MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #10

[mzmarymac]

How much "defense" evidence is presented to a grand jury? Any? I don't know anything about it.

No defense attorneys involved at all. Just prosecution. One-sided. It has been said that a grand jury can indict a ham sandwich. It is EXTREMELY rare that a grand jury fails to return an indictment. It is, however, more rare, when a grand jury adds on charges such as this. They are the ones who tacked on the 2nd degree murder charge.

 

[RANCH]

He texted his friends and trooper B she was a babe along with having a Fall River accent as a slam and had no class.

I'm confused. What does that have to do with the Judge's and Dr Russell's age and how the Judge is seeing the witness as being old and feeble?

Maybe I'm mixing up who you're talking about. JMO.

 

[TristanP]

The prosecution shouldn't definitively state what caused the injuries on JO's arm. They absolutely look like they could be dog bites, they also could be rolling around in glass, plastic, crawling through the bushes, dragged under a car, or any number of things and experts will never agree 100% what they are. We have no idea what he did after being hit by the car assuming you believe that is what happened. We have no idea if he died instantly or if those marks were on his arms before he exited KR's car (those could also be scratch marks from KR). To me, if there is no canine DNA on his shirt, then there was no dog bite. A dog bite through his shirt is much more aggressive than a cheek swab. Does anyone believe a dog dragged its teeth across his skin with his shirt in its mouth the whole time and there is no DNA left behind?

They’re not scratch marks from Karen. How could she have scratched him like that while she was in the driver’s seat?

Not to mention that there were nine PUNCTURE marks on his shirt. Something put NINE holes in his shirt while those wounds were inflicted. Fingernails couldn’t have done that. Glass couldn’t have done that. Taillight pieces couldn’t have done that.

Dog teeth and dog claws…they could have done that.

 

[keek]

I'm confused. What does that have to do with the Judge's and Dr Russell's age and how the Judge is seeing the witness as being old and feeble?

Maybe I'm mixing up who you're talking about. JMO.

I thought you meant what was Proctors term he used involving what I said about the witness. I said judge showed she had ‘no class’ in her manner towards her. Using Proctors ‘term’ which he used to use as a personal put down of KR. We know how unprofessional those texts of his were and are very much public and to the jury . Showed instant bias among his other traits and we wait for the defense

 

[RANCH]

I thought you meant what was Proctors term he used involving what I said about the witness. I said judge showed she had ‘no class’ in her manner towards her. Using Proctors ‘term’ which he used to use as a personal put down of KR. We know how unprofessional those texts of his were and are very much public and to the jury . Showed instant bias among his other traits and we wait for the defense

I see now.

I watched the voir dire hearing and feel that the Judge did not it any way say anything disrespectful to or about Dr. Russell or act in an unprofessional manner. JMO.

 

[TIGER0822]

I agree but you never know what each member of the jury is thinking. This dog bite evidence/expert might be the thing that convinces one juror and it is Karen's right to defend against "the tail light did it!" theory. After weeks and weeks ad nauseam of the prosecution witnesses, surely this judge cannot prevent the defense from using this expert in their mere 4 days of testimony?

The judge extremely rude to the Doctor, and said ‘you might not be able to testify’, she took it under advisory, ie trying to figure out a legal way to back out without ‘looking bad’. This would also seal the case that KR did not do this. The judge does not want this.

 

[kittythehare]

I see now.

I watched the voir dire hearing and feel that the Judge did not it any way say anything disrespectful to or about Dr. Russell or act in an unprofessional manner. JMO.

She was dismissive and it was noticeable.
She also passed a disrespectful comment after the witness left the room. It signified disrespect, clear and simply.
..'she couldn't even say with...' or words to that effect.
I was surprised because apart from her permitting prosecution to object to every syllable, I was okay with her..

 

[RANCH]

The judge extremely rude to the Doctor, and said ‘you might not be able to testify’, she took it under advisory, ie trying to figure out a legal way to back out without ‘looking bad’. This would also seal the case that KR did not do this. The judge does not want this.

The Judge was talking about the problem with the defense bringing this witness in late and her possible desire to be part of the trial without the defense seeking her out and asking for her help.

