MA - Lindsay Clancy, Strangled 3 Children in Murder/Suicide Attempt, Duxbury, Jan 2023

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Thanks for all of this. ^^^
I find it interesting, albeit sad.

As far as this case, it's important ( to myself as a layperson and not a pysch. professional ) : Was LC conscious of what she was doing ?
The deaths of these babies haunt me.

I am listening to two podcasts , one dealing with DD and the other about BM's case !
Imo.
Relevant to this comment, but also to the broader topic of dissociation and dissociative disorders in general, this guide from Mind UK is very comprehensive while being accessible to those who know nothing about the conditions. It's not just that first page. There are links down the side and at the bottom to tab you on to the further parts. If you have any questions that I or @BeginnerSleuther didn't answer to your satisfaction yesterday, this is a very good place to start. It's also up to date - according to the bottom of the page, the last revision of the information contained within the guide was in January of this year. The links for support and services are UK based, of course, but the information on the conditions is applicable to people with dissociative disorders everywhere.

https://www.mind.org.uk/information...nd-dissociative-disorders/about-dissociation/
 
Correct. But I know IDK is genuinely curious and have appreciated interacting with him/her on other subjects, so I will provide some context and a link as well. AND I'll connect it to Lindsay Clancy's case since that's why we're all here.

This is a very controversial topic and I hope that Lindsay Clancy's attorneys don't go to court with this defense. It always does more harm than good in public perception, IMO, without cause. Where the lay public gets confused is that a person taking antidepressants can become activated, usually if they're on the bipolar spectrum. So for example, say that Lindsay had undiagnosed bipolar disorder (which is correlated with PPP). Part of bipolar is mania. So think of mania as the exact opposite of depressed. Ok, so say Lindsay's psychiatrist put her on an antidepressant, not realizing she's bipolar. It could cause Lindsay to become activated and switch from depression to mania. What are the symptoms of mania? In some cases, violence. In some cases, psychosis. So did the antidepressant cause the violence? I'd say no. The antidepressant did what it was supposed to do -- make her not depressed. But unfortunately, for someone with bipolar, they can't regulate their mood, so they go from one extreme to another. So the antidepressant would have exacerbated her illness and that's what caused the violence. This distinction is important because the drug is not causing the violence. Antidepressants don't cause homicidal ideation, IMO, based on the evidence we have (they can cause suicidal ideation in people under age 25, which has to do with the developing brain, but Lindsay is over age 25 anyway). The studies that say otherwise aren't taking the patient's baseline and/or co-morbidities into account.

One thing I will say is that there are some psych drugs that can cause irritability and in some cases, aggression. High doses of ADHD medications, one particular seizure medication, and meds in other drug categories can do this, but as far as I know, LC wasn't on any of these. Still, there are no legitimate studies I'm aware of that show they cause homicidal ideation in someone who lacks the co-morbidities or baseline risk discussed above. Irritability and aggression don't generally rise to homicidal ideation.

Here's a link from the peer-reviewed Psychiatric Times.

I am a verified mental health professional on this site as well.

I would like to share a personal story and my experience with clients.

First personally, I did have PERSONAL experience with an antidepressant (Wellbutrin) that make me borderline homicidal. Thankfully I realized the changes and ceased the medication STAT. On the medication I became very violent and would not be able to control my violent urges. (I am as non-violent as they come so this was scary af). I started throwing things at my husband, broke furniture and started scheming ways to physically hurt him that would hopefully not lead to me getting arrested and taken from my children. I do not have bipolar, this medication did not cause me to become manic. If I had not had not ceased the medication I have no idea how far my violent behavior would have went. I was not manic, I displayed no symptoms of mania. The only change was violent, intrusive thoughts that would become urges that I was unable to NOT act on.

Second, I have had more than one client that I have had to help get inpatient after starting a new antidepressant and they not only became a danger to themselves some of them shared active plans to hurt others. None of these clients had bipolar diagnoses.

In my case and these client cases it was more than irritability and aggression. We were a true danger to others.

ETA: Name of medication (Wellbutrin) that affected me. The two medications that had this affect on clients that I can remember were Prozac and Zoloft.
 
