 

[boston_baby]

Anger against his mother then? The teacher could have triggered his anger IMO. Based on this article posted by i.b.nora.

Even as his mother prepared to drive the family back to her home state of Massachusetts in a beat-up van with no air conditioning, Philip Chism held out hope that she would reconsider, friends and neighbors said Friday. Their interviews shed light on the lanky teenager’s life before coming to Danvers, and the distress the move may have caused.

Did he have any other behavioural problems at his new school? It seems everything was great back in Tennessee.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...her-slaying/YUYYkOkVYUfk82VZpxQPBM/story.html

From that same article:
Walker’s mother, Laura, said that after they heard the news about Chism, she texted his mother, but has not heard back. Laura Walker’s boyfriend, David Fuller, said Chism’s mother was always worried about money, and had postponed their move north because she could not afford to have her van fixed.


This confuses me because Danvers, while not the wealthiest town in MA by any stretch, it is a nice, middle to upper-middle-class town and certainly not the kind of town that people who can't afford to fix their cars move cross-country to live in.

Something is fishy about their moving here and their history.

 

[matou]

From that same article:
Walker’s mother, Laura, said that after they heard the news about Chism, she texted his mother, but has not heard back. Laura Walker’s boyfriend, David Fuller, said Chism’s mother was always worried about money, and had postponed their move north because she could not afford to have her van fixed.


This confuses me because Danvers, while not the wealthiest town in MA by any stretch, it is a nice, middle to upper-middle-class town and certainly not the kind of town that people who can't afford to fix their cars move cross-country to live in.

Something is fishy about their moving here and their history.

Maybe his mother moved the family there for employment reasons?

 

[i.b.nora]

Massachusetts is her home state. Why is that fishy?

 

[boston_baby]

Ahh I did not know it was her home state

That explains it much better

 

[boston_baby]

However, I do stand by that there is no way a person who can't afford to fix their car can afford the start-up costs of life on the north shore of Boston.

I wonder if they are staying with extended family.

 

[boston_baby]

I should add that my point in bringing up that it makes no sense for financially strapped people to move to this particular are or this particular town makes me wonder if the possible inability to keep up with the Jonses may have been a stressful thing for PC.

 

[Foxfire]

An interesting and informative Boston Globe article:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...her-slaying/YUYYkOkVYUfk82VZpxQPBM/story.html

Classes resume at Danvers High School after teacher slaying
[/I]By Evan Allen and Peter Schworm | GLOBE STAFF OCTOBER 25, 2013[/I]

If you don't read it, you won't know what it says.

TY for posting, i.b.nora.. 'I did read it and had wondered where Chism was from in TN. I am familiar with Clarksville, TN. Although the article was revealing, I came away with more questions than answers. The one year move to FL to stay with his father was a red flag of sorts, imo. The revelation by his GF of him reading ahead indicates that he was likely very intelligent, imo.

I tend to disregard the character references by friends, neighbors, and relatives for two reasons. One being that most predators have another self. Imo, there was a good Philip and an evil/deviant Philip; the mask of normalcy>fantasy/reality.
The second reason is that I have yet to find a person that didn't describe the most notorious serial predators/killers past, as very polite, courteous, mild mannered, etc. Sociopaths are masters of emulating, creative, and deflective.
_____________________
http://voices.yahoo.com/characteristics-serial-killer-337070.html
Serial killers usually come from some sort of unstable family environment. Most of their family history shows either criminal, psychiatric or alcohol related problems.

Many serial killers hate their parents. They usually were abandoned by their father at an early age and were raised by an overbearing mother. Many serial killers were abused in some way when they were at a young age, most of the time by someone very close to them.

