MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #11

[NoSpoonFeeding]

It has not been DISPROVEN?

South America

To hook up?

Wait, am I on tiktok?, the comments do not disappoint

 

[MyJoey]

You are not presenting facts, just opinion. And did you watch the testimony of the Lab Tech that put the tail light pieces together. Doesn't appear so.

Yes I did but just for fun I’ll watch again.

 

[kittythehare]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed due to derogatory name variations/name calling> ... did JK's children not testify that she had no access to the cameras?

 

[MyJoey]

but did JK's children not testify that she had no access to the cameras?

I thought they said the house computer could access them, if I remember correctly.

 

[jepop]

but did JK's children not testify that she had no access to the cameras?

They did IIRC. My point is that Proctor was the only one with means, motive and opportunity to delete videos from the ring camera imo

ETA And I think the defense pointed that out adequately during their cross

 

[kittythehare]

They did IIRC. My point is that Proctor was the only one with means, motive and opportunity to delete videos from the ring camera imo

Gotcha, thanks.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I thought it was a couple of minutes even earlier than that.

This is judge Bev we're talking about. And she does not rock boats. Brian Higgins could walk in and confess tomorrow and Bev would still send the case to the jury.

I believe it was 12:36 am. IIRC

 

[GoBuckeyes]

A REASONABLE person would think he was sleeping over, where she had left him.

Not “did I hit him”
He’s dead
A plow hit him

What's reasonable to one isn't reasonable to another and vice versa.

 

[jepop]

During the relevant times and prior to warrant, the only person who had access to the ring camera via JO's phone and through that the ring camera app was Trooper Proctor. That was certainly confirmed via his testimomy. Jmo but his access was confirmed in testimony.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

During the relevant times and prior to warrant, the only person who had access to the ring camera via JO's phone and through that the ring camera app was Trooper Proctor. That was certainly confirmed via his testimomy. Jmo but his access was confirmed in testimony.

Agree 100%.

 

[k-mac]

IMO
The voice messages KR left JO in that half hour period after she's left him for dead...

I effing hate you john!!
Your such a effing looser!
Your a pervert john!
You effing that other girl!



IMO those messages are 'look what you made you made me do.'


All roads lead to Karen Read's unhinged rage as showcased in the very messages from that very hour.

moo

 

[mickey2942]

OK, so it seems like JO was stringing along KR, using her to babysit and whatnot, while out partying, and she couldn't because of her health issues, and supposedly banged someone else (whether he did or didn't, KR believed he did and it's not a unreasonable assumption) and KR was in a rage over that, calling and cursing him out on voicemail? And KR was flirting with Higgins, presumably to make JO jealous?
I'll buy that, seems pretty believable. But all I'm seeing is a woman who did some crappy stuff to try and keep an apparently crappy BF and a BF who's apparently taking advantage of his sick GF to use as a sitter and provide a home life while he's unwilling or unable to dial back his partying and goes to a after party with friends instead of going home with his GF, who he uses as a sitter.
People being people. I've unfortunately seen worse.
But I still haven't seen the state make a strong case that proves murder.

Sounds like a chaotic and dysfunctional relationship. Personally, I have been in a codependent relationship like this, it intensifies rage beyond reason.

I believe that she knew she knocked him down, and drove off. I don't think that she meant for him to die. But he was too drunk to get up, and his buddies thought he left with her.

Looks like manslaughter to me, or involuntary.

 

[SteveS]

Sounds like a chaotic and dysfunctional relationship. Personally, I have been in a codependent relationship like this, it intensifies rage beyond reason.

I believe that she knew she knocked him down, and drove off. I don't think that she meant for him to die. But he was too drunk to get up, and his buddies thought he left with her.

Looks like manslaughter to me, or involuntary.

"Looks like manslaughter to me, or involuntary. "

Someone might think that (although I think the evidence has been too weak and the witnesses too conflicting to convict on anything -- they are presenting possibilities, and self-contradictory claims, but nothing that pushes the needle).

But I don't think anyone who is objective will be able to support the prosecution once the unbiased FBI-hired experts who have elite skills in reconstructing exactly how an accident happened testify that science, looking at the evidence and his injuries, says he wasn't hit by a vehicle. It's coming.

 

[jepop]

I'd go a step further and criminally prosecute them for bringing false witness. That is an automatic felony.

" What Is Suborning Perjury? A person is guilty of suborning perjury if he or she attempts to induce a witness to give false testimony under oath in a court or other proceeding, and the witness actually gives false testimony (if the person is an attorney, simply knowing of the witness's plans is enough; see below)."

Suborning Perjury

A person is guilty of suborning perjury if he/she attempts to induce a witness to give false testimony under oath in a court or other proceeding, and the witness act

www.criminaldefenselawyer.com

RBBM. This. RE: 12.45am as time Lexus sighted at 34 Fairview. Jmo but I think there's a chance Lally did this with JMc.Moo

 

[mrjitty]

It doesn't have to be disproven. As she is innocent until proven guilty, it must be proven. That's not my opinion either, that's the law.

