MA - Conrad Roy, 18, urged by friend, commits suicide, Fairhaven, 13 July 2014

[katydid23]

For me, bottom line, telling him to ' GET BACK IN THE TRUCK' is just unforgivable. :no:

 

[believe09]

It was a shell game-she kept all of the balls in the air and she was the puppet master. I wonder if she was energized by how far she could push him? I think she is fairly charged. At the end of the day for me, she knew her actions could land her in jail once LE had his phone and their communications. She knew right from wrong. She knew she was leading him down a path and she pushed him over a cliff. If you step back and take into consideration how she chose to do this to a vulnerable person, a uniquely vulnerable person, I think it is fair to wonder how she has handled lives that were vulnerable to her in the past. Or in the future.

His family does not deserve vilification-respectfully, what teenager would confide in a parent over a trusted friend? Depression is a disease not an emotional state. It is brain chemistry gone wrong for a variety of reasons.

Cant say this enough, sorry for the repeats....she was sadistic. And when she knew she was busted, she decided she had gone too far. I would love to see the grand jury proceedings and the indictment.

 

[HMSHood]

RSBM

When the 'thanks ' button isn't enough.
This perp is just.... ick. There are other words I won't use here. I feel her friends and relatives are in denial about what she is truly like. Disgusting.
Shades of Jodi Arias, indeed. It's all "about HER".

And what if in years to come she has a husband and/or a child ? What if she wants to "help" them ? The term "Munschausen by Proxy Syndrome" comes to mind.
I do not think she should just be able to walk away from what she has done. This young man had his entire life ahead of him. I wish I could tell him there will be a better day coming. --Unless you're dying from an incurable illness ; there is usually a ray of light somewhere on your horizon. And even for those who are sick and want it to end, leaving this world should be their own choice after counsel with trained professionals and consulting with loved ones if possible.
Not some 'attention w---e'. Just so angry for this Conrad and his loved ones !!
Imo.

Rest gently Conrad.

Nobody really knew Michelle Carter until now. Carter is very narcissistic for sure. Like I said, narcissistic psychopath. I also see shades of Joran van der Sloot and Jerry Sandusky besides Jodi Arias and Lori Drew.

Joran, Casey and Psychopathic Narcissism: A Forensic Commentary
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...d-psychopathic-narcissism-forensic-commentary

 

[LvsAMystry]

Someone who has never experienced the extreme despair one suffers with depression probably won't understand how the mind works in irrational ways when suffering from mental illness. All she had to do was notify someone who was able to help Conrad and instead she played on his despair.

This is so very true. I have a close family member who suffers from severe depression, with one known attempt that fortunately wasn't successful. It's difficult to deal with the irrationality you speak of, and it can at times be like walking on eggshells not knowing if a simple wrong word or misstep can be perceived in a way none of us would ever understand. So, in one sense, I could potentially understand a lack of experience in dealing with mental illness, but that's not what this is. She understood what was happening no doubt, and you're exactiy right she manipulated his despair to fulfill the chance of great amounts of attention. I've read that though they physically met a few years back, the context of their "relationship" was really only texting. He wasn't a physical presence in her life, so she probably placed no value on his continued physical presence in this world or value of same to anyone else.

 

[Cubby]

For me, bottom line, telling him to ' GET BACK IN THE TRUCK' is just unforgivable. :no:

I agree. Another analogy based on 'get back in the truck'. It's like the drug dealer who is held responsible for providing the deceased addict for od'ng. We hold the person criminally responsible for providing the drugs, so why not the same here? Sure the dealer didn't MAKE the addict take the drugs, but he/she provided them.

Michelle's behavior is no different. That truck along with the generator running inside was a loaded gun she pushed back on him.

 

[tlcya]

Fact: He was mentally ill and she was one of the voices in his head that made him do it while he was having 2nd thoughts. Btw: She knew he was mentally ill.

Fact: I dispute neither of those facts. :thinking:

ETA with the caveat that worded the way I see it it would read: He was mentally ill and she was the voice in his ear that encouraged him to do it while he was having second thoughts. She knew he was mentally ill.

Tomayto tomahto

I think we both feel the same about this girl and her actions. I don't think it's necessary for us to agree on the semantics of the description of her actions.