All legitimate issues and within her duty to make a ruling on. JMO.

 

[kittythehare]

They’re not scratch marks from Karen. How could she have scratched him like that while she was in the driver’s seat?

Not to mention that there were nine PUNCTURE marks on his shirt. Something put NINE holes in his shirt while those wounds were inflicted. Fingernails couldn’t have done that. Glass couldn’t have done that. Taillight pieces couldn’t have done that.

Dog teeth and dog claws…they could have done that.

Either that or hot rocks and I doubt he was the smoking type.

 

[MyJoey]

They’re not scratch marks from Karen. How could she have scratched him like that while she was in the driver’s seat?

Not to mention that there were nine PUNCTURE marks on his shirt. Something put NINE holes in his shirt while those wounds were inflicted. Fingernails couldn’t have done that. Glass couldn’t have done that. Taillight pieces couldn’t have done that.

Dog teeth and dog claws…they could have done that.

Trial photos …..link was provided up thread. There’s more than just the arm holes.

 

[RANCH]

She was dismissive and it was noticeable.
She also passed a disrespectful comment after the witness left the room. It signified disrespect, clear and simply.
..'she couldn't even say with...' or words to that effect.
I was surprised because apart from her permitting prosecution to object to every syllable, I was okay with her..

I didn't hear a disrespectful comment by the judge.

The Judge did have to help the witness in answering a simple and very important question. That's a valid concern in my opinion.

JMO.

 

[kittythehare]

Trial photos …..link was provided up thread. There’s more than just the arm holes.

Are we 100% sure they weren't cut outs from stain analysis?

 

[bobbymkii]

At the end that Voir Dire hearing, Judge Beverly even seemed annoyed with the defense that it finished so quickly. As if they should have had some sort of spidey-sense that it would and that they could have confidently arranged for the jury to be in for a half day at least. Oh well, I guess it'll allow you some time to do prep.

 

[kittythehare]

I didn't hear a disrespectful comment by the judge.

The Judge did have to help the witness in answering a simple and very important question. That's a valid concern in my opinion.

JMO.

She showed impatience with that IMO..

 

[keek]

I didn't hear a disrespectful comment by the judge.

The Judge did have to help the witness in answering a simple and very important question. That's a valid concern in my opinion.

JMO.

It came out as the witness needed to use the correct legal term which she was thinking of to be utmost professional. Read her extensive background and in what.

 

[k-mac]

If you read the texts from earlier that day she hadn’t wanted to come that night. She wanted to talk about the fight that morning and the relationship in general, but she specifically said she wasn’t sure about coming back to Canton and that she needed to clear her head. JOK wanted her to come back asking if she were coming.

Later, she texted she was going back to her house saying kids would be alone and he didn’t respond. She was obviously angry thinking he was ignoring and texted again saying she’d left and back at her house and kids alone. She was clearly trying to obtain a response thinking he was purposely not answering and felt he’d go home right away thinking the kids were alone at home. I think it says more that she didn’t just go home and instead put her own anger aside to not actually leave the kids alone.

yeah I know we can explain it away why she is lying....
There is always a reason why Karen is doing something wrong.

But my point is.
she does lie...shes comfortable lying.



moo

 

[RANCH]

She showed impatience with that IMO..

I saw her doing a good job as a Judge.

 

[keek]

She showed impatience with that IMO..

Judge was out of her scope of intelligence with such a witness and her background and expertise so it was as Judge got to have he 'ahhha! moment. 'Classless' and unprofessional is greatly being talked about, NOT the witness.

 

[shotgun09]

I see now.

I watched the voir dire hearing and feel that the Judge did not it any way say anything disrespectful to or about Dr. Russell or act in an unprofessional manner. JMO.

I actually detected a snarl from the Judge, and a bit of disdain when Dr Russell admitted she first heard/read about this case from The Boston Globe. Judge Bev, IMO disliked her from the get go. It was apparent to me.

 

[RANCH]

It came out as the witness needed to use the correct legal term which she was thinking of to be utmost professional. Read her extensive background and in what.

No, the Judge wanted this expert witness to use a professional term to explain her views. It's not the Judges fault that the witness waffled.

Time to agree to disagree on this. JMO.