VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #13

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I've waited to post even after I fell off the fence! Not that it's important, but I believe Karen Read did hit and kill JO. I also believe she will get away with it. JMO. MOO.

My view is just the opposite. But,there is no telling what a jury will do. They might see things your way. Or get hung up.
 
@cathyrusson

Closer….. I still think there are too many questions as to what happened that night not to have reasonable doubt. Also, STOP THE DRINKING AND DRIVING! So much of that in this case.


The jury began deliberating around 1:30 pm ET in #KarenRead. They will not deliberate past 4:30 pm ET each day.
I grew up in the city of Boston and taught high school (and frequently patronized food/drink/entertainment) in Canton and know people who testified. All below is just my opinion with no inside information.

Like Cathy, I don’t believe in a grand conspiracy either. But this wouldn’t need to be a grand conspiracy.

All it takes is a 3 or 4 people in the house keeping quiet purely out of their own self interests. And a single investigator (Proctor). Nothing more.

And I honestly believe that Proctor didn’t think he was participating in any kind of conspiracy at all. The moment he learned the law enforcements connections to inside the house he was going to always implicitly believe them. No questions asked.

The outcome from there was predetermined: All fingers are pointed in one direction. Karen did it, right? She must have done it. Couldn’t have been them.

And add to that the sense of urgency. The last thing you want to do is not secure a conviction in this type of case. The victim? Dead cop. Family needs justice.

I think Proctor quickly saw the holes in this case. Saw how weak it was. So he sought out places where he could take evidence that wasnt strong and bolster it. JMO.

In my opinion the taillight is a perfect illustration of this. Did Karen break her taillight when she hit John or was it already cracked from bumping into the car? I honestly couldn’t tell you and I’m not sure it mattered to Proctor. JMO

It’s not that far a leap when you really think about (all my opinion and should be read in jest): She did it. Right? The taillight was already cracked from her doing it right? It’s already evidence against her. Is it strong evidence? No. How do we make it a little stronger? What if we took a little piece of our existing evidence and say we found it at the scene? We KNOW she did it so is it really that wrong?

For most of us the answer to that question would be: yes, it’s wrong. But when there’s a dead cop and a family needs justice and your alternative suspects are all cops you just don’t ask yourself these kind of questions. JMO

Sorry for sounding crass. That is just my opinion.

So when someone asks me “do you think Karen did it?” I always reply with “it doesn’t matter if she did it or not”. And that’s the sad thing for the OKeefe family. They’ll never get justice.

MOO
 
I've waited to post even after I fell off the fence! Not that it's important, but I believe Karen Read did hit and kill JO. I also believe she will get away with it. JMO. MOO.
What would be your answer to the multiple highly-educated experts who testified that his injuries weren't consistent with getting hit by a car, that the location of his body wasn't explainable by KR backing into him, and that the damage to the car itself isn't consistent with the prosecution theory?

Keep in mind, the prosecution's own ME seemed unsure if it was possible for a car to cause John's injuries.
 
I've waited to post even after I fell off the fence! Not that it's important, but I believe Karen Read did hit and kill JO. I also believe she will get away with it. JMO. MOO.
I think Karen will be found not guilty however I believe she murdered John. At first I thought she was drunk and didn't know she hit him. It was the vehicle evidence and the timing of the big fight that changed my mind add in her behavior after she got home.
 
I grew up in the city of Boston and taught high school (and frequently patronized food/drink/entertainment) in Canton and know people who testified. All below is just my opinion with no inside information.

Like Cathy, I don’t believe in a grand conspiracy either. But this wouldn’t need to be a grand conspiracy.

All it takes is a 3 or 4 people in the house keeping quiet purely out of their own self interests. And a single investigator (Proctor). