MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #10

[nodamselindistress]

Added to reasonable doubt list - If you see more, keep adding!
-How do you feel that Proctor initially thought it was a fight but did not investigate anyone who could be involved n the fight?
-That Proctoe told his sister a secret that Albert?? (Not sure of name - someone in house was involved? But don’t tell anyone.
That McCabe said she would buy him a gift when this was all over? He said give it to his wife!
-That Ali McCabe said ‘Colin was not in the house when John was there? Oops
-That a witness stated he destroyed his phone as he was ‘cutting through the military base’. Cutting through?( to gain entry The military member submits the guests name & date, the name if approved is given to the gate guards. They check ID. There is no way you ‘can cut through’. It is a secure area. Even getting in is very deliberate and secure process.
-A group text stating’Tell and then he was not in the house’ reply ‘Exactly’
The impossible gymnastics JO would have done when hit be the car.
His shoe flew over the car.
Please add on to the ‘reasonable doubt chain. I know there is more.

One correction because I feel it is important (to my theory Colin is involved!). It was JULIE ALBERT who wanted to buy the gift when this is all over.

ETA: This is the same Julie Albert who left the bar early with a migraine and was not even at the after party at 34 Fairview and who lied about what time Colin got home.

 

[bobbymkii]

I wonder if the ME will testify to being pressured into a homicide determination.

Well, the Honorable Judge Beverly J. Cannone ruled that the door is open for witnesses to answer questions about harassment and intimidation they have received as a result of their involvement in this case. So does that include harassment from LE as well? Surely it should!

JMO

 

[housewife]

IMO some see probable doubt in this case but FEEL like KR is guilty and would still judge her as such, regardless.
That really scares me.

 

[TristanP]

It’s honestly ridiculous the CW’s motion that 3 PhDs that are reconstructionists hired by the federal government aren’t experts but somehow Trooper Tully is one?

I was re-watching Bukhenik today, and I was annoyed all over again about his attempts to be an ME.

 

[bobbymkii]

It’s honestly ridiculous the CW’s motion that 3 PhDs that are reconstructionists hired by the federal government aren’t experts but somehow Trooper Tully is one?

As far as I can tell, their objection isn't due to their lack of qualifications (and I would expect them all to absolutely ace that part of their voir dire on Tuesday), more that the defense haven't given enough notice to the CW about what exactly they will testify to?

Although that would be more than a bit rich, considering the CW tried to get Trooper Paul to give evidence to a completely new expert opinion (completely undisclosed to the defense, right up until the point he was giving evidence in front of the jury) based on him watching a video on Court TV!

Does anyone else learn so much more about criminal law procedures by watching lawyers mess up in court than they do when they watch everyone do everything with boring efficiency or is that just me?

All JMO

 

[nodamselindistress]

IMO some see probable doubt in this case but FEEL like KR is guilty and would still judge her as such, regardless.
That really scares me.

So true! I have seen such great reasons that she is guilty, such as:

- She was drunk!
- She said she hit him!
- She holds her mouth weird
- She acts like she is a lawyer at the defense table, taking notes and making comments or suggestions to her attorney!
- She just wanted to get married and JO did not, so she killed him
- She would not just sit in the car while he went inside, she was jealous she would be hunting him down (meanwhile he is out until 3 am in Aruba and she didn't hunt him down or kill him)

That is just off the top of my head. There were more!

 

[nodamselindistress]

As far as I can tell, their objection isn't due to their lack of qualifications (and I would expect them all to absolutely ace that part of their voir dire on Tuesday), more that the defense haven't given enough notice to the CW about what exactly they will testify to?

Although that would be more than a bit rich, considering the CW tried to get Trooper Paul to give evidence to a completely new expert opinion (completely undisclosed to the defense, right up until the point he was giving evidence in front of the jury) based on him watching a video on Court TV!

Does anyone else learn so much more about criminal law procedures by watching lawyers mess up in court than they do when they watch everyone do everything with boring efficiency or is that just me?

