MA - Four children found hidden in apartment with alcohol, drugs, sex toys & corpse - Boston - June 21 2023

[Keane]

Sure. The McCormack (formerly the Old Harbor Housing Project) was completed in the late 30s and was part of the New Deal.
It's notorious for being the project where Whitey Bulger grew up and also was embroiled in the busing controversy in the 70s.

In recent years, a $1.6B dollar and 15 year redevelopment initiative was launched, though it is behind schedule and still the 'Community Review' stage.

From the Redevelopment Initiative website at https://www.memredevelopment.com/info: the MEM "is currently home to 1,016 subsidized apartments in 22 buildings and 152 row houses. All are nearly 80 years old and well past their useful life. Bedroom sizes are sub-standard. Basic amenities are antiquated, and there are few services for residents."

From Boston Agent https://bostonagentmagazine.com/2021/06/29/south-boston-housing-project-to-undergo-massive-redevelopment/: "All of the development’s units have sub-standard bedroom sizes and lack modern features including laundry, dishwashers, air conditioning, secured entry intercoms, modern security, elevators and accessible units."

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Reading between the lines, I wonder if the seriously unsanitary conditions related to drug use / drug paraphernalia, especially if relating to very specific types of drug (that could cause a cardiac arrest). Even the fumes of certain drugs are considered to be too toxic to live in a home with until there's been a clean up. Children aren't usually removed from custody due to a dirty home unless it's completely off the charts filthy and there's maybe no running water and flushing toilet IMO.

Maybe the adults in question had gathered together to party and socialise, that drugs were part of it, and then sadly someone when into a medical crisis and subsequently passed away as a result of taking the drug? What they were wearing and their gender identity / sexuality is beside the point IMO.

Whether or not they're habitual users / addicts who routinely gather to use drugs is more interesting to know, whether they were hosting or participating in a sex party or sex working would be interesting to know simply as it would lean towards being inappropriate and maybe child neglect.

Whether those children are woefully neglected day in day out whilst people come and go using seriously heavy drugs, whether this was a home or a crack house or a flop house, or if this was a fairly average home having a one off party where really nobody was doing anything much and maybe there was a bit of weed and booze, is stuff I'm personally curious to know. We may not get to find out?

JMO MOO

 

[tlcya]

Police also disputed the description of the conditions in the apartment.

"Information that drugs and other concerning materials were strewn about the home is not supported by what officers encountered or by the information received on scene," the department wrote.
Police dispute sordid details of Boston case where 4 kids were found

 

[lonetraveler]

Wow. Well, if it was all made up, I seriously do hope someone sues the living snot out of all of them.

On the other hand, if it was NOT made up, I don't even know how we'll ever know for sure. Pics or video from Boston EMS or Boston Fire, first on the scene before Boston PD. Or, maybe in the written report for DCF, those things are mentioned? I mean, the kids WERE taken and I don't see why they would be unless they were actually in some sort of unhealthy setting.

It'd be nice if the folks from Boston EMS put out a statement or something toclear this up, but I can certainly see why they may not want to.

Boston politicians ‘come together’ to rescue drug-ridden Southie housing complex

An apparent overdose near four children in a rundown South Boston apartment has politicians calling for an immediate cleanup of the drug activity and squatting that had already been proliferating a…

www.bostonherald.com

At least a cleanup of the apartment complex is beginning. Appears there is a lot of drugs in the area.

 

[Bodhi]

Sometimes the coverage is the story. This is one of those times. I agree with @tlcya.

I appreciate that WebSleuths is victim-friendly. It's why I engage here. Yet even here the persistence of misinformation debunked by the investigating agency among people pre-disposed to respect the victim shows you can't unring the bell. Among the general public, the salacious but incorrect details will long be remembered and used as a case in point to substantiate an already vulnerable group of people are child predators.

The Herald headline used as the title to the thread days after it was debunked by Boston police appears inconsistent with the victim-friendly spirit that brings us to this forum. It bolsters disinformation and seems detrimental to productive discussion IMO.

I believe the police account because it is the official information from the investigating agency. People who accept the premise in the salacious headline that something tawdry or nefarious was going on will continue to put stock in it. That's fine. I see it as disinformation; I find discussing disinformation as if it is legitimate fans the flames.

Going over the same ground is overwhelming for me since I live with the growing legislative efforts to marginalize vulnerable groups and the increasingly brazen threats encountered in daily life. I am going to try to step back and respect the privacy and dignity of those involved until/unless something definitive substantiates the mischaracterization of an untimely death. I hope you will read my explanation for stepping back with the generosity WS is known for.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Police also disputed the description of the conditions in the apartment.

"Information that drugs and other concerning materials were strewn about the home is not supported by what officers encountered or by the information received on scene," the department wrote.
Police dispute sordid details of Boston case where 4 kids were found

It's come up many many times but I have to still say, while I believe BPD's description of the scene when they arrived, I also know from their own reports, they were not first on scene. Boston EMS and Boston FD arrived first, in that order.

