MA - Conrad Roy, 18, urged by friend, commits suicide, Fairhaven, 13 July 2014

[katydid23]

Of course. Makes total sense to me. Thing is, we aren't suicidal. People experiencing suicidal ideation have a different reasoning process. The #1 with a bullet, biological imperative of all species is to survive, right? What does that tell you about how degenerated a suicidal person's mental state is? You're talking about it as you would talk about having your car break down, "I'd be so bummed if my boyfriend didn't help me."

But you seem to be saying that it does not matter what anyone says---a suicidal person will do it, no matter what anyone else says or does...

I do not believe that. Some might be unstoppable. But maybe others can be helped in time.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Of course. Makes total sense to me. Thing is, we aren't suicidal. People experiencing suicidal ideation have a different reasoning process. The #1 with a bullet, biological imperative of all species is to survive, right? What does that tell you about how degenerated a suicidal person's mental state is? You're talking about it as you would talk about having your car break down, "I'd be so bummed if my boyfriend didn't help me."

Bottom line: She preyed on his mental illness and now she is going to do jail time for that. Imagine she did what she did to a suicidal person who contacted her through a suicide hotline. She would get charged with negligent homicide.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Oh well if the DA thinks the case is solid then it must be. I mean who ever heard of a DA overcharging?

And whoever heard of a friend saying get back in there and kill yourself. While telling everyone that I wish there was something I could have done to prevent him from taking his life. Wth

 

[Steleheart]

Culpability comes into play with this girl when, along with her manipulating a very vulnerable young man she did NOT get the help available to him when she talked to his MOTHER and SISTER and instead she LIED. She had the opportunity to tell his mother he was on the verge of suicide so HURRY! No, she LIED to them. she wasn't going to LET HIM decide to live. That's what she said in fact, acknowledging that she ALONE had the power over his decision in her mind!

IMO this is no different than a sexual predator who takes advantage of a vulnerable and curious teen and over rides that kid's flawed judgment to his own advantage.

It's no different than anyone who manipulates any other person who is UNABLE to make logical choices for their own advantage, no different than exploiting the vulnerability of the elderly to scam them out of their savings, etc., No different than exploiting mentally challenged persons or any other situation where one person exploits one less able to be mentally, maturely, physically, financially, sexually or otherwise make the right choice for themselves.

More despicable in this case because she lied to his family when their help was available to him.

She basked in the glory and attention she gained from his death.

NO she did not make him suicidal - he was suicidal - what she did was facilitate his death even AFTER he tried to make a conscious decision to live and PREVENTED the help that was available from his family.

If his mother had gotten to him would he be alive now? We don't know, but we DO know that since she lied to his mother he is dead now. Since she took advantage of his devotion and love for her, his trust in her, the help to decide, etc., he is dead.

Not only that - she admitted it to others, she said, in fact that she could have prevented it, she also said she wasn't going to let him not do it. "LET HIM"

:cow:

 

[Cubby]

Adding to the timeline:

July 10, 3:00 pm (appx) MC texts friend that Conrad can't be found and she texted his mother to see if he is alright.
July 10, 3:15 pm MC receives text from Conrad
July 10, 10:30 pm MC texts friend asking about a generator killing someone and discussing Conrad purchase of a generator and other tools.
July 11, evening unknown time, MC texts a friend stating she still hasn't found him and is a mess.
July 11, evening, approximately 1 hour later MC texts Conrad and asks him "let me know when you're gonna do it"
July 11, late evening. Texts her friends telling them it is her fault Conrad is dead.
July 12, MC spends day speaking with and texting Conrad via phone.
July 12, Last contact between MC and Conrad approximately 6:26pm.
July 13, Conrad found deceased in his pickup truck behind a store.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/20150227/NEWS/150229466/101194/EDU02?template=printart
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/02/case_against_teen_faces_steep_climb


More info on timeline at the bostonherald link.

 

[Schuby]

But you seem to be saying that it does not matter what anyone says---a suicidal person will do it, no matter what anyone else says or does...

I do not believe that. Some might be unstoppable. But maybe others can be helped in time.

Please don't make me say this again. I AM NOT SAYING SHE IS A GOOD PERSON. I WOULD NOT HIRE HER TO ANSWER THE SUICIDE PREVENTION HOTLINE. SHE PROBABLY HAS CROOKED TEETH AND SMELLS FUNNY.

Doesn't mean she's to blame for his death.

 

[Steleheart]

But you seem to be saying that it does not matter what anyone says---a suicidal person will do it, no matter what anyone else says or does...

I do not believe that. Some might be unstoppable. But maybe others can be helped in time.

Especially when they ask for help which he did when he got out of the truck.