 

[tlcya]

I agree. Another analogy based on 'get back in the truck'. It's like the drug dealer who is held responsible for providing the deceased addict for od'ng. We hold the person criminally responsible for providing the drugs, so why not the same here? Sure the dealer didn't MAKE the addict take the drugs, but he/she provided them.

Michelle's behavior is no different. That truck along with the generator running inside was a loaded gun she pushed back on him.

Yes, this. Your analogy is how I see this case.

 

[Steleheart]

I'm sure she was damaging, but she couldn't have caused his social/school anxiety. They didn't even attend the same school and rarely saw each other. Being highly sensitive is a sign of anxiety disorders that already exist.

NO, there is no way that another person can cause your depression. What she did was exploit his depression, encourage and assist his death for her own selfish interests and refuse to get him the help she was in a position to provide by doing nothing more than telling the truth. He didn't agree that suicide was the answer and that - is provable. IMHO.

IMHO she had a legal fiduciary duty - an ethical relationship of trust between them - to look out for his best interests since she inserted herself into his emotional state. Sure, that is arguable from a legal perspective since it was not for financial gain on her part or protecting his assets, but it was about his life. So I don't know what else to call it but I feel confident that LE has a very good legal basis for the indictment.

I would not mind being corrected on that angle from an experienced member with legal knowledge here.


:cow:

 

[pwesterner]

Fact: He was mentally ill and she was one of the voices in his head that made him do it while he was having 2nd thoughts. Btw: She knew he was mentally ill.

One time during my freshman year of college I was experiencing major depression and suicidal thoughts and told two of my closest friends. They kept telling me how important I was to them and how valuable my life was. We talked for a couple hours and I reassured them I was ok. They knew otherwise and as soon as I left their room, they ran and got our RA who got me into emergency counseling on campus and a psych evaluation.

I can honestly say I would most likely not be here if it wasn't for my friends talking with me and then seeking out help of someone who was in more of a position to help me. I certainly would not be here if they had encouraged me to take my life. I was feeling extremely worthless and if someone close to me would have validated that feeling, I would have for sure listened.

A suicidal person is in such a fragile state - they cannot think clearly at all. All it takes is one person's actions to possibly prevent it OR set them completely over the edge. Michelle was in the position to either and unfortunately she chose the latter. My friends were around Michelle's age (only a year older) and they knew the right thing to do was to help me the best they could until they could seek someone better trained to help me. There's absolutely no excuse for her actions. She knew exactly what she was doing.

Sorry for the very personal nature of this post, I just feel extremely passionate about it and am completely shocked and angered over this case.

 

[Steleheart]

I see it a little differently. I'm not sure how to word this also, but let me try. I liken Conrad's situation to someone who is unable to give consent. A minor can not give consent for an illegal relationship. A drunk can't give consent. Conrad was in a state of mind he was unable to make rational decisions for himself and was coached, coerced, encouraged to do so by Michelle.

There are laws protecting vulnerable people. Michelle's behavior was predatory. IANAL, so I'll have to watch and see how this proceeds through the courts, but Michelle's behavior was like that of a vulture and it should not be overlooked because she couldn't make someone do something.

Someone who has never experienced the extreme despair one suffers with depression probably won't understand how the mind works in irrational ways when suffering from mental illness. All she had to do was notify someone who was able to help Conrad and instead she played on his despair.

Thank you for that. I wish to express an opinion of MC's position with respect to Conrad's. "Someone who has never experienced the extreme despair one suffers with depression probably won't understand how the mind works in irrational ways when suffering from mental illness." Nothing has been said or published regarding MC's own history. She seems like someone who is very well acquainted with mental illness and depression and how to manipulate such a person, could be a family member or other friend. I suspect that LE would have knowledge of her history and relationships like that yet still went ahead with a GJ indictment because this ain't her first rodeo.
:cow:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I see it a little differently. I'm not sure how to word this also, but let me try. I liken Conrad's situation to someone who is unable to give consent. A minor can not give consent for an illegal relationship. A drunk can't give consent. Conrad was in a state of mind he was unable to make rational decisions for himself and was coached, coerced, encouraged to do so by Michelle.