All JMO

Yes Bobby, that is the way I understood it as well. Lally is objecting he does not have enough info to know what they will be testifying to. But I think @Harmony.E proposed earlier the defense handed over what they have and it isn't much since these were FBI experts. No need for the defense to delve further, they had their reports to the FBI. No need for prep, etc.

 

[Sachi]

CourtTV, IMO, is only good for live trials and maybe some recaps. The talking heads are often completely uninformed about the cases they talk about.

I don't think the evidence from the CW is going to get much better. Their case has been smoke and mirrors from the start. The state reconstructionist is talking literal nonsense and will be eviscerated on the stand. For me at least, I could barely understand a word Ms. Hyde was saying. I wonder how and where the state found her. She's apparently a sole business owner and clearly not from the Boston area (didn't recognize the word "Hockomock" which is a sports league.) Did the CW have to search all over the country to find someone who would tell them what they wanted to hear? Did anyone on the jury understand her conclusions?

The defense will call a Cellebrite expert who will explain that she's wrong, and Jen M. did indeed search "Hos long" at 2:27. If this person makes sense, the jury will believe them over her.

The state's best (they hope) and final evidence will probably be Karen's voicemails they hope will convince the jury she's so crazy, she ranted endlessly to a man she'd just intentionally ran down and killed.

I'm trying to imagine Lally's whispered, meandering closing vs. Yannetti's (my guess is he'll be the one giving it) rational breakdown of the state's case, complete with discussion of the creation and destruction of evidence used to frame his client. I don't see this one being close.

PS - where the heck is the ME?

Jessica L. Hyde – Digital Forensics

dfor.gmu.edu

 

[GoBuckeyes]

No. Proctor's introduction to Karen Read was heavily influenced by Jen McCabe. She of the disputed "Hos long to die " search.
MOO

And the disputed "KR acted... on vacation."

 

[louvillian08]

IMO some see probable doubt in this case but FEEL like KR is guilty and would still judge her as such, regardless.
That really scares me.

100000% this. You can hate the drama surrounding this case, hate Turtleboy, hate KR herself, you can even “think it’s most likely she did it” but at some point, you have to realize it’s been 6 weeks of trial and there has not been one clear piece of evidence regarding her involvement. There still hasn’t been evidence he was hit by a car.

I also can’t understand why the CW flat out lying and presenting extremely disingenuous “evidence” doesn’t matter to that same group of people.

 

[bobbymkii]

So true! I have seen such great reasons that she is guilty, such as:

- She was drunk!
- She said she hit him!
- She holds her mouth weird
- She acts like she is a lawyer at the defense table, taking notes and making comments or suggestions to her attorney!
- She just wanted to get married and JO did not, so she killed him
- She would not just sit in the car while he went inside, she was jealous she would be hunting him down (meanwhile he is out until 3 am in Aruba and she didn't hunt him down or kill him)

That is just off the top of my head. There were more!

"Occam's Razor"

 

[HarmonyE.]

I'm not fully off the fence on the question, but my initial thought was that Proctor was sure Karen was guilty after talking to his Albert friends and Jen as well seeing the small crack in the taillight (not knowing what happened back at 1 Meadows), and was sorely disappointed to find zero evidence at Fairview. So he helped things along by breaking more of the taillight off and getting it at the scene as soon as he could to assist in it "revealing" itself.

The guy is clearly as dumb as a sack of turnips and framing people he believes to be guilty is probably something he does with ease. I'd have loved to see the look on his face when he first saw the video of Karen hitting John's car in the exact same spot at 5 am.

I'm sure the plan is to fire him as soon as this trial is over, but I think anyone who oversees him or his work must go as well. The state police here need to clean house. This is not the first massive scandal. Canton is doing what it can to deal with the problems with their PD, we need to see this done at the state level as well.

