MA MA - Phillip Markoff, Craigslist Killer

[OrdinaryLife]

I give PM fiancee a *huge* break here. Can you even imagine, for one moment, the person that you love with all your heart and wanted to marry is a "person" you really never knew? This isn't denial, but digesting who you trusted. Believed in. Loved. This young woman deserves nothing less than compassion and patient understanding, imho. I think she deserves a break and some major slack. I feel for her....

Just wanted to put that out there.

 

[Trino]

Just my opinion and probably won't be a popular one....

It is not Craigslists' fault that someone used their ads to find their victims.

While we all know prostitution is illegal, the people that post for those types of services are very aware of the words to use to not get their post deleted for selling illegal "goods."

Part of their posting rules state "Do not advertise illegal activities or services. Selling of alcohol to a minor, prostitution or drug-related ads can all be subject to deletion." I am sure Craigslist cannot read every single ad to determine if it is for Prostitution of not.

Don't blame Craigslist for this act. Blame the Muderer. If the girls and or guys couldn't post on Craigslist they would find somewhere else to do it.

Those that have followed these types of cases have seen many murders where an ad was placed for Nanny services, used baby clothes, selling cars, etc. Should we now say Craigslist shouldn't allow those types of ads either?JMO

I don't believe I said Craig's List is responsible for this murder. What Craig's List is doing is advertising prostitution.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I don't believe I said Craig's List is responsible for this murder. What Craig's List is doing is advertising prostitution.

As much as I have issues with certain areas of Craigslist, they are not responsible for others deciding to meet strangers. I have several newspapers in my area and they will have ads that are for meeting/dating purposes. Craigslist is huge. From jobs, homes rentals, automobiles, and yes, personals. We make the choices to buy, rent, or meet people. Not Craigslist.

imho

 

[chicagofa13]

Ok, her 15 minutes are up with me. At this point she ceases being a victim and becomes an idiot. IMO of course.

 

[ella's mom]

I don't believe I said Craig's List is responsible for this murder. What Craig's List is doing is advertising prostitution.

Sorry if I misunderstood your post. You are right, here is your post (after newspaper link):

Craig's List founder, Craig Newman, WON'T close erotic section. I really hope someone goes after him. IMO what he's advertising is prostitution.

My new question is go after him for what? How can you prove they are advertising prostitution? I just did a search in craigslist for Boston massage.

The worst ad I saw was listed on Therapeutic services and said "Hot all american blond to give sensual massage - pique your interest? I know I am smart and sexy, what are the odds? Hit me up for all of the details."

Another says "Man to Man massage - Tuesday afternoon special $30"

Now could both of those ads be from Prostitutes? Of course, but could you prove it in a court of law, without some sort of bust beforehand? I doubt it.

It's not like someone is posting an ad saying "I am a prostitute and I charge $?? for such and such service."

JMO

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Call me cynical, but I can't help but wonder if through all this madness she's thinking...."there's a situation here, and if I play it right, I could come out a winner."...Oprah, Dr. Phil, book, etc.

Hiya, Cynical!

I have to respectfully disagree. This is a woman who has been devastated by the loss of a dream, a life, and her own self worth. She is probably grappling between beating herself up for not knowing and still trying to come to terms with loving him.

Many girlfriends/boyfriends, wives/husbands, and children of murderers go through the same tug of war with their emotions and have to face the facts eventually. The love doesn't end, but the realization sets in to allow them to come to grips with the situation. They are changed forever.

She will have to deal with the guilt and much trauma over why she didn't see it, why she couldn't stop it, and why he did the things he is accused of doing. She will have a tendency to blame herself in some way and try to put together what her role in this could be (yet she had no role in it at all nor could she have done anything to prevent the outcome).

I believe money and Oprah are the last things on her mind right now.

 

[Deborah1012]

It's so easy for a young woman to believe someone's BS excuses because they often very much want a relationship to work. I have no doubt that has happened with PM's fiance. I have every hope that she will come to her senses at some point and move on with her life.

One of my daughter's first boyfriends turned out to be a liar, deceiver about his own "identity". I was getting quite suspicious and googled his online name which she had told me previously. She was so willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but I knew something suspicious was going on with him. My first hit was a post where he was talking about being bisexual.

She confronted him but he lied his way through that without batting an eyelash. It took her a couple months and for more of his lies to finally sink in before she decided he was a complete waste of time and space. I laugh because he continues to lie online about his identity and lies about things online that he doesn't even need to lie about because no one online would even know him. Last post I saw from him he was saying "for the record, I'm a straight male". Yeah right. And no,he's not using the same online name but it was extremely easy to find out the couple of new names he's now using.

So I'm cutting the fiance a lot of slack and hoping she gets her "ah ha" moment and gets as fed up as we are all hoping she will.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Maybe it is time to make the oldest profession legal so they are not prey for every sicko wanting to take advantage of them including the pimps. (Waiting for the sky to fall on my head as I know this view is going to bring a bit of controversy...)

