GUILTY MA - Conrad Roy, 18, urged by friend, commits suicide, Fairhaven, 13 July 2014 #2 *guilty*

[Piney Woods]

I don't see how she can't be found culpable for contributing to his death. Those thousands of text messages are some pretty damning evidence. She's just not a very sympathetic character. Sure she's young but I would hope the judge makes a (fair) decision to demonstrate this sort of conduct isn't acceptable under any circumstances and will not be tolerated in the future.

 

[Renee110]

Regardless of the verdict I hope she is forced to live her life like CA. In a cave shying away from the public living a non life.

I doubt that will happen, given that she has attended Prom, Disneyland etcc.... no remorse or shame. I would be embarrassed to go to the grocery store.... not her.

 

[monkeypants]

I doubt that will happen, given that she has attended Prom, Disneyland etcc.... no remorse or shame. I would be embarrassed to go to the grocery store.... not her.

But all of this evidence wasn't available. You can't even start to put her name into google without the case blaring out...it's forever. When she went to prom and Disney etc none of this was truly known. She had sympathy.

 

[Cubby]

Was it ever determined which of the two first came up with the carbon monoxide poisoning as the means to commit suicide?

 

[Renee110]

I hope that she is remorseful and ashamed but I am not seeing it. I see her acting triumphet and bellegerent.... hopefullu I am wrong....

 

[Cubby]

I think I answered my own question . It was Michelle who suggested carbon monoxide poisoning.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-carter-suicide-20170614-story.html

 

[monkeypants]

I hope that she is remorseful and ashamed but I am not seeing it. I see her acting triumphet and bellegerent.... hopefullu I am wrong....

Oooh I definitely don't think she is either or capable of them. Her mothers response to the judges SM ban on her daughter tells me she feels she did no wrong and is supported

 

[Safeguard]

All of the oher evidence aside, she listened to another person die. Let that sink in a little... I could never, ever listen to any person cry in pain, choke and gasp their last breaths, and just calmly keep the phone to my ear. I would be filled with a withering, cold sweat inducing panic inside, no matter how "helpful" I thought I was being to my "friend".

Afterwards she panicked, for herself, thinking over what might be left on his phone... so she quickly sent the CYA text about, OMG! I never thought you'd really go through with it!

She LISTENED to him die. Of course she knew he was going through with it!

If she was really using "reverse psychology", like she claimed in the CYA texts, why did she not renforce his changing his mind when he showed evidence of doing so?

Instead she insisted he could not go back on his deadly "promise".

"Reverse psychology" my backside,

This createn is Guilty as Sin, and I hope the judge sees right through her, and gives her the max possible sentence.

 

[indridcold]

I honestly don't think I'm going to be able to sleep tonight because of this trial! I really wonder what took the judge this long...

 

[gitana1]

From one series of Facebook messages I read between Conrad and Michelle from 2012, Alice and Alice's Mom had accused Michelle of lying about something (it didn't say what) and Alice's mom wouldn't let Alice see Michelle anymore. Michelle seemed very upset and stated something about having apologized "thousands of times" to both Alice and her mom, but they wouldn't forgive her.

Edit to add the link: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3862935-Michelle-Carter-Conrad-Roy-Facebook-Messages.html

By any chance do you know what page number the Alice texts are on? There are so many!!!

[video=twitter;875440074543857664]https://twitter.com/CCLawNewz/status/875440074543857664[/video]

I am shocked it is this soon!

It makes me a bit nervous. I don't have much knowledge about criminal bench trials but in jury trials quick verdicts can often mean not guilty.

11 am Eastern. Anyone care to comment on how they think he might rule? I'm leaning toward not guilty because there was always the option for Conrad to cease communicating with her. Plus, with so many people calling her a liar, there is the possibility she lied when telling her friend that she told him to get back in the car. For me, the possibility that he never exited the car and got back in could be reasonable doubt. There is no doubt she's morally bankrupt, but ....... I still have questions.

There would seem no reason for her to lie about something that makes her look bad. I don't think it's reasonable to believe she was lying about that. Which may be why the defense didn't make that allegation.


But beyond that it doesn't matter that Conrad could have stopped texting. The question is twofold-


1. Was she reckless in urging, encouraging, pressuring, insisting and bullying and unstable and depressed Conrad into killing himself?
2. Did her reckless conduct cause him to kill himself on that day, at that time?


For me there is no doubt. But others may feel differently and I cannot say what the judge will do. I worry about acquittal.

IF this was the case, the defense would have brought it up. They did not.