Early signs of psychiatric problems are also very common for serial killers. Very early on they also become interested in fetishism, voyeurism, or sadomasochistic *advertiser censored*. <sniped read more>
__________________________________________________
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...her-slaying/YUYYkOkVYUfk82VZpxQPBM/story.html

Records show that Philip’s parents, Diana and Stacy Chism, filed for divorce in 2001, three years after being married. He was just 2. In the divorce agreement, Stacy Chism’s time with the children was to be restricted due to “physical abuse, sexual abuse, or a pattern of emotional abuse.”

The filing also asserted the father was guilty of adultery and “such cruel and inhuman treatment or conduct towards the spouse as renders cohabitation unsafe and improper.”

 

[Foxfire]

I should add that my point in bringing up that it makes no sense for financially strapped people to move to this particular are or this particular town makes me wonder if the possible inability to keep up with the Jonses may have been a stressful thing for PC.

Read the article comments, boston_baby. Your answer may be there:

Classes resume at Danvers High School after teacher slaying

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...her-slaying/YUYYkOkVYUfk82VZpxQPBM/story.html

 

[boston_baby]

Okay, I'll read them. I tend to avoid comments on media articles because they often attract the lowest common denominator in society. LOL
Thanks

ETAL Scratch that. I can't access comments. It's telling me I must subscribe. Can you paraphrase it for me briefly and give me the gist?

 

[Foxfire]

ami;9929246]I tend to agree with you, but I'm wondering about the sexual motivation. Are you saying that because he's a teenaged male and she's a young and attractive female, or because something else about the case suggests it? Or is it part of the "normal" psychology of the budding serial killer? [/B]

About the box cutter, it just still seems odd to me, as a knife also can be small, fold up, be inconspicuous, etc. One report has him bringing it to school, while another has him stealing it from the art department before confronting her. The latter makes more sense to me, but then if his fantasy involved "slashing" as the report linked above suggests, then maybe it was just his MO.

Respecfully BBM for Focus>
ami, the sexual motivation is related more to controlling, violently abusing, & dominating the victim; power of life & death over others. For many predators the sexual gratification may come from rituals, torture, or simply strangling them while watching the life disappearing from their victim's eyes...Many would then revive the victim and repeat the cruel act..

Thought this Ted Bundy snipet interesting:

At secondary sites he would remove and later burn the victim's clothing,[285] or in at least one case (Julie Cunningham's) deposit them in a Goodwill Industries collection bin.[286] Bundy explained that the clothing removal was ritualistic, but also a practical matter, as it minimized the chance of leaving trace evidence at the crime scene that could implicate him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy#Modus_operandi_and_victim_profiles

 

[Foxfire]

Okay, I'll read them. I tend to avoid comments on media articles because they often attract the lowest common denominator in society. LOL
Thanks

ETAL Scratch that. I can't access comments. It's telling me I must subscribe. Can you paraphrase it for me briefly and give me the gist?

Are you using a PC? It works for me. You can collapse the subscription pop up.
Try this link: http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...-slaying/YUYYkOkVYUfk82VZpxQPBM/comments.html

The comment that I am referring too; #1 comment, has MS Media Links..

 

[Foxfire]

Except he's not a victim. He's a killer.

He may be both, boston_baby, but his art may give investigators insight to his thinking and motives.. A journey into his mind communicated via his artwork.. Just one tool of many of the resources available to investigators..imo

 

[MsFacetious]

I don't know if it's been mentioned or not...
I knew several teenagers who carried around a box cutter all the time.
Often just the blade, to have it available for SELF harming purposes.

Generally someone who self harms doesn't lash out at other people, they lash out at themselves. :twocents:
There are of course exceptions in the people who self harm only for attention or to fit in.
I just thought I'd throw it out there because him carrying around a box cutter didn't strike me as odd. :seeya:

 

[LinasK]

An interesting and informative Boston Globe article:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...her-slaying/YUYYkOkVYUfk82VZpxQPBM/story.html

Classes resume at Danvers High School after teacher slaying
[/i]By Evan Allen and Peter Schworm | GLOBE STAFF OCTOBER 25, 2013[/i]

If you don't read it, you won't know what it says.