:cow:

 

[Steleheart]

Please don't make me say this again. I AM NOT SAYING SHE IS A GOOD PERSON. I WOULD NOT HIRE HER TO ANSWER THE SUICIDE PREVENTION HOTLINE. SHE PROBABLY HAS CROOKED TEETH AND SMELLS FUNNY.

Doesn't mean she's to blame for his death.

No one can MAKE you say anything.

:cow:

 

[DexterMorgan]

I WOULD NOT HIRE HER TO ANSWER THE SUICIDE PREVENTION HOTLINE.

Why not? Didnt you say that she had no part in assisting him with committing suicide. Didnt you say he would have done it anyway. Didnt you say that people wont commit suicide just because somebody was telling him to.

 

[katydid23]

Please don't make me say this again. I AM NOT SAYING SHE IS A GOOD PERSON. I WOULD NOT HIRE HER TO ANSWER THE SUICIDE PREVENTION HOTLINE. SHE PROBABLY HAS CROOKED TEETH AND SMELLS FUNNY.

Doesn't mean she's to blame for his death.

She is PARTIALLY to blame, In My Opinion. She OBSTRUCTED his family from trying to help him. She lied to them when they were searching for him.

When he himself, CLIMBED OUT OF THE CARBON MONOXIDE, she said GET BACK IN THE TRUCK.

She shares the blame for his death, imo. As she said, she was not going to 'let him' choose life.

 

[LvsAMystry]

Please don't make me say this again. I AM NOT SAYING SHE IS A GOOD PERSON. I WOULD NOT HIRE HER TO ANSWER THE SUICIDE PREVENTION HOTLINE. SHE PROBABLY HAS CROOKED TEETH AND SMELLS FUNNY.

Doesn't mean she's to blame for his death.

I don't think anyone is alleging she is fully responsible or to blame for his death, but the query is whether she has some criminal responsibility for it by assisting, advising and encouraging it to happen. That is most certainly criminal in some states

 

[Steleheart]

Adding to the timeline:

July 10, 3:00 pm (appx) MC texts friend that Conrad can't be found and she texted his mother to see if he is alright.
July 10, 3:15 pm MC receives text from Conrad
July 10, 10:30 pm MC texts friend asking about a generator killing someone and discussing Conrad purchase of a generator and other tools.
July 11, evening unknown time, MC texts a friend stating she still hasn't found him and is a mess.
July 11, evening, approximately 1 hour later MC texts Conrad and asks him "let me know when you're gonna do it"
July 11, late evening. Texts her friends telling them it is her fault Conrad is dead.
July 12, MC spends day speaking with and texting Conrad via phone.
July 12, Last contact between MC and Conrad approximately 6:26pm.
July 13, Conrad found deceased in his pickup truck behind a store.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/20150227/NEWS/150229466/101194/EDU02?template=printart
http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2015/02/case_against_teen_faces_steep_climb


More info on timeline at the bostonherald link.

Thank you. Maybe it's not clear to others who have not entirely looked at all the information, but according to her timeline ( she was clearly in charge of it) if Dear Conrad had not gotten back in the truck, MC was going to look bad since she had already reported him dead. Not only that she would not get the sympathy due to her as the girlfriend who suffered a loss after doing everything she could to save him!

Lies the whole way all to her own advantage at the expense of a mentally vulnerable young man.

Yes it's criminal and it is plain to Law Enforcement after a very lengthy investigation.

:cow:

 

[DexterMorgan]

Okay Schuby. Let her walk with no felony so one day you can find out that she happens to be your child's guidance counselor. Or maybe your relative's therapist. No harm no foul. Just charge her with a mis demeanor and let her continue helping others. Ok.

 

[Cubby]

It's getting late and I am too tired to look now, but do we have any confirmation she was in communication with Conrad's family prior to her text to his sister after the suicide occured?

I am wondering if she was really communicating with his family or just telling her friends she was?

 

[Steleheart]

It's getting late and I am too tired to look now, but do we have any confirmation she was in communication with Conrad's family prior to her text to his sister after the suicide occured?

I am wondering if she was really communicating with his family or just telling her friends she was?

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/20150227/NEWS/150229466/101194/EDU02?template=printart

According to police she actually did text the mother;

<snip>
Among those Carter texted, police said, was Roy's mother. Carter said she was worried about Conrad's whereabouts in the days and hours before his July 2014 suicide.Gordon alleges that Carter, then 17, sent the slew of messages leading up to Roy’s suicide on July 13 because “she was planning to continue to encourage Conrad to take his own life, so as a result she was beginning to put together a plan to get sympathy from her friends.”
Gordon alleges that such a plan was evident because, late on the night of July 11, “she already started explaining (to friends) that it’s her fault that Conrad is dead, even though he was still alive and speaking and texting with her regularly.”