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I am a verified mental health professional on this site as well.

I would like to share a personal story and my experience with clients.

First personally, I did have PERSONAL experience with an antidepressant (Wellbutrin) that make me borderline homicidal. Thankfully I realized the changes and ceased the medication STAT. On the medication I became very violent and would not be able to control my violent urges. (I am as non-violent as they come so this was scary af). I started throwing things at my husband, broke furniture and started scheming ways to physically hurt him that would hopefully not lead to me getting arrested and taken from my children. I do not have bipolar, this medication did not cause me to become manic. If I had not had not ceased the medication I have no idea how far my violent behavior would have went. I was not manic, I displayed no symptoms of mania. The only change was violent, intrusive thoughts that would become urges that I was unable to NOT act on.

Second, I have had more than one client that I have had to help get inpatient after starting a new antidepressant and they not only became a danger to themselves some of them shared active plans to hurt others. None of these clients had bipolar diagnoses.

In my case and these client cases it was more than irritability and aggression. We were a true danger to others.

ETA: Name of medication (Wellbutrin) that affected me. The two medications that had this affect on clients that I can remember were Prozac and Zoloft.

Respectfully, as a verified counselor, you are not a physician so while you may be an expert at trauma counseling, you are not an expert at medication management. My years of knowledge through medical school, residency, fellowship, and as a practicing physician who prescribes these medications every day and sees patients in the outpatient and inpatient setting, including ones that need to be started/switched/discontinued/tapered, have taught me what I am speaking about.
 
I am a verified mental health professional on this site as well.

I would like to share a personal story and my experience with clients.

First personally, I did have PERSONAL experience with an antidepressant (Wellbutrin) that make me borderline homicidal. Thankfully I realized the changes and ceased the medication STAT. On the medication I became very violent and would not be able to control my violent urges. (I am as non-violent as they come so this was scary af). I started throwing things at my husband, broke furniture and started scheming ways to physically hurt him that would hopefully not lead to me getting arrested and taken from my children. I do not have bipolar, this medication did not cause me to become manic. If I had not had not ceased the medication I have no idea how far my violent behavior would have went. I was not manic, I displayed no symptoms of mania. The only change was violent, intrusive thoughts that would become urges that I was unable to NOT act on.

Second, I have had more than one client that I have had to help get inpatient after starting a new antidepressant and they not only became a danger to themselves some of them shared active plans to hurt others. None of these clients had bipolar diagnoses.

In my case and these client cases it was more than irritability and aggression. We were a true danger to others.

ETA: Name of medication (Wellbutrin) that affected me. The two medications that had this affect on clients that I can remember were Prozac and Zoloft.
Thank you for your experience and knowledge.
I did not have good experiences with Wellbutrin either.
I have a neuro-psychology friend who is very good at explaining a person's biochemistry for psychological examples, and your post made me think about that.
Everyone's biochemistry is the same, but there are tiny individual differences because of our biochemistry, which is affected by genes, social-cultural, and environmental pressures. Meaning our bodies react differently to even more biochemical changes (as in medication).
Everyone reacts differently because of our individual biochemistry.
Very much JMO
 
Here is the MA court look up tool, but it is not working for me. I don’t know if someone else might have better luck. It’s Plymouth County, District court. Case # 2359CR000153. Edit to add case info.


Ok finally got it to work and under status is shows Special Suspension. Maybe due LC’s mental or physical status? Does anyone else know what Special Suspension means?
 
Ok finally got it to work and under status is shows Special Suspension. Maybe due LC’s mental or physical status? Does anyone else know what Special Suspension means?
Not sure, but physical and mental status seems appropriate. Else, waiting on grand jury.

As part of the defense, Reddington also sought to keep Clancy at the Boston-area hospital where she is currently be treated, and avoid having her transferred to Lemuel Shattuck Hospital, citing the facility’s conditions.

He noted that Lindsay Clancy was not capable of walking, and also in need of 24/7 medical care, suggesting she be transferred to a rehabilitative hospital as her recovery continues.

Towards the end of the proceedings, the presiding judge decided not to set monetary bail for Clancy, ordering that she remain in the hospital she is currently in until medically cleared to move to a new facility.