There are laws protecting vulnerable people. Michelle's behavior was predatory. IANAL, so I'll have to watch and see how this proceeds through the courts, but Michelle's behavior was like that of a vulture and it should not be overlooked because she couldn't make someone do something.

Someone who has never experienced the extreme despair one suffers with depression probably won't understand how the mind works in irrational ways when suffering from mental illness. All she had to do was notify someone who was able to help Conrad and instead she played on his despair.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I agree wholeheartedly with the part I bolded. I repeat, the girl's actions were reprehensible.

However, I stand by my view that Michelle did not "make" Conrad commit suicide. And I say this as someone who has battled depression for most of my life, at times extreme enough to produce suicidal thoughts and ideation. I understand first-hand the distorted thinking this illness can produce. I cannot say with 100% certainty that I would be here today if it weren't for Prozac.

Conrad was not a minor, nor was he drunk. He had attempted suicide before and was taking medication and seeing a therapist. So I think it is a safe assumption that whatever Michelle was doing to encourage him to commit suicide, there were others, including his therapist, encouraging him NOT to commit suicide.

I doubt if we'll ever know why he chose to listen to Michelle instead of the others. But that was the choice he made. She didn't make it for him.

 

[Steleheart]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I agree wholeheartedly with the part I bolded. I repeat, the girl's actions were reprehensible.

However, I stand by my view that Michelle did not "make" Conrad commit suicide. And I say this as someone who has battled depression for most of my life, at times extreme enough to produce suicidal thoughts and ideation. I understand first-hand the distorted thinking this illness can produce. I cannot say with 100% certainty that I would be here today if it weren't for Prozac.

Conrad was not a minor, nor was he drunk. He had attempted suicide before and was taking medication and seeing a therapist. So I think it is a safe assumption that whatever Michelle was doing to encourage him to commit suicide, there were others, including his therapist, encouraging him NOT to commit suicide.

I doubt if we'll ever know why he chose to listen to Michelle instead of the others. But that was the choice he made. She didn't make it for him.

BBM;
We actually do know why he chose to listen to her - He wasn't in love with the others, he wasn't desiring the others, he wasn't trusting the others. Conrad was in love with Michelle and Michelle was in love with MICHELLE, using his love for her as a way to maintain control over not only his mind but his heart and his destiny as well. Despicable!

Yes he loved and trusted her;
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/20150228/News/150229440

"Just after 3 p.m. July 10, Gordon wrote that Carter texted a friend to say: “I texted (Roy’s) mom because I was getting really worried … so I asked her if he was okay and she said they’ve been looking for him the past few hours and they can’t find him.” Gordon wrote that less than 15 minutes later, Carter received a text from Roy, saying: “I love you btw,”

He loved her.
He trusted her.
He listened to her.

She had succeeded.

:cow:

 

[LinasK]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I agree wholeheartedly with the part I bolded. I repeat, the girl's actions were reprehensible.

However, I stand by my view that Michelle did not "make" Conrad commit suicide. And I say this as someone who has battled depression for most of my life, at times extreme enough to produce suicidal thoughts and ideation. I understand first-hand the distorted thinking this illness can produce. I cannot say with 100% certainty that I would be here today if it weren't for Prozac.

Conrad was not a minor, nor was he drunk. He had attempted suicide before and was taking medication and seeing a therapist. So I think it is a safe assumption that whatever Michelle was doing to encourage him to commit suicide, there were others, including his therapist, encouraging him NOT to commit suicide.

I doubt if we'll ever know why he chose to listen to Michelle instead of the others. But that was the choice he made. She didn't make it for him.

True that he chose to listen to her, but he wasn't in his right mind, he was extremely vulnerable and she chose to exploit that. You don't go telling a suicidal person to go do it!!! If they are threatening to commit suicide to be manipulative like Jodi Arias, then yeah I'd call her bluff. But this girl knew he was serious- disgusting!!! Hope she gets prison for something involving this case.
If she hadn't lied to his mother and her friends and had called for help for him, maybe just maybe this death could've been prevented. It wasn't up to her to play God and say, "well he's just going to do this again tomorrow"!