Looks like his uncle and girlfriend are clearly in denial.

 

[ami]

ami, jmo, Chism preplanned the attack right down to the the body disposal by using the portable recycling container and then relocating & dumping the body in the woods for carnivore scavenging to destroy forensics and to alter or destroy indicators related with the cause and manner of death. It would be plausible that he also brought the box cutter from home or carried it at all times.

...(RSBM)

Yeah, I know he COULD have carried a box cutter and premeditated it - a lot of scenarios are possible that fit the evidence, I'm just wondering why he would choose that weapon is all. It seems like... I don't know, like a weapon of accidental opportunity (it's lying nearby and sharp) or like something you'd have to have a specific fantasy about. It's not quick, efficient, likely to kill quickly... it's just an odd choice to me, that's all.

Massachusetts is her home state. Why is that fishy?

Actually it's odd to me too. I live in a high-end part of Mass a bit farther south, and I couldn't afford to live comfortably up in that area, beautiful as it is. It may be her home state, but it doesn't sound like it was her home "town".

And after reading the article comments (following this article: http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...er-slaying/YUYYkOkVYUfk82VZpxQPBM/story.html_ ) I'm even more perplexed. She had what looks like a good University job 2 years ago, and her apparently abusive exH was several states away and no longer in contact, and her son was reportedly happy there, but she moved up to a fairly pricey part of New England. Maybe she was offered an even better job up here?

Respecfully BBM for Focus>
ami, the sexual motivation is related more to controlling, violently abusing, & dominating the victim. For many predators the sexual gratification may come from rituals, torture, or simply strangling them while watching the life disappearing from their victim's eyes...Many would then revive the victim and repeat the cruel act..

Thought this Ted Bundy snipet interesting:

At secondary sites he would remove and later burn the victim's clothing,[285] or in at least one case (Julie Cunningham's) deposit them in a Goodwill Industries collection bin.[286] Bundy explained that the clothing removal was ritualistic, but also a practical matter, as it minimized the chance of leaving trace evidence at the crime scene that could implicate him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy#Modus_operandi_and_victim_profiles

Yep, I get that sex crimes are about control and domination, but what about this crime is looking like it's sexually motivated? I'm not doubting it is - that's a more accessible "why" than a lot of other potential answers, but I'm wondering which piece of evidence is making it look sexually motivated?

Is it that his father was reported to be sexually abusive, so his crimes are probably based somehow in that abuse?

 

[Foxfire]

Yeah, I know he COULD have carried a box cutter and premeditated it - a lot of scenarios are possible that fit the evidence, I'm just wondering why he would choose that weapon is all. It seems like... I don't know, like a weapon of accidental opportunity (it's lying nearby and sharp) or like something you'd have to have a specific fantasy about. It's not quick, efficient, likely to kill quickly... it's just an odd choice to me, that's all.



Actually it's odd to me too. I live in a high-end part of Mass a bit farther south, and I couldn't afford to live comfortably up in that area, beautiful as it is. It may be her home state, but it doesn't sound like it was her home "town".

And after reading the article comments (following this article: http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...er-slaying/YUYYkOkVYUfk82VZpxQPBM/story.html_ ) I'm even more perplexed. She had what looks like a good University job 2 years ago, and her apparently abusive exH was several states away and no longer in contact, and her son was reportedly happy there, but she moved up to a fairly pricey part of New England. Maybe she was offered an even better job up here?




Yep, I get that sex crimes are about control and domination, but what about this crime is looking like it's sexually motivated? I'm not doubting it is - that's a more accessible "why" than a lot of other potential answers, but I'm wondering which piece of evidence is making it look sexually motivated?