She was also ordered to continue to receive mental health treatment throughout her recovery.


A probable cause hearing was scheduled for Tuesday, May 2. The case will likely go to a grand jury for indictment, though, as such an indictment is required to get a first degree murder case to superior court.

 
Apparently Lindsay Clancy has been transferred to Tewksbury State Hospital:


“Doctors at the Department of Mental Health hospital last week indicated they were conducting a mental health evaluation of Clancy at the Tewksbury facility and that they wanted more time to assess her, according to Plymouth District Court records.

A hearing was to be held at Lowell District Court, but it was not clear Monday whether the DMH-requested hearing has already been held. The next court date for the Plymouth courthouse, where Clancy faces three counts of first degree murder, was delayed until July 25, suggesting the hearing has already been held, records show.”
 
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I am a verified mental health professional on this site as well.

I would like to share a personal story and my experience with clients.

First personally, I did have PERSONAL experience with an antidepressant (Wellbutrin) that make me borderline homicidal. Thankfully I realized the changes and ceased the medication STAT. On the medication I became very violent and would not be able to control my violent urges. (I am as non-violent as they come so this was scary af). I started throwing things at my husband, broke furniture and started scheming ways to physically hurt him that would hopefully not lead to me getting arrested and taken from my children. I do not have bipolar, this medication did not cause me to become manic. If I had not had not ceased the medication I have no idea how far my violent behavior would have went. I was not manic, I displayed no symptoms of mania. The only change was violent, intrusive thoughts that would become urges that I was unable to NOT act on.

Second, I have had more than one client that I have had to help get inpatient after starting a new antidepressant and they not only became a danger to themselves some of them shared active plans to hurt others. None of these clients had bipolar diagnoses.

In my case and these client cases it was more than irritability and aggression. We were a true danger to others.

ETA: Name of medication (Wellbutrin) that affected me. The two medications that had this affect on clients that I can remember were Prozac and Zoloft.
"Thankfully I realized the changes and ceased the medication STAT."

A normal person would recognize the feeling of anger, and possible violent tendencies, then would stop the medication. Did Lindsay not understand these abrupt changes in her thinking and ever stop medications that turned her into a zombie?

I took Wellbutrin once for health reasons. I wanted it to be a cure all. After several days on the drug W, I felt like I could pick up my home and toss it into the Atlantic Ocean. The irritation and aggression was not normal for me. It was frightening to have thoughts of how powerfully strong I thought I'd become. Has anyone been successful at lifting their home from the ground and tossing it into the air? I stopped the Wellbutrin and quickly returned to my normal self.

I don't understand why Lindsay didn't stop medications when she felt the urge to murder her babies. She'd felt that way for a year, if I recall correctly, and voiced those desires to kill the children to her husband during that time period.

If a few doses of Wellbutrin made me feel extreme aggression, imagine taking these:

According to her case file, Clancy was prescribed a mixture of SSRI antidepressants, or specific serotonin reuptake inhibators, benzodiazepines and antipsychotic and antiseizure drugs in the months leading up to the killings. These included Prozac, Zoloft, Trazodone, Seroquel, Amitryptiline, Remeron, Valium, Klonopin, Ativan and Lamictal.

Isn't Lamictal prescribed for bipolar? How many of those drugs make one sleepy?
https://www.ctinsider.com/news/article/lindsay-clancy-ct-children-deaths-medications-17772140.php

Reddington argued that Lindsay’s mental health was so poor that she required a 24/7 guardian in her hospital room. He explained that Lindsay, who worked as a labor and delivery nurse at Massachusetts General Hospital, suffered from postpartum depression or psychosis. Lindsay, he explained, was overmedicated on a dozen prescription drugs that made her “a zombie.”
https://www.courttv.com/news/massachusetts-mom-accused-of-strangling-her-3-kids-transfers-hospitals/

A paraplegic with serious mental disorders that requires 24/7 care may not live for very long.

JMO
 
Thing is, doctors will also ask that the patient not stop a medication abruptly, but rather to work with them to taper off if a med isn’t working. It can be difficult for a person to tell whether their meds are causing a change in thinking, or if it’s the underlying depression or anxiety that’s to blame. Even the right meds can take weeks to months to kick in and work properly.
 