So that doesn't really clear anything up. Just the opposite, really.

jmo

 

[tlcya]

It's come up many many times but I have to still say, while I believe BPD's description of the scene when they arrived, I also know from their own reports, they were not first on scene. Boston EMS and Boston FD arrived first, in that order.

So that doesn't really clear anything up. Just the opposite, really.

jmo

so they didn't witness anything. the above statement also indicates that those things were not supported ". . . by the information received on scene,"

per the first sentence of the BFD narrative, EMS was already present when BFD arrived. later it states . .

Boston Police and Boston EMS were on scene.

If the firefighters saw such things one would think they would call it to the attention of the BPD - who according to their own narrative - were also on the scene (presumably at some point at the same time they were regardless of who arrived first.)

I respect that your opinion differs, and we are clearly never going to agree on those points. I think we have both adequately stated our positions and so I am agreeing to disagree and moving on to other threads I feel warrant my attention more.

 

[Ontario Mom]

so they didn't witness anything. the above statement also indicates that those things were not supported ". . . by the information received on scene,"

per the first sentence of the BFD narrative, EMS was already present when BFD arrived. later it states . .

Boston Police and Boston EMS were on scene.

If the firefighters saw such things one would think they would call it to the attention of the BPD - who according to their own narrative - were also on the scene (presumably at some point at the same time they were regardless of who arrived first.)

I respect that your opinion differs, and we are clearly never going to agree on those points. I think we have both adequately stated our positions and so I am agreeing to disagree and moving on to other threads I feel warrant my attention more.

I think it's important to have the facts, and this isn't my opinion it's what the reports state.

"Wu said on WBUR’s Radio Boston Monday that police arrived about 30 minutes after EMS and firefighters to begin the death investigation. “And then the fire department left at that point,” Wu said. “If you look at the reports of the first responders there is no reason to question the integrity of any of our agencies and the words that they put into those reports. Each of them works to save lives and to ensure the safety of all involved.”

Boston politicians ‘come together’ to rescue drug-ridden Southie housing complex

An apparent overdose near four children in a rundown South Boston apartment has politicians calling for an immediate cleanup of the drug activity and squatting that had already been proliferating a…

www.bostonherald.com

 

[Ontario Mom]

There's some really important information in this article:

"Murphy said Dillon was present at Monday’s tour, and told her that firefighters continue to stand by their report, which he said Friday was “100% accurate.” The Herald has heard city councilors requested body camera footage, but their request was denied by the mayor and Police Commissioner Michael Cox. “It’s going to continue to be rumors if we don’t have access to the facts,” Murphy said. The police reports, the EMT trip ticket and the body cam are all evidence that we should all have access to, so that we are not spreading rumors and that we’re not being conspiracy theorists. That’s not at all what we want to do.” She added, “I’m just grateful that the children are in a safe space and hoping that we can move forward from this, but we need to make sure that our government is transparent. The people deserve that.” Boston politicians ‘come together’ to rescue drug-ridden Southie housing complex

I can only assume access to the bodycam footage (and I'm sure glad it exists) is due to this being an ongoing investigation. More than likely, that's also the reason the BFD incident report hasn't been officially released to the public.

jmo

 

[Keane]

And who started the 'rumors' and 'conspiracy theories,' Ms. Murphy? *sigh*

 

[lonetraveler]

There's some really important information in this article:

"Murphy said Dillon was present at Monday’s tour, and told her that firefighters continue to stand by their report, which he said Friday was “100% accurate.” The Herald has heard city councilors requested body camera footage, but their request was denied by the mayor and Police Commissioner Michael Cox. “It’s going to continue to be rumors if we don’t have access to the facts,” Murphy said. The police reports, the EMT trip ticket and the body cam are all evidence that we should all have access to, so that we are not spreading rumors and that we’re not being conspiracy theorists. That’s not at all what we want to do.” She added, “I’m just grateful that the children are in a safe space and hoping that we can move forward from this, but we need to make sure that our government is transparent. The people deserve that.” Boston politicians ‘come together’ to rescue drug-ridden Southie housing complex

I can only assume access to the bodycam footage (and I'm sure glad it exists) is due to this being an ongoing investigation. More than likely, that's also the reason the BFD incident report hasn't been officially released to the public.

jmo

I have to also think that the children have been interviewed and may have revealed things that LE have to consider. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Sometimes the coverage is the story. This is one of those times. I agree with @tlcya.

I appreciate that WebSleuths is victim-friendly. It's why I engage here. Yet even here the persistence of misinformation debunked by the investigating agency among people pre-disposed to respect the victim shows you can't unring the bell. Among the general public, the salacious but incorrect details will long be remembered and used as a case in point to substantiate an already vulnerable group of people are child predators.

The Herald headline used as the title to the thread days after it was debunked by Boston police appears inconsistent with the victim-friendly spirit that brings us to this forum. It bolsters disinformation and seems detrimental to productive discussion IMO.