 

[FourWands]

Maybe it is time to make the oldest profession legal so they are not prey for every sicko wanting to take advantage of them including the pimps. (Waiting for the sky to fall on my head as I know this view is going to bring a bit of controversy...)

Cheers SeriouslySearching. Legalize it. License it. Tax it. In two years, we'll be saying "what deficit?".

 

[Trino]

Sorry if I misunderstood your post. You are right, here is your post (after newspaper link):

Craig's List founder, Craig Newman, WON'T close erotic section. I really hope someone goes after him. IMO what he's advertising is prostitution.

My new question is go after him for what? How can you prove they are advertising prostitution? I just did a search in craigslist for Boston massage.

The worst ad I saw was listed on Therapeutic services and said "Hot all american blond to give sensual massage - pique your interest? I know I am smart and sexy, what are the odds? Hit me up for all of the details."

Another says "Man to Man massage - Tuesday afternoon special $30"

Now could both of those ads be from Prostitutes? Of course, but could you prove it in a court of law, without some sort of bust beforehand? I doubt it.

It's not like someone is posting an ad saying "I am a prostitute and I charge $?? for such and such service." JMO

Even you know what these service are, don't you? Craig's List does not have to allow such advertising. He's making enough $ to not allow such ads.

 

[ella's mom]

Even you know what these service are, don't you? Craig's List does not have to allow such advertising. He's making enough $ to not allow such ads.

Yes, Trino, I do believe that is what they are advertising, it just can't be proven. I am just saying that he cannot control what is on there or have the manpower to go through every ad to determine if it is "prostitution" or not. I promise if Craigslist says ok no more advertising for massages, they (girls and guys offering their services) will find another way to advertise, either somewhere else or a new way. The next ad we'll see is gonna be "hot sexy blond personal trainer will give you work out of your life. Call for details."

Please don't take this as a personal attack against your opinion I am just trying to make a point on what was said, not just by you. Others said the same thing and so did the article basically.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Cheers SeriouslySearching. Legalize it. License it. Tax it. In two years, we'll be saying "what deficit?".

Whether it was licensed and taxed, it woukld not change the fact that there are deviant people out there messing with innocent people. Even if it were legalized, I do not believe anyone of them would point a finger st some "official john/joanne that they were abused by. Because it's business that they cannot afford to lose.

This sob murdered and hurt people. He is not "normal" of mind (not saying he's insane, believe me) and I have no doubt there are others out there. To have them come and state that they were is a professional problem for them. Let alone the personal side. This is the dark side and the risk/cost of it.

 

[ella's mom]

Maybe it is time to make the oldest profession legal so they are not prey for every sicko wanting to take advantage of them including the pimps. (Waiting for the sky to fall on my head as I know this view is going to bring a bit of controversy...)

I couldn't agree more. We are making this a dangerous profession by making it illegal. If you make it legal, the prostitutes will not be afraid to stand up for themselves when they are robbed, raped or beaten by a customer. Right now they are not comfortable doing so for fear of being arrested/charged for illegal work. A perfect example is the case below:

Sex Worker Reporting Sexual Assult by University of Michigan Professor is Charged with Misdemeanor.

http://www.safercampus.org/blog/?tag=university-of-michigan

Do you think that is going to make women want to come forward?

I am willing to bet there are more victims of PM, but they are too afraid to come forward because they do not want to get in trouble or for their line of work to be exposed to the Public.

JMO

 

[Columbo]

It's so easy for a young woman to believe someone's BS excuses because they often very much want a relationship to work. I have no doubt that has happened with PM's fiance. I have every hope that she will come to her senses at some point and move on with her life.

One of my daughter's first boyfriends turned out to be a liar, deceiver about his own "identity". I was getting quite suspicious and googled his online name which she had told me previously. She was so willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but I knew something suspicious was going on with him. My first hit was a post where he was talking about being bisexual.

She confronted him but he lied his way through that without batting an eyelash. It took her a couple months and for more of his lies to finally sink in before she decided he was a complete waste of time and space. I laugh because he continues to lie online about his identity and lies about things online that he doesn't even need to lie about because no one online would even know him. Last post I saw from him he was saying "for the record, I'm a straight male". Yeah right. And no,he's not using the same online name but it was extremely easy to find out the couple of new names he's now using.

So I'm cutting the fiance a lot of slack and hoping she gets her "ah ha" moment and gets as fed up as we are all hoping she will.

Bolded by me....This is sooooo true, Deborah!!

 

[Columbo]

Did anyone else happen to see the Dr. Phil show last night about the Craigslist murderer?