I am a verified mental health professional on this site as well.

I would like to share a personal story and my experience with clients.

First personally, I did have PERSONAL experience with an antidepressant (Wellbutrin) that make me borderline homicidal. Thankfully I realized the changes and ceased the medication STAT. On the medication I became very violent and would not be able to control my violent urges. (I am as non-violent as they come so this was scary af). I started throwing things at my husband, broke furniture and started scheming ways to physically hurt him that would hopefully not lead to me getting arrested and taken from my children. I do not have bipolar, this medication did not cause me to become manic. If I had not had not ceased the medication I have no idea how far my violent behavior would have went. I was not manic, I displayed no symptoms of mania. The only change was violent, intrusive thoughts that would become urges that I was unable to NOT act on.

Second, I have had more than one client that I have had to help get inpatient after starting a new antidepressant and they not only became a danger to themselves some of them shared active plans to hurt others. None of these clients had bipolar diagnoses.

In my case and these client cases it was more than irritability and aggression. We were a true danger to others.

ETA: Name of medication (Wellbutrin) that affected me. The two medications that had this affect on clients that I can remember were Prozac and Zoloft.
wow. that is incredible and i thank you for telling us about that- its so important that this is talked about!

personally i've been lucky not to have to take any meds (yet!) but i've always been wary of how they can affect someone, esp with hormonal issues from birth etc.
 
“TEWKSBURY, Mass. — Lindsay Clancy, the Duxbury mother accused of murdering her three young children in their family’s home before attempting to take her own life, will remain committed at Tewksbury State Hospital.

Clancy waived her right to appear at Wednesday’s hearing, but both sides agreed she will remain at the state hospital for up to the next six months, where she will undergo extended mental health care.

The Section 18 hold is until November 10, 2023.”


“Her next case status hearing is set for July 25, and she will remain held without bail.”


“Section 18: Hospitalization of mentally ill prisoners; examination; reports; hearing; commitment; petition for transfer to inpatient psychiatric facility or unit licensed or operated by the department of mental health or to Bridgewater state hospital; voluntary admission; reduction of sentence; discharge.”

 
My heart breaks for this woman, her grieving husband, the lives of her sweet children cut short.
I believe MOO that she will have permanent physical disabilities, but that isn’t even close to what I’m fundamentally saying, which is: once the meds and counseling work - she will convict herself 100x over. Whatever life she has left will metaphorically be spent in Dante’s Purgatorio, and her husband will convict himself too, forever, in a different way.
I also cannot imagine any kind of mental health care that will help her come to terms with waking up as a paraplegic who murdered her children. The magnitude of that loss and knowing she was also the cause of it...
I reviewed the first five or so pages of this thread. Apparently she slit her wrists and throat before she jumped; she clearly intended to take her own life. Did she also sustain any type of traumatic brain injury in her fall?
 
My heart breaks for this woman, her grieving husband, the lives of her sweet children cut short.

I also cannot imagine any kind of mental health care that will help her come to terms with waking up as a paraplegic who murdered her children. The magnitude of that loss and knowing she was also the cause of it...

I reviewed the first five or so pages of this thread. Apparently she slit her wrists and throat before she jumped; she clearly intended to take her own life. Did she also sustain any type of traumatic brain injury in her fall?
I don't believe any head injuries, except for the spinal injury that implied she would never walk again, IIRC. I agree with the bolded completely, I cannot imagine she will ever be happy again.
With or without being found guilty of murder, she will always be paying for what she did.
It is a devastating tragedy.
 

Lindsay Clancy Murder Trial: Can Husband Be Forced to Testify Against Wife Charged With Killing Children?​


Spouses usually cannot be compelled to testify against one another in court, but as divorce attorney Ken Jewell of Jewell Law, PLLC tells Inside Edition, there are some exceptions.

She has not yet entered a plea and is currently receiving mental health treatment at Tewksbury Hospital, according to court records. She will remain in the state-run hospital until November, but a status hearing in the case is set for Tuesday.
 

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