 

[nodamselindistress]

I'm not fully off the fence on the question, but my initial thought was that Proctor was sure Karen was guilty after talking to his Albert friends and Jen as well seeing the small crack in the taillight (not knowing what happened back at 1 Meadows), and was sorely disappointed to find zero evidence at Fairview. So he helped things along by breaking more of the taillight off and getting it at the scene as soon as he could to assist in it "revealing" itself.

The guy is clearly as dumb as a sack of turnips and framing people he believes to be guilty is probably something he does with ease. I'd have loved to see the look on his face when he first saw the video of Karen hitting John's car in the exact same spot at 5 am.

I'm sure the plan is to fire him as soon as this trial is over, but I think anyone who oversees him or his work must go as well. The state police here need to clean house. This is not the first massive scandal. Canton is doing what it can to deal with the problems with their PD, we need to see this done at the state level as well.

Absolutely, Bukhenik, to me, knew what was going on. So did Tully. And this Paul guy is just not that bright. He can set facts and formulate hypotheses but if his original assumption is erroneous, there it all goes into the dirt pile.

 

[kittythehare]

I wonder if the ME will testify to being pressured into a homicide determination.

I doubt that, ME is not meant to succumb to pressure.
Did ME request and obtain second and third opinions?

Undetermined.

Undetermined 'cos why??
Preliminary autopsies are often undetermined but full autopsy answers the questions.
Various laboratory testing incl toxicology can take quite a while.

Was a full MRI performed?
Was a brain bleed confirmed?
Was the site of the bleed consistent with the site of the head wound?

Were there other head injuries visible on analysis of the brain and cranium?

Was there more than one fatal injury?
What part of his body was injured?

Were any of his injuries consistent with vicious tail light cover on the rampage?

 

[kittythehare]

Absolutely, Bukhenik, to me, knew what was going on. So did Tully. And this Paul guy is just not that bright. He can set facts and formulate hypotheses but if his original assumption is erroneous, there it all goes into the dirt pile.

5'7dummie to mimic a 6'2 guy is away with the fairies by a long stretch.

He can claim he was inadequately briefed.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I doubt that, ME is not meant to succumb to pressure.
Did ME request and obtain second and third opinions?

Undetermined.

Undetermined 'cos why??
Preliminary autopsies are often undetermined but full autopsy answers the questions.
Various laboratory testing incl toxicology can take quite a while.

Was a full MRI performed?
Was a brain bleed confirmed?
Was the site of the bleed consistent with the site of the head wound?

Were there other head injuries visible on analysis of the brain and cranium?

Was there more than one fatal injury?
What part of his body was injured?

Were any of his injuries consistent with vicious tail light cover on the rampage?

I'm almost less interested in what the ME has to say than I am why Lally has waited so long to call her.

To your point, ME's don't really solve crimes; they autopsy bodies to determine - if they can - the cause and manner of death. In a normal case she should have been one of the first witnesses called. Is Lally afraid of what she might say about the injuries? Or about why she added that "not a fight" comment, which was almost certainly to appease dirty cops?

One of the last remaining mysteries of the state's case, IMHO.

 

[TIGER0822]

One correction because I feel it is important (to my theory Colin is involved!). It was JULIE ALBERT who wanted to buy the gift when this is all over.

ETA: This is the same Julie Albert who left the bar early with a migraine and was not even at the after party at 34 Fairview and who lied about what time Colin got home.

Thank you for the correction.
Julie Albert wanted to buy the gift not McCabe

 

[keek]

Thank you for the correction.
Julie Albert wanted to buy the gift not McCabe

When it was all over. Just keep keeping my son out of it.

 

[keek]

Once the girl is called by the defense that Colin called for a ride out, called, not texted, she will have that info on her phone. Time. Called before he texted his cousin Alie. It's what he said that may open his I left story, placing him in that house. FBI has lots on them all I keep reminding myself, they did give a ton of information to the DEFENSE.

 

[TIGER0822]

So Jen googled this more than once, did she ever click on a link the search

Dbm