<snip>
Just after 3 p.m. July 10, Gordon wrote that Carter texted a friend to say: “I texted (Roy’s) mom because I was getting really worried … so I asked her if he was okay and she said they’ve been looking for him the past few hours and they can’t find him.”Gordon wrote that less than 15 minutes later, Carter received a text from Roy, saying: “I love you btw,”


http://fairhavenneighborhoodnews.com/ARCHIVES/2015 ISSUES/02-26-15 Surrender.pdf (page 7)

<snip>
"Ms. Carter also texted Mr. Roy’s 13-year-old sister with long, detailed, dramatic messages that she attributed to Mr. Roy that detailed his depression and reasons why he wished to kill himself."

So I feel confident that she was actually in contact with the Mother and sister because I imagine the police verified those contacts with them.

:cow:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

In my opinion, the thread title is misleading. It's not that someone 'made' someone else commit suicide, but it's that someone 'encouraged' or 'counseled' someone else to commit suicide. And so, regarding issues like culpability, we're not talking about someone who pulled a trigger, but someone who was involved as an accessory, or worse, and so there is still potential culpability there.

BBM for focus

I was trying to write a response to this thread last night using nearly these exact same words, but I couldn't get it to come out right.

I may still be unable to do so, but I am going to try.

I don't agree with the thread title either, because IMO no one can "make" another person do anything, except under physical force, which was clearly not the case here.

Michelle might have told Conrad to get back in the truck, but she could not and did not "make" him do it. He did it of his own volition.

My perspective stems from having one of my best friends commit suicide and agonizing over what I woulda/coulda/shoulda done, or not done, to prevent it. All the materials I consulted that were aimed at suicide survivors emphasized that no one can be held responsible for the actions of another.

I won't belabor the point but I doubt anyone can think of a situation in which "But Officer, xyz made me do it" is a valid defense.

Similarly, how many parents here would accept their child trying to excuse bad behavior with "Susie made me do it"? I expect the more typical response would be "If Susie told you to jump off the roof, would you do it?"

I am not minimizing what at this point appears to be Michelle's reprehensible treatment of Conrad in his state of desperation. Whether that treatment equates to legal culpability in his death will be decided in a courtroom, and IMO that's as it should be.

But IMO there's no way she "made" him commit suicide.

 

[believe09]

Is it possible that his family is looking for someone to blame because they're just so distraught?

Sadly, if this goes to court, I'll bet the defense will have texts about how terrible his parents are to blame them for why he was depressed.

We need to see all texts, not just selected texts by various journalists. Perhaps there are other texts that were published on these days and dates. We could pull all texts we find quoted in articles and try to get an idea of the contexts.

Respectfully snipped. The DA brought these charges, not the parents. But I would like to know when the Roy family knew the police were building the case.

 

[believe09]

Did Carter know the who, what, why, when and how of Conrad's suicide plan? Check.

Could she have changed the course of it with a simple call to his family or law enforcement? Check

Did she know her actions were wrong? Check.

Did she shine the spotlight on herself after her participation in his suicide? Check.

The question is whether or not it was legal for her to do those things. She was 17. She knew to call someone to get help for him. If she had been gathering as much information regarding his plan so that she could reveal all, that would be one thing. For her to assist in orchestrating it and then brag to others that she listened to him die and to concede that if her full participation was known she would go to jail...certainly seems like she was aware of how her actions played in to this situation.

I agree with the poster who said if Conrad was a student at KPHS, there would be more of a reaction perhaps. I guess it might depend on where Carter fits into the social strata of that area to see if influence is playing a role. Her friends knew her as a girl who cried wolf, a liar and someone desperate for attention.

She was not a child who maybe didnt have the tools to handle this. jmvho. I am fascinated with the argument that you cant charge someone for being immoral. I am fascinated with the assisted suicide argument as well. She was deliberately negligent. At a minimum. Her continued pursuit of his family during the critical hours of this case is nothing short of sadistic imvho. At a minimum it is self aggrandizing and ultimately cruel.

She was right about two things-his devastated family hates her and she may very well be going to jail.

If Conrad had brittle bone disease and she deliberately pushed him down a flight of stairs, how does this argument work? She's sorry she pushed him but after all it was his disease that ultimately contributed to any injury he suffered?

 

[Hoosgirl]

His poor family.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_op...nis_grieving_mother_ponders_different_way_for

 

[Hoosgirl]

The two "studied together" to make sure the machine would emit enough carbon monoxide to kill him.

http://m.southcoasttoday.com/article/20150228/News/150229440