As a newbie to the case (why on why did i allow myself to get dragged in lol), I am finding everyone's arguments fascinating. But at the moment, I am still wondering how the Judge can let this go to the jury.

If the FBI / defence experts are going to testify that it's not likely a car injury but more like a dog injury - then it's hard to see how the prosecution case as it stands rules that out as a real possibility. So how can a guilty verdict be reached?

I am not sure about the whole staging part, but it certainly feels like the accident investigator did not do enough to prove this case BARD.

Can a jury really be expected to resolve the various contradictions?

MOO

 

[jepop]

As a newbie to the case (why on why did i allow myself to get dragged in lol), I am finding everyone's arguments fascinating. But at the moment, I am still wondering how the Judge can let this go to the jury.

If the FBI / defence experts are going to testify that it's not likely a car injury but more like a dog injury - then it's hard to see how the prosecution case as it stands rules that out as a real possibility. So how can a guilty verdict be reached?

I am not sure about the whole staging part, but it certainly feels like the accident investigator did not do enough to prove this case BARD.

Can a jury really be expected to resolve the various contradictions?

MOO

Is it posible judge might have to dismiss the case after defense experts testify, depending on degree of contradiction, content and credibility? Am ignorant on laws salient to these issues, but would the judge have a choice between dismissal and a directed verdict of NG? Thanks and appreciated if you find time to offer any insights.

 

[Moonstrawbs]

ALIBI.

moo

If you're wanting to create an alibi why would you leave messages saying I hate you? Surely you'd "pretend" to be concerned or appear more neutral, even loving, as seen in many cases where perps lay it on thick.JMO.

 

[Moonstrawbs]

Blood from what on the taillight pieces? Those are abrasions on his arms, not lacerations.

His hair is on her SUV
HIS DNA was found on her car’s taillight
Microscopic pieces of that taillight were found on his clothes.
There’s no dog DNA
there’s no dog hair.
There’s no evidence of a physical altercation
There’s no evidence he ever entered the house
There’s no evidence his body or phone moved after 12:32 am

You need to watch the second ME testimony she does a fantastic job explaining why the death is left undertermined.

I can’t say beyond a reasonable doubt that it was intentional.
I can say she hit him, she left him and he died as a result. I’d convict her of manslaughter easily.
She was behind the wheel. No different than a drunk holding gun and accidentally pulling the trigger.

For the 4829273rd time mentioned in this thread, it is touch DNA on the tail light. To say just DNA is disingenuous. JMO.

 

[pavlovsdaughter]

I’ve been pondering all day on the idea of what if it wasn’t either of the major theories. She didn’t hit him AND they didn’t beat him up/injure him/leave him in the cold to die.

Could he have fallen and hit his head? Never made it inside. So they’re not lying by saying he never came inside. She never hit him. Etc.

I can’t figure out how to explain the shoe at the curb (planted?) or the abrasions/lacerations/puncture wounds on his arm (dog attacked him in the front yard, he fell backwards hitting his head, nobody realized it til he had been outside in the cold too long?). Then it became a disaster with a bunch of drunk people trying to cover up the dead body in the front yard. Maybe they thought CA did it, but he didn’t. Maybe by the time they realized they were trying to cover up something that never happened, they were in too deep?

I don’t think we will ever know.

I’m surprised more hasn’t been made of the possibility of someone else hitting him (yes, I know about the FBI experts who will probably testify that his injuries weren’t caused by a car, but let’s indulge the theory for a moment). There were what, like 5 cars coming and going from that house at this time and almost everyone was driving drunk?

I remember in BH’s testimony he said something about when he left and started up his jeep the plow scraped the ground, and wondering, are you sure it was the ground that your plow scraped?

 

[jepop]

I’m surprised more hasn’t been made of the possibility of someone else hitting him (yes, I know about the FBI experts who will probably testify that his injuries weren’t caused by a car, but let’s indulge the theory for a moment). There were what, like 5 cars coming and going from that house at this time and almost everyone was driving drunk?

I remember in BH’s testimony he said something about when he left and started up his jeep the plow scraped the ground, and wondering, are you sure it was the ground that your plow scraped?

Yeah Higgins raised my radar from early on and I personally think he lied well on the stand owing to a 'poor me' presentation. But imo once defense knew the basic premise of the fbi experts, they needed to de-emphasise or background that Higgins may have hit him (or any number of other pissed drivers as you point out) for the sake of consistency. I remain suspect of Higgins' involvement in some way though and I remain suspect that Chloe got to JO either in the back yard or possibly the front if she somehow managed to scale the fence or was inadvertently let loose through the gate. Jmo and just my speculation.

Am really looking forward to the Defense's case. Imo eta first thing next week as today/tonight is going to be taken up with remaining direct and then cross exam of the ME/autopsy person. Moo