I think she is guilty as sin and think this should set precedent. She was, at least, aiding suicide.And in Mass, it's still not legal.

p.s. ohai Cubby!!! {{{hugs}}}

You know I keep hearing how a conviction will set legal precedent but I don't quite see it that way. Again, it's down to two questions, that I listed above. And those question resolve the ultimate question of: Did her conduct arise to the level of involuntary manslaughter?


What if she gave a two year old a loaded gun to play with? Or handed a drunk person her car keys?


I don't see much difference. Her conduct was super reckless based on her knowledge of Conrad's mental state and his love for her and trust of her. Bottom line.


Causation may be where there is more of a hang up. It works for me but I don't know. We shall see tomorrow.


I'm nervous!!

Well, I'm still hopeful. If the Supreme Court found the charge acceptable and lawful I can see that the judge can also see the path to finding her guilty.

I'm hopeful too. I don't feel like it's a long shot although I'm nervous and worry about acquittal. But just remember that the burdens of proof are vastly different between what the state Supreme Court had to find and what the trial court has to determine here.


It is a vastly tougher burden at the trial court level for conviction as opposed to just seeing if the case can proceed to trial.

I'm kind of leaning toward guilty but giving her a sentence that aims more toward rehabilitation than punishment. A light and compassionate sentence. Not what I think justice would be but that's my best guess.

 

[monkeypants]

I think a bench decision would be faster than a jury since there is no one to convince or haggle with or the requests for evidence review etc. it's a streamlined process imo. No breaks or juror concerns as far as tampering etc.

 

[Tigerlily75]

This is interesting. I take it that Alice's mom saw the writing on the wall??
I do not have facebook so can not look up these Facebook post. In an above post are you saying that LadyJustice has them on youtube?
Also to me not only of course does MC have an evil look to her lately but to me she also looks slightly sedated. Anyone else?

In the comments under that video there is mention of a public Facebook page that is covering the trial, and on that page there are links to the transcripts of many messages between MC and her friends. From reading through those, my interpretation is it sounds like MC and Alice had become, or were heading towards, being more than friends. Alice's mom found out and put a stop to the friendship. That loss of friendship, where it seemed like (from MC's perspective) Alice moved on and MC didn't, affected MC greatly, where she was still obsessing about it and talking to friends/therapists about it years later.

 

[SuperTmo]

I think I answered my own question . It was Michelle who suggested carbon monoxide poisoning.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-carter-suicide-20170614-story.html

I can't really go back and read right now but didn't she suggest it and then basically ridicule him about how he would screw up his attempt by not sealing the hose from his exhaust pipe to his truck window well enough or something? Basically telling him how he would fail to do it right before he even tried? Which made them land on the generator idea to begin with? Gosh, this is so beyond gross.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Gitana, I'm sorry I don't know the page numbers. She told a few friends the story in text, some were a direct copy and paste from what she told one friend to another. I remember she told SB, and also couple of the other female friends she was texting with. Had to skim read through a LOT of texts about food!

 

[Safeguard]

rsbm
I'm kind of leaning toward guilty but giving her a sentence that aims more toward rehabilitation than punishment. A light and compassionate sentence. Not what I think justice would be but that's my best guess. [/FONT][/COLOR]

I really hope she get a the harshest possible sentence, but I believe she will get what you stated here.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Wow, the verdict has come quicker than I expected! Had to do a quick calculation to translate to Australian time (1pm Saturday if I've worked it out right).

Very interested in the result. I'm leaning towards guilty, but with a non-life crushing sentence. But, not being a lawyer, I just don't know how "application of law" will apply to this case. It will be very interesting to hear the judges comments on how he reached his decision either way.

 

[The Farm]

Where is MC anyway? Is she home?

 

[Safeguard]

Where is MC anyway? Is she home?

Yes. Hard to believe...

 

[Lilibet]

Earlier there was discussion that the judge's decision could take weeks or months to be announced because the case sets a precedent and he would have to write a long decision. The speed of announcing his verdict has me a little concerned. But perhaps this case seems straightforward to the judge and he was mulling it over and drafting his decision while the trial was going on (to be revised if necessary). How could he not draw conclusions in court?! Here's hoping he has found her guilty.

 

[monkeypants]

It was a very short trial with barely any witnesses. The witnesses they did have all just read text messages really...so by the time he went deliberate I'm sure he had a direction in mind, really. It's not like the defense put on a lengthy show. Hard to fight when you are battling your clients own words in print I'd imagine. Only defense they had was she wasn't there and he was suicidal.