MA - Conrad Roy, 18, urged by friend, commits suicide, Fairhaven, 13 July 2014

[DexterMorgan]

Yes, you are understanding that correctly. According to MSM she was in contact via text and talking on the phone with Conrad in the 72 hours or so prior to his taking action on committing suicide. She was talking directly to him while telling his parents she was worried about him but did not let his family know she was in contact with him. And she was texting her friends 'soliciting' sympathy from them because she told her friends she was a mess with worry over Conrad.

In one of her texts to a friend she asks if a generator can cause someone to die. I'll find the exact link shortly.

Exactly. And that falls under the conspiracy umbrella. I think her charges are not too lenient for the facts you just mentioned.

 

[DexterMorgan]

You're not too far off base here - people who are sick like this are often pursue professions where they can manipulate others and I feel that becoming a therapist or any profession where she advises or gives guidance to others would be extremely attractive to her.

Survey says; Bingo. Lol

 

[pwesterner]

As far as MC's mental condition goes... I'm not sure but I was looking at her and her sister's twitter accounts (before she deactivated her's and her sister made her's private) and her sister posted a picture of MC's "recovery wall" and stated MC is her inspiration. This led me to believe she was in recovery for something. Initially I thought maybe some kind of mental illness, but then thought it was probably an eating disorder or substance addiction.

 

[LvsAMystry]

As far as MC's mental condition goes... I'm not sure but I was looking at her and her sister's twitter accounts (before she deactivated her's and her sister made her's private) and her sister posted a picture of MC's "recovery wall" and stated MC is her inspiration. This led me to believe she was in recovery for something. Initially I thought maybe some kind of mental illness, but then thought it was probably an eating disorder or substance addiction.

I saw that as well. She had also tweeted at some point, I don't recall the timing but it was within the 6 to 8 mos prior to this event in July, saying she was thankful for all those who had helped her get through things in the past year

 

[Cubby]

July 10, 2014, 5:30 p.m.: Texts a friend: “Is there any way a portable generator can kill you somehow? Because he said he was getting that and some other tools at the store, he said he needed to replace the generator at work and fix stuff. I didn’t really think anything of it, but he didn’t go to work today so idk (I don’t know) why he would of got that stuff.”

July 12, 2014
8:02 p.m.: Texts a friend: “He just called me and there was a loud noise like a motor and Iheard moaning like someone was in pain and he wouldn’t answer when I said his name I stayed on the phone for like 20 mins and that’s all i heard.”

8:27 p.m.: Texts a friend: “I think he just killed himself.”

9 p.m.: Carter texts Roy’s sister, asking if she knew where he was.

9:37 p.m.: Carter texts a friend: “He told me that day he went to the store to get the generator for work, I didn’t think anything of it at the time but on the phone I heard a motor running which I think was the generator. I just looked it up online and it said they are dangerous and fatal because they give off carbon monoxide. You can die within 20 mins with that thing, I think he poisoned himself and its all my fault I’m so stupid I should have known that’s what he was doing I’m so (expletive) stupid I don’t even know what to do.”


http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/02/case_against_teen_faces_steep_climb

She mentions "20 minutes" a few times. Then mentions she just looked it up after the suicide is over? I don't buy it. I think they both researched and decided how he was going to commit suicide and I think the prosecutor probably has text between them discussing the how to's prior to his purchasing the generator and other supplies. That is my theory on what hasn't been made public and will come out in a future court date.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

If she was texting someone to kill another person, or to finish the job, she would be an accomplice for conspiracy. How is this really any different since he is the victim of his own death (as opposed to another's). Does this make sense?

It is different because she is not being charged as an accomplice, she is being charged as the implied sole agent of his death. It is different because murdered persons (generally) share no responsibility for their own murder.

Blaming Michelle alone for Conrad's action while removing any responsibility from his shoulders IMO unfairly infantilizes him, as if he were a helpless baby dependent on someone else to tell him what to do. He wasn't. Had he been that far gone he would not have been able to function more or less normally in his daily life.

This case is horrible, Michelle's actions were horrible, I don't dispute that. If she had acted differently, perhaps he would have chosen a different route.

But I have a real problem with holding one person responsible for another person's actions.