It was pretty interesting to hear how a defense lawyer, who was a guest on the show, thought the defense would handle this case. He says that "the only real evidence so far is a security video from the hotel where Julissa was killed !! PM was wearing a white shirt and he should have been covered in blood from the gunshot...." etc etc (All I saw in the video was PM wearing a black jacket--looks like his shirt was light colored)

In a weird way he's right--the duct tape fingerprints, fingerprints on the wall at the hotel, panties, gift cards, plastic ties--all have to be proven, DNA matched, etc. It's amazing how this defense lawyer could minimize these GLARING pieces of evidence in an attempt to make PM look innocent. He can excuse away every single bit of evidence! Amazing.

It's unbelievable the BS these people can produce. I think he is grasping at straws.

 

[SuziQ]

TCR EXCLUSIVE: Variations on a theme by "Craigslist" suspect Phil Markoff: sexaddict53885

Posted at 4:31 PM Apr 28, 2009

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/04/variations_on_a_theme_by_phil.php

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I don't understand why he was so careless. Did he want to get caught? or did he think he was so smart he would never get caught. For someone so "bright" didn't he realize using a computer would lead right back to him. Was he escalating out of control that he wasn't thinking properly about covering his tracts? Did he have a deep gambling and *advertiser censored* addiction that took over his life and he threw all caution to the wind? What has me deeply troubled is his behavior after he murdered someone...a few days later went gambling and robbed someone else. I just don't get it.

I wonder if he was conflicted about that himself. He is a bully who has pushed himself on one girl that we know of yet wants to be sexually submissive. He is arrogant yet those same sexual curiosities seem to indicate he wants to be put in his place. He proclaims his innocence yet attempts to kill himself.

He makes no sense to me. I wouldn't be surprised if he likes jail because it's the ultimate in domination, he doesn't have to look on Craigslist to find someone to dominator and the handcuffs are free. :bowdown::whip2: The only thing that he has to worry about is being completely isolated from the other inmates.

Now that I think about it, the attempt to hang himself was really this freak doing autoaphexia.:yuck: I don't think that I have ever felt so sorry for prison guards in my entire life.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

A large percentage of men seeking domination/humiliation are men in high powered positions. They like the idea of losing control to another and to lose control sexually makes them truly vulnerable... in those cases, being dominated gives them a bit of a "high".
The rest of the group are moderately successful men who feel inferior deep down and love having an attractive person call them on it. If someone they were not attracted to sought to humiliate them, they wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much.

(respectfully bolded and sniped by me)

Well considering that PM was going to be a doctor so he kinda fits into the first category. And since we know he was a bully and bully's usually have an inferiority complex he might fit into that second category too.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Snipped from your article...

But one thing they have not been able to find, they said, is Markoff's laptop.

Eh?! How have they not found the laptop? :waitasec: He hid it, I'm almost certain of it. I think he knew they were catching up with him, maybe not in enough time to do anything else, but I bet he ditched that thing like a hot potato. Makes you wonder what sorts of other evidence there is on it.

The unaccounted for laptop has me worried. If he knew that the police were closing in on him why would he ditch that and not all the other evidence? I can understand a twisted attachment to the underwear, but because they could have dna on them, wouldn't they be the most incriminating?

As for the gun, I doubt anyone would notice his was missing because not that many people would even know he had one.

If his laptop were missing someone would remember not seeing it or that they asked him why it was missing. Especially a fiancee. This leads me to wonder if she, for whatever reason, tossed it when he was arrested. That or someone else was in on it or trying to protect and the only evidence they could get to was the laptop.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

Did anyone else happen to see the Dr. Phil show last night about the Craigslist murderer?

It was pretty interesting to hear how a defense lawyer, who was a guest on the show, thought the defense would handle this case. He says that "the only real evidence so far is a security video from the hotel where Julissa was killed !! PM was wearing a white shirt and he should have been covered in blood from the gunshot...." etc etc (All I saw in the video was PM wearing a black jacket--looks like his shirt was light colored)

In a weird way he's right--the duct tape fingerprints, fingerprints on the wall at the hotel, panties, gift cards, plastic ties--all have to be proven, DNA matched, etc. It's amazing how this defense lawyer could minimize these GLARING pieces of evidence in an attempt to make PM look innocent. He can excuse away every single bit of evidence! Amazing.

It's unbelievable the BS these people can produce. I think he is grasping at straws.

It is scary. Its even scarier to think that there are a whole bunch of defense lawyers who do that same thing and they make a whole bunch of money doing it because they are good very.

I was catching up on my JVM and NG today and I think it was on NG that they talked about how defense lawyers are able to poke holes in scientific evidence. I don't remember how exactly they do it. (does anyone know what I am talking about... they were talking about a possible JB stratagy for KC.) But the point is they can.

But it makes sense. Its easier for jurors to trust visual evidence that they themselves analyze and interpret than it is for them to trust evidence that is analyzed by a computer and interpreted by an expert. Its way beyond scary.