 

[Dockins]

If she was texting someone to kill another person, or to finish the job, she would be an accomplice for conspiracy. How is this really any different since he is the victim of his own death (as opposed to another's). Does this make sense?

 

[katydid23]

One time during my freshman year of college I was experiencing major depression and suicidal thoughts and told two of my closest friends. They kept telling me how important I was to them and how valuable my life was. We talked for a couple hours and I reassured them I was ok. They knew otherwise and as soon as I left their room, they ran and got our RA who got me into emergency counseling on campus and a psych evaluation.

I can honestly say I would most likely not be here if it wasn't for my friends talking with me and then seeking out help of someone who was in more of a position to help me. I certainly would not be here if they had encouraged me to take my life. I was feeling extremely worthless and if someone close to me would have validated that feeling, I would have for sure listened.

A suicidal person is in such a fragile state - they cannot think clearly at all. All it takes is one person's actions to possibly prevent it OR set them completely over the edge. Michelle was in the position to either and unfortunately she chose the latter. My friends were around Michelle's age (only a year older) and they knew the right thing to do was to help me the best they could until they could seek someone better trained to help me. There's absolutely no excuse for her actions. She knew exactly what she was doing.

Sorry for the very personal nature of this post, I just feel extremely passionate about it and am completely shocked and angered over this case.

THANK YOU for this awesome post. What you have summarized so beautifully is so true. No one can 'save' a suicidal person IF that person is dead set on killing themself. That person needs to save themselves. However, as you so beautifully expressed, it sometimes takes friends to reach out and help the person through the land mines. I am so happy that you had true friends as roomies, instead of a cold blooded snake like MC.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

More than likely both parties were mentally ill.

 

[Schuby]

I agree. Another analogy based on 'get back in the truck'. It's like the drug dealer who is held responsible for providing the deceased addict for od'ng. We hold the person criminally responsible for providing the drugs, so why not the same here? Sure the dealer didn't MAKE the addict take the drugs, but he/she provided them.

Michelle's behavior is no different. That truck along with the generator running inside was a loaded gun she pushed back on him.

Mental illness is nothing like drug addiction, nor do the mentally ill exhibit any of the tendencies or behaviors associated with addiction.

 

[808paradise]

In my experience, people who are determined to commit suicide do not call or text anyone who may try to stop them. The fact that he was texting her and expressing doubts tells me he wasn't truly determined to end his life. Not that day, not that way. He may have intended that in the beginning, but he clearly had second thoughts. I believe that if she hadn't told him to get back in the truck, he would have survived.

 

[DexterMorgan]

The thread title was fine. It wasn't like it was a tmz sensationalized title. MC said I made him get back in there and do it. So why did the title have to change. I feel the new title minimizes the severity of what she did. Coaxed sounds way too nice for how she treated this mentally ill kid. I hope some of you are not on the jury and decide to let her walk. She didnt say I coaxed him. She said I made him. And that's why that title was chosen.

 

[Cubby]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I agree wholeheartedly with the part I bolded. I repeat, the girl's actions were reprehensible.

However, I stand by my view that Michelle did not "make" Conrad commit suicide. And I say this as someone who has battled depression for most of my life, at times extreme enough to produce suicidal thoughts and ideation. I understand first-hand the distorted thinking this illness can produce. I cannot say with 100% certainty that I would be here today if it weren't for Prozac.

Conrad was not a minor, nor was he drunk. He had attempted suicide before and was taking medication and seeing a therapist. So I think it is a safe assumption that whatever Michelle was doing to encourage him to commit suicide, there were others, including his therapist, encouraging him NOT to commit suicide.

I doubt if we'll ever know why he chose to listen to Michelle instead of the others. But that was the choice he made. She didn't make it for him.

No where in MSM did it say Conrad was currently seeing a therapist and currently taking medication. We only know he had done so in the past. It's not at all uncommon for someone to think they are feeling better and stop their medication, not knowing it is the medication making them feel better. It was probably about 20 years of stopping and starting with medication myself, before I finally accepted this was going to be a life long journey if I wished to keep my depression in remission so to speak.

We'll learn a lot more when this gets to trial. I personally think we've only seen the tip of the iceberg here and what comes out in trial will likely be far more shocking for lack of a better term.