I'll wager that if Michelle had texted Conrad to kill another person instead of himself, and he had, no one here would be advocating that it was all her fault and no responsibility lay with him. No matter what his mental state at the time.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any cases in which more than one person killed another and one of those people was exonerated because another one "made" them do it.

I realize I sound completely unsympathetic to Conrad and I am not. I have been in the throes of severe, suicidal depression myself so I know how awful it is.

However, I repeat: I have a real problem with holding one person responsible for another person's actions.

I will be quite interested to see how this case unfolds legally.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think the supreme court may find this case in front of them in the future. All similar future cases and charges will depend on what the supreme court states about this case. That's if it goes that far. Jmo. I only say this; due to the plotting methods and betrayal and the kaos that she helped implement. Jmo

 

[Zuri]

Wow. I just read this entire thread and the links provided. Thank you all so much for the updates. I just see pain in all of this, especially that of the mother. She wants someone to pay for her son's death, because otherwise the self blame is overwhelming and simply too much to bear.

I look at Michelle Carter as an insecure, self involved, entitled teenager who wanted the limelight and attention without thought as to how she received it. The grandiosity and narcissism comes through loud and clear. IMO, if not for the relationship between the Roy family and the DA, perhaps charges would never have been filed. Is she culpable? Yes. Could she have done something to stop Conrad? Absolutely. She made selfish, self indulgent choices when in fact, she could have been a hero and gained the respect of all.

This case is just so sad. Conrad needed a friend. A real friend. Suicide leaves so many unanswered questions and a path of grief and heartache behind. Massachusetts has some very interesting laws, like the one where the DA could charge those 9 teen bullies that bullied the girl from England and she committed suicide. Didn't some of them go to trial? I don't recall the outcome.

Regardless, MC is going to have to answer some tough questions. It will be very revealing if this goes to trial. I hope Conrad's mom gets the help and support she needs. God Bless. IMO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/02/teens_family_girl_is_not_the_villain

Her family seems to blinded to what seems obvious to me.

From the link:

“He [Conrad's best friend] further explained that (Carter) was getting so involved in it, and he was just curious about how she knew Conrad, and Michelle said that they had been dating on and off for 2 years and (he) said at that point that he had never heard of her, so he didn’t know exactly if that was true or not.”

Odd that Conrad was supposedly so crazy in love with Michelle, but his best friend had never heard of her. JMO

 

[Dockins]

Thank you Izzy, I'm in agreement with you. I was just thinking out loud, trying to see some kind of legal basis for the charge. I am interested if his manner of death was listed as suicide or homicide? Does anyone know of any other cases like this? Sorry if I missed it up thread.

 

[Snoods]

I guess my question to you would be how many encouraging texts would it take for you to commit suicide? 10? 100? 1000? A million? Ballpark it for me.

First, I am very sorry about the suicide of your loved one, I can't imagine how difficult that would be to endure.

I do agree that the media can be misleading, but based on the texts that have been released there doesn't seem to be any way to misconstrue them, IMO.

I would ask you this: What if she continues to seek out suicidal people and encourages them to kill themselves. Let's say 10 more people commit suicide with her encouragement. I know this is an extreme hypothetical but is one person any less valuable (I know you're not saying this young man isn't valuable) than 10, or 100? What is the cut off point where it becomes criminal?

I will admit the legalities of this case are more difficult to nail down, at least to me anyway.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Interesting.

NBC 10 legal expert Mark Dana explains that there is no assisted suicide law in Massachusetts and he thinks the District Attorney is using the manslaughter charge as a fallback option. Dana and Cataldo [Carter's defense lawyer] both think that this charge should be dismissed.

"Since she had actually no hands on touch of him causing his death, how they even got an indictment is beyond me," Dana says.

District Attorney Thomas Quinn, who originally brought the charge against Carter, has recused himself from the case because he is related to Roy.

http://www.turnto10.com/story/28219...-allegedly-encouraging-friend-to-kill-himself

 

[SwampMama]

Perhaps the word we are looking for is "coerce" or "coerced". Meaning to pressure, intimidate, or force (someone) into doing something.