I believe the police account because it is the official information from the investigating agency. People who accept the premise in the salacious headline that something tawdry or nefarious was going on will continue to put stock in it. That's fine. I see it as disinformation; I find discussing disinformation as if it is legitimate fans the flames.

Going over the same ground is overwhelming for me since I live with the growing legislative efforts to marginalize vulnerable groups and the increasingly brazen threats encountered in daily life. I am going to try to step back and respect the privacy and dignity of those involved until/unless something definitive substantiates the mischaracterization of an untimely death. I hope you will read my explanation for stepping back with the generosity WS is known for.

so they didn't witness anything. the above statement also indicates that those things were not supported ". . . by the information received on scene,"

per the first sentence of the BFD narrative, EMS was already present when BFD arrived. later it states . .

Boston Police and Boston EMS were on scene.

If the firefighters saw such things one would think they would call it to the attention of the BPD - who according to their own narrative - were also on the scene (presumably at some point at the same time they were regardless of who arrived first.)

I respect that your opinion differs, and we are clearly never going to agree on those points. I think we have both adequately stated our positions and so I am agreeing to disagree and moving on to other threads I feel warrant my attention more.

Very eloquently said, @tlcya and @Bodhi! I, too, believe the official police account.

JMO

 

[IDK]

I have to also think that the children have been interviewed and may have revealed things that LE have to consider. JMO

Agreed, because they are the victims, after all. Obviously there were legitimate concerns, or they would not have been taken into care. Children are not removed from their parents on a whim, there needs to be a specific cause or concern. IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Agreed, because they are the victims, after all. Obviously there were legitimate concerns, or they would not have been taken into care. Children are not removed from their parents on a whim, there needs to be a specific cause or concern. IMO.

I think MA law does allow CFS to take immediate custody. It does not mean the state still has custody because the information is protected under privacy laws.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

And who started the 'rumors' and 'conspiracy theories,' Ms. Murphy? *sigh*

And so it goes........

JMO

 

[fred&edna]

Jmo from what I've read (so far)...

It's entirely possible that a news reporter/outlet (or both) very negatively embellished headlines.

The Boston Mayor Michelle Wu says there's no reason to doubt either report... mentioning the different roles of both BPD and BFD, as well as the time each agency arrived/was present. BPD stated that drugs and other concerning materials were not what their officers encountered. So, I think Mayor Wu is likely correct as I don't think it would take too long for a few adults to stash drugs and other materials within the small apartment.

Per the BPD report, there was something in the "nature of the call" that caused the BPD to file a 51A. Thus, it's likely something concerning (unsafe for children) occurred in that apartment.

 

[RANCH]

Sometimes the coverage is the story. This is one of those times. I agree with @tlcya.

I appreciate that WebSleuths is victim-friendly. It's why I engage here. Yet even here the persistence of misinformation debunked by the investigating agency among people pre-disposed to respect the victim shows you can't unring the bell. Among the general public, the salacious but incorrect details will long be remembered and used as a case in point to substantiate an already vulnerable group of people are child predators.

The Herald headline used as the title to the thread days after it was debunked by Boston police appears inconsistent with the victim-friendly spirit that brings us to this forum. It bolsters disinformation and seems detrimental to productive discussion IMO.

I believe the police account because it is the official information from the investigating agency. People who accept the premise in the salacious headline that something tawdry or nefarious was going on will continue to put stock in it. That's fine. I see it as disinformation; I find discussing disinformation as if it is legitimate fans the flames.

Going over the same ground is overwhelming for me since I live with the growing legislative efforts to marginalize vulnerable groups and the increasingly brazen threats encountered in daily life. I am going to try to step back and respect the privacy and dignity of those involved until/unless something definitive substantiates the mischaracterization of an untimely death. I hope you will read my explanation for stepping back with the generosity WS is known for.

I'm trying to find a reason to give the police account more weight and the fire account no weight at all and I have come up empty. JMO.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

Glad to see that the Congressmember for their district is looking into the situation with the goal of getting the facts about what happened. I hoped that something like this would happen, since the Mayor, City Council, BFD, and BPD all seem to be at odds over what transpired and aren't necessarily working on behalf of the best interests of the children involved.

<modsnip - off topic>

IMO, that same congresswoman was the one who injected some extra language into the situation. What is her angle?

 

[Sundog]

IMO, that same congresswoman was the one who injected some extra language into the situation. What is her angle?

The Congressmember I am referring to is a male, not a female.

Edited to add link -

Mass. Congressman demands answers in South Boston apartment investigation

www.boston25news.com

 

[mooseandcoffee]

Well, let's see here, we have first responders arriving, besides being very unsanitary, sex toys and drug related items lying around the apartment, a dead person on the floor, a cry for help heard and consequentially children found being hidden in the backroom after men in the apartment claiming that children were not in the apartment......................If Child Services were not called, then people have a lot to explain. If you think of all of the child abuse cases we all have followed, there is more evidence here to call child services than a lot of the cases. JMO

Except much of that is in question.