Is it that his father was reported to be sexually abusive, so his crimes are probably based somehow in that abuse?

ami, Box cutters are a very efficient ans very deadly weapons, as we learned from 09/11/2001. Many folks asked why the terrorists were allowed on the planes with them. Ironically, I have a box cutter with Delta Airlines imprinted on it. Prior to 09/11/2001, they were used as box cutters...
In the article, it said that Colleen Ritzer was stabbed and cut by Chism.. The autopsy report, if & when released will shed much more light on his MO, imo...
Not sure how you could stab someone with a box cutter though...

ami, read up on serial predators/killers; Kemper, Ramirez, Ridgeway, Long, Lavergne, Keyes, Bundy, and the thousands of other serial killers and you will see the sexual connection. Especially focus on Edmund Kemper & ...Edmund Kemper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The deviant behavior that took place at the school bathroom location, as well as the condition and disposal of her body will also be very revealing, imo.. If she had not been sexually assaulted. There would have been no reason to remove her body and dispose of it in the woods, imo.. Wondering if her clothes were removed & disposed of?

Slitting her throat is very telling and indicates enormous rage and lack of human emotions..It has been reported by investigators that her murder was a pre-planned attack..

 

[ecco]

When I think of box cutters I think of the Sasebo slashing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia... which now reading it the wiki article calls it a utility knife but I'm pretty sure it's the same thing. I think they can kill quick enough. But I also feel that they could have just been a weapon of opportunity, I'm interested in knowing whether he brought it from home or not.

Phillip probably was having a difficult time adjusting, not only was he moving up to high school but to a whole new state and everything. I'm not saying that's why he decided to kill his teacher, I'm just guessing that yes maybe he didn't have any problems in Tennessee and the people who knew them there wouldn't think he was troubled. Also he apparently had some suspensions in Danvers but I wonder what for, were they for fighting? Or maybe they could have just been for being late or missing some classes?

Colleen wanted to be a psychologist so maybe she saw some things in his behavior that other people didn't and paid extra attention to him and maybe that bothered him.

 

[ami]

ami, Box cutters are a very efficient ans very deadly weapons, as we learned from 09/11/2001. Many folks asked why the terrorists were allowed on the planes with them. Ironically, I have a box cutter with Delta Airlines imprinted on it. Prior to 09/11/2001, they were used as box cutters...
In the article, it said that Colleen Ritzer was stabbed and cut by Chism.. The autopsy report, if & when released will shed much more light on his MO, imo...
Not sure how you could stab someone with a box cutter though...

ami, read up on serial predators/killers; Kemper, Ramirez, Ridgeway, Long, Lavergne, Keyes, Bundy, and the thousands of other serial killers and you will see the sexual connection. Especially focus on Edmund Kemper & ...Edmund Kemper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The deviant behavior that took place at the school bathroom location, as well as the condition and disposal of her body will also be very revealing, imo.. If she had not been sexually assaulted. There would have been no reason to remove her body and dispose of it in the woods, imo.. Wondering if her clothes were removed & disposed of?

Slitting her throat is very telling and indicates enormous rage and lack of human emotions..It has been reported by investigators that her murder was a pre-planned attack..

Yeah, sorry, I think we're just talking past each other. Clearly it's a deadly weapon, as evidenced by the fact that he killed her with it. I'm not questioning its deadliness, but questioning why he might have chosen it above other far more common deadly weapons that were also probably readily available to him living in a normal American home with dinner knives, etc., freely available.

And really why it's bothering me so much is because either the stories that have him grabbing it from the art room are true, in which case I wonder if he chose that particular day to kill her or it just happened to set itself up that he had an opportunity that day --- or because he had some kind of specific desire to slash this kind, helpful woman with a very short blade, which TO ME seems to speak of a different kind of psychotic fantasy. It's almost... I don't know, like more torture and maiming than just killing her outright.

I wonder if moving her to the woods was just to delay the inevitable discovery of her and capture of him. He didn't cover her over, at least by the reports, or do much to get away. It's all so twisted. How can teachers feel safe in school when there was pretty much nothing she could have done to prevent something like this? There were cameras, the PC had a reason to be in school, she met with him with an open door... she just used the bathroom, that's all it took.