MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #10

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Based on Trooper Paul’s testimony on JOK’s body’s movements after being struck by KR’s vehicle, how did his phone manage to stay in his pocket? Shouldn’t it have flung away somewhere instead of staying on his person?

Maybe I have missed this, where was cap found in reference to the curb and JOK? I would expect it to be close to the curb based on Trooper Tully’s testimony that JOK sadly struck his head on it?

If JOK was still wearing the cap when he struck the curb or it fell off near it, did forensics find on the cap any debris or material from it?
To further this thought, does anyone have a diagram or image mapping out where JO, his shoe, hat, parked cars, tail light fragments etc..were found in relation to each other?
 
To further this thought, does anyone have a diagram or image mapping out where JO, his shoe, hat, parked cars, tail light fragments etc..were found in relation to each other?
Hahaha, that's a good one :)

Seriously, that would require competent investigators. These guys could not even manage to get a picture of a broken taillight for several days.

Closest we got was from Trooper Paul on Friday. Check the last thread where they were posted several times Friday.
 
Agreed there is a lot of misreporting out there. I have been disappointed in CTV because I had higher expectations from them.

The problem is we have heard so very little real evidence from the CW to set us straight, thus all these questions keep coming up. Even with their one decent witness Friday, Ms. Hyde, she was so severely limited in her scope that we still have more questions than answers.

Very frustrating this far into a trial!

CourtTV, IMO, is only good for live trials and maybe some recaps. The talking heads are often completely uninformed about the cases they talk about.

I don't think the evidence from the CW is going to get much better. Their case has been smoke and mirrors from the start. The state reconstructionist is talking literal nonsense and will be eviscerated on the stand. For me at least, I could barely understand a word Ms. Hyde was saying. I wonder how and where the state found her. She's apparently a sole business owner and clearly not from the Boston area (didn't recognize the word "Hockomock" which is a sports league.) Did the CW have to search all over the country to find someone who would tell them what they wanted to hear? Did anyone on the jury understand her conclusions?

The defense will call a Cellebrite expert who will explain that she's wrong, and Jen M. did indeed search "Hos long" at 2:27. If this person makes sense, the jury will believe them over her.

The state's best (they hope) and final evidence will probably be Karen's voicemails they hope will convince the jury she's so crazy, she ranted endlessly to a man she'd just intentionally ran down and killed.

I'm trying to imagine Lally's whispered, meandering closing vs. Yannetti's (my guess is he'll be the one giving it) rational breakdown of the state's case, complete with discussion of the creation and destruction of evidence used to frame his client. I don't see this one being close.

PS - where the heck is the ME?
 
Hahaha, that's a good one :)

Seriously, that would require competent investigators. These guys could not even manage to get a picture of a broken taillight for several days.

Closest we got was from Trooper Paul on Friday. Check the last thread where they were posted several times Friday.
Yeah - I was thinking if there was something, it would come from someone here - certainly not LE!
 
CourtTV, IMO, is only good for live trials and maybe some recaps. The talking heads are often completely uninformed about the cases they talk about.

I don't think the evidence from the CW is going to get much better. Their case has been smoke and mirrors from the start. The state reconstructionist is talking literal nonsense and will be eviscerated on the stand. For me at least, I could barely understand a word Ms. Hyde was saying. I wonder how and where the state found her. She's apparently a sole business owner and clearly not from the Boston area (didn't recognize the word "Hockomock" which is a sports league.) Did the CW have to search all over the country to find someone who would tell them what they wanted to hear? Did anyone on the jury understand her conclusions?

The defense will call a Cellebrite expert who will explain that she's wrong, and Jen M. did indeed search "Hos long" at 2:27. If this person makes sense, the jury will believe them over her.

The state's best (they hope) and final evidence will probably be Karen's voicemails they hope will convince the jury she's so crazy, she ranted endlessly to a man she'd just intentionally ran down and killed.

I'm trying to imagine Lally's whispered, meandering closing vs. Yannetti's (my guess is he'll be the one giving it) rational breakdown of the state's case, complete with discussion of the creation and destruction of evidence used to frame his client. I don't see this one being close.

PS - where the heck is the ME?

It’s honestly ridiculous the CW’s motion that 3 PhDs that are reconstructionists hired by the federal government aren’t experts but somehow Trooper Tully is one?
 
The whole trial is extremely depressing, isn't it?