I think we have spent a lot of the time debating the semantics when in reality it is hard to find the right word for what she did because it is so very cruel and un-natural. You just don't expect someone to do such a vile, twisted and calculatingly manipulative to destroy another human when they are at their lowest point.

She not only did this to him but to his family as well. She had contact with them while this was going on, knew of their frantic concern and could have easily prevented this, alerted his parents, contacted 911. Not only did she NOT help, she actually did everything possible to make sure that he went thru with it.

Then she launched herself into full glory of gaining attention and continuing to mess with their minds and their emotions. She even lied to police. She KNEW what she did was wrong and she did it anyway. What a thoroughly repulsive human being.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

According to the link I just posted, the source for Michelle telling Conrad to "get back in" the truck is none other than...Michelle herself, in a text to another friend.

Has it been stated anywhere that LE has the actual text from Michelle to Conrad telling him to get back in the truck?

ETA: Never mind, just found some sources on my lazy self own.

 

[Snoods]

Thank you Izzy, I'm in agreement with you. I was just thinking out loud, trying to see some kind of legal basis for the charge. I am interested if his manner of death was listed as suicide or homicide? Does anyone know of any other cases like this? Sorry if I missed it up thread.

Maybe a tiny bit similar, but remember the Tyler Clementi case? He was the gay college student who committed suicide by jumping off a bridge after his roommate live streamed a video of him having sex with another man. I know there are a lot of differences (I believe this was charged as a hate crime, which wasn't proven) but similar in that he was nowhere near Tyler when he committed suicide.

Dharun Ravi had been found guilty of charges including bias intimidation, invasion of privacy, hindering apprehension and tampering with evidence after the death of Tyler Clementi just three weeks into their first semester of college.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/05/21...mentis-roommate-sentenced-to-30-days-in-jail/

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Maybe a tiny bit similar, but remember the Tyler Clementi case? He was the gay college student who committed suicide by jumping off a bridge after his roommate live streamed a video of him having sex with another man. I know there are a lot of differences (I believe this was charged as a hate crime, which wasn't proven) but similar in that he was nowhere near Tyler when he committed suicide.



http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/05/21...mentis-roommate-sentenced-to-30-days-in-jail/

Thanks, Snoods. Thing is, unlike MC, Ravi wasn't charged with culpability in Clementi's death. From the article:

"He was not accused of actually causing Clementi’s death."

 

[Cubby]

According to the link I just posted, the source for Michelle telling Conrad to "get back in" the truck is none other than...Michelle herself, in a text to another friend.

Has it been stated anywhere that LE has the actual text from Michelle to Conrad telling him to get back in the truck?

ETA: Never mind, just found some sources on my lazy self own.

She didn't text him. She apparently spoke the 'get back in the truck' to him during their 20 minute phone call while she was listening to the generator and him killing himself. It's my understanding she was describing her actions via text to her friends. Time will tell if the phone records match what she told her friends.

MSM indicates texts exist going back a week, or the week before (I've read it stated both ways) that they did the research together. And all of his text threads were deleted off his phone except for the long one between himself and MC discussing the suicide.

 

[Snoods]

Thanks, Snoods. Thing is, unlike MC, Ravi wasn't charged with culpability in Clementi's death. From the article:

"He was not accused of actually causing Clementi’s death."

That's true...it will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Although in my eyes I see MC as being more culpable than Ravi was, I don't know enough about the law to make an intelligent prediction regarding the charges sticking.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Just doing a thought experiment.

With absolutely nothing to base this on except my own speculation, I imagine that every day in this country, the abusers in abusive relationships tell their partners that they should just kill themselves because they are useless, worthless, unlovable, etc.

And I imagine some of those partners probably do kill themselves as a result of this abuse.

Yet we never hear of charges being brought against the "encouraging" partner. At least I never have.

Therefore more and more I am inclined to think there is no realistic legal basis for the charges against MC. I am aware that a grand jury indicted her, but I've seen that old saw about the ham sandwich proved accurate over and over again.

Goodnight, everyone, and thanks for the civil discussion whereby reasonable minds can disagree.

 

[katilac]

An estimated 28% of Americans suffer mental illness. Our rate of addiction runs about 8% (not counting tobacco).

Why are you excluding a form of addiction when stating the rate of addiction? That makes no sense to me.