We're never gonna know who killed him.
Or why.

Looking ahead and trying to imagine how the amnesiacs will move forward.

At least now everybody knows how easily they 'forget'-
everything.
 
It’s honestly ridiculous the CW’s motion that 3 PhDs that are reconstructionists hired by the federal government aren’t experts but somehow Trooper Tully is one?

The judge seemed incredulous that the defense hadn't spoken to these experts. She, of all people, should know why.

"Good morning, Mr./Ms. expert, have we ever spoken? No. And did we hire you to investigate this matter and complete a report?"

It's a beautiful way of avoiding the "hired gun" argument. Just because the judge won't let the defense mention the FBI doesn't mean they can't make it clear that these experts are independent and not hired to tell the defense what they want to hear.
 
I just gotta ask. Do they not have Uber or Lyft in Canton?

Yes, although it's not a big urban area so not so many, if any, in a snowstorm. Also, during the pandemic many drivers switched to food delivery only.

Not that these guys would have ever bothered to use them. They were all in a two mile radius from any of the locations here and had no fear of being pulled over.
 
This question is for the Guilties: (If you're a Not-Guilty, please feel free to scroll.)

Let's say you and the CW are 100% correct and KR, in a rage, purposefully hit JOK with her car and left him there to die. Also, if you are a G, you must be able to believe it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

I'd be curious to know how you feel about the many inconsistencies and just strange coincidences that have occurred in this case by so many of the individuals we have seen.

  • Why the deletion, destruction and disposal of so many cell phones?
  • Why wasn't the entire crime scene secured and investigated. Not the house, but the yard, both front and back?
  • Do you believe the main investigator was unbiased in his investigation?
  • How do you feel about the inverted sallyport video?
  • How do you feel about the rehoming and disappearance of Chloe?
  • Did you see JOK's vehicle move when KR hit it pulling out of the garage?
  • How do you feel about Colin's testimony and his clear evasion of the fact that his family was close to Courtney Proctor?
  • Could it be possible that the bruise on the back of his hand, the facial injuries and the marks on his arm might be indications of a fight and perhaps a dog biting him?
  • Do you feel comfortable that just about everyone in this case is a cop or family of a cop other than the defendant?
  • If you were a juror, do you feel, at this point, the CW has proven it's case beyond a reasonable doubt on manslaughter and/or Murder 2?
If you are a NG or an on-the-fencer, I'd love to hear any additional weird things that trouble you about the case.

TIA
 
Yes, although it's not a big urban area so not so many, if any, in a snowstorm. Also, during the pandemic many drivers switched to food delivery only.

Not that these guys would have ever bothered to use them. They were all in a two mile radius from any of the locations here and had no fear of being pulled over.
I live in a town quite similar to Canton, but outside the Chicago area. I can get an Uber or Lyft at my home within 10 minutes, any time day or night. It is just so irritating. Many of these are the same people who wouldn't think twice about locking someone like me or you up for DUI, yet they seem to have the "rules for thee but not me" attitude.

Also, it is like $10 to get an Uber. Yeah, it's a hassle to get your car the next day, but who cares? There is NO excuse to not have a DD or a rideshare at hand when going out drinking. Period. Yet none of these people seem to care, including KR and BOK.(and don't EVEN get me started on the Proctor/Albert drunken two hour drive back from the Cape in the police cruiser and the lost badge and gun fiasco!)

P.S. My anger isn't directed at the OP. It's at all of these fools.
 
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I was under the impression that since polycarbonate plastic was so impact-resistant, it more likely to shatter, scratch or crack than break off, particularly if weakened by exposure to substances, like those used for cleaning cars or oil.
RSBM
RBBM
This is why the white rag on the sallyport video was viewed as suspicious.
 
This whole taillight question, were the pieces planted or not, could be so easily solved! All the CW has to do is put Kerry Roberts back on the stand and show her the photo of the taillight taken Feb 1st in the Sallyport and ask "Is this how the taillight looked to you the morning of the 29th when KR showed it to you?"

I think everyone believed her testimony to be accurate and truthful so just ask her Lally! There must be a reason he does not ask this question, don't you think? He either knows the answer would not support the CW theory or else if he doesn't know, he is afraid to ask.
 
Live updates:

  • 4:35 p.m. Judge says she will decide over the weekend whether Trooper Paul can testify about the taillight damage.
  • 4:01 p.m. Paul says the damage to Read's taillight is not consistent with a low-speed collision with O'Keefe's vehicle. Paul says the vehicles' bumpers would have made contact instead of the taillights.
  • 3:55 p.m. Judge dismisses the jury for the day but continues with a voir dire hearing about the Ring camera video. Trooper Paul testifies that he does not see any snow fall from O'Keefe's vehicle when they come close or in contact.
  • 3:42 p.m. Lally wants to show Trooper Paul the Ring camera video of Read's SUV backing up in his driveway, when it comes close to or in contact with O'Keefe's car. Jackson objects. Sidebar.
  • 3:05 p.m. Paul says O'Keefe was thrown forward, then spun counter clockwise and fell backwards and hit his head.
  • 3 p.m. Paul says O'Keefe's injuries were also consistent with being hit by a vehicle.
  • 3 p.m. Paul says chart shows Read's vehicle travelled just over 97 feet in reverse. Says this data is "consistent with a pedestrian strike."
  • 2:30 p.m. Trooper Paul shows data from Read's Lexus SUV.
  • 1:50 p.m. Testimony resumes with Trooper Paul after lunch break.
  • 12:35 p.m. Trooper Paul points out that Fairview Rd is a double-laned road with a rounded curb on the side where the former Albert home is located and a sidewalk on the opposite side.
  • 12:30 p.m. The courtroom camera has been turned back on. Testimony resumes with Trooper Joe Paul, an crash reconstructionist who says he has investigated 196 crashes including about 55 involving pedestrians.
  • 12 p.m. David Yannetti begins cross-examination of Hyde. Asks if it's possible that the google search could have been done at 2:27am. Hyde says no indication of a Google search at that time.
  • 11:45 a.m. This backs up Jen McCabe's testimony that she used her phone to look up basketball info in the middle of the night, then used it after O'Keefe was found - at Read's request - to search for info about hypothermia.
  • 11:40 a.m. Hyde's bottom line: Search for sports was done at 2:27am and search for "hos long to die in cold" was done at 6:23am and 6:24am. She says no evidence of any purposeful deletions.
  • 11:07 a.m. Hyde says another search was initiated at 6:22:49am for info about how long to die in the cold. Then another at 6:23:51am.
  • 11:05 a.m. Hyde says she found a search for "hos long to die in cold" with timestamp at 2:27am. But says that timestamp "is not the time necessarily of this search." Says there's a high likelihood that the timestamp applies to when tab was opened for another sports-related search.
  • 10:55 a.m. Hyde says one of the tools found the phrase "hos long to die in cold."
  • 10:50 a.m. Hyde says she used one of the tools to focus on Safari history for the date 1/29/22.
  • 10:45 a.m. Hyde says she analyzed data from Jen McCabe's phone using multiple tools.
  • 10:35 a.m. Next prosecution witness: Jessica Hyde, owner of a digital forensics company called Hexordia.
  • 10:30 a.m. Judge notes that the juror is missing. Says the reasons is "personal" to that juror. Says they others should not consider it.
  • 10:16 a.m. The juror holds up her hand as if to have good-bye and exits the courtroom.
  • 10:15 a.m. Now the first juror is back for a third third trip to the bench.
  • 10:10 a.m. Now another one of the previously questioned jurors is back at sidebar for less than a minute and leaves again. I think she was the third one.
  • 10:05 a.m. Now the original juror who was brought in this morning has been brought back. She's back at the bench talking with judge and attorneys.
  • 9:57 a.m. Now a FOURTH juror has been brought in for private questioning by the judge.
  • 9:55 a.m. Now a THIRD juror has entered the courtroom and is speaking with the judge at sidebar. The juror is laughing and seems at ease. All three jurors brought in so far are women.
  • 9:50 a.m. Reminder: a male juror was dismissed earlier this week for "personal" reasons. There are currently 16 jurors on the panel.
  • 9:45 a.m. Now a different juror has been brought in for a private conversation with the judge and attorneys at sidebar. This is NOT the same juror as the one brought in earlier.
  • 9:35 a.m. Judge returns to the bench and calls attorney to sidebar. The courtroom camera is still off.
  • 9:20 a.m. The judge orders the courtroom camera turned off. The juror exits and the judge orders a recess. It's not yet clear why the juror was brought in. Nor if she is being dismissed.
  • 9:10 a.m. The judge enters and calls the attorneys to a sidebar. Then they bring in one of the jurors and are now speaking to her privately. The other jurors are absent.
  • Good morning. Day 25 of testimony. On Thursday, Lt. Brian Tully testified Read would have had enough time to return to house where she'd allegedly left John O'Keefe in the snow before going to ask for help to find him.
Did wcvb ever include info regarding the cross exam of Paul? The way this is summarized makes it appear that Paul was never challenged with the fact that he didn't even line up the two vehicles next to one another for measurement comparison.
Interesting.
 
CourtTV, IMO, is only good for live trials and maybe some recaps. The talking heads are often completely uninformed about the cases they talk about.

I don't think the evidence from the CW is going to get much better. Their case has been smoke and mirrors from the start. The state reconstructionist is talking literal nonsense and will be eviscerated on the stand. For me at least, I could barely understand a word Ms. Hyde was saying. I wonder how and where the state found her. She's apparently a sole business owner and clearly not from the Boston area (didn't recognize the word "Hockomock" which is a sports league.) Did the CW have to search all over the country to find someone who would tell them what they wanted to hear? Did anyone on the jury understand her conclusions?

The defense will call a Cellebrite expert who will explain that she's wrong, and Jen M. did indeed search "Hos long" at 2:27. If this person makes sense, the jury will believe them over her.

The state's best (they hope) and final evidence will probably be Karen's voicemails they hope will convince the jury she's so crazy, she ranted endlessly to a man she'd just intentionally ran down and killed.

I'm trying to imagine Lally's whispered, meandering closing vs. Yannetti's (my guess is he'll be the one giving it) rational breakdown of the state's case, complete with discussion of the creation and destruction of evidence used to frame his client. I don't see this one being close.

PS - where the heck is the ME?
I wonder if the ME will testify to being pressured into a homicide determination.
 
This question is for the Guilties: (If you're a Not-Guilty, please feel free to scroll.)

Let's say you and the CW are 100% correct and KR, in a rage, purposefully hit JOK with her car and left him there to die. Also, if you are a G, you must be able to believe it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

I'd be curious to know how you feel about the many inconsistencies and just strange coincidences that have occurred in this case by so many of the individuals we have seen.

  • Why the deletion, destruction and disposal of so many cell phones?
  • Why wasn't the entire crime scene secured and investigated. Not the house, but the yard, both front and back?
  • Do you believe the main investigator was unbiased in his investigation?
  • How do you feel about the inverted sallyport video?
  • How do you feel about the rehoming and disappearance of Chloe?
  • Did you see JOK's vehicle move when KR hit it pulling out of the garage?
  • How do you feel about Colin's testimony and his clear evasion of the fact that his family was close to Courtney Proctor?
  • Could it be possible that the bruise on the back of his hand, the facial injuries and the marks on his arm might be indications of a fight and perhaps a dog biting him?
  • Do you feel comfortable that just about everyone in this case is a cop or family of a cop other than the defendant?
  • If you were a juror, do you feel, at this point, the CW has proven it's case beyond a reasonable doubt on manslaughter and/or Murder 2?
If you are a NG or an on-the-fencer, I'd love to hear any additional weird things that trouble you about the case.

TIA

Added to reasonable doubt list - If you see more, keep adding!
-How do you feel that Proctor initially thought it was a fight but did not investigate anyone who could be involved n the fight?
-That Proctoe told his sister a secret that Albert?? (Not sure of name - someone in house was involved? But don’t tell anyone.
That McCabe said she would buy him a gift when this was all over? He said give it to his wife!
-That Ali McCabe said ‘Colin was not in the house when John was there? Oops
-That a witness stated he destroyed his phone as he was ‘cutting through the military base’. Cutting through?( to gain entry The military member submits the guests name & date, the name if approved is given to the gate guards. They check ID. There is no way you ‘can cut through’. It is a secure area. Even getting in is very deliberate and secure process.
-A group text stating’Tell and then he was not in the house’ reply ‘Exactly’
The impossible gymnastics JO would have done when hit be the car.
His shoe flew over the car.
Please add on to the ‘reasonable doubt chain. I know there is more.
 
Did wcvb ever include info regarding the cross exam of Paul? The way this is summarized makes it appear that Paul was never challenged with the fact that he didn't even line up the two vehicles next to one another for measurement comparison.
Interesting.

I think that is next weeks entertainment, er… cross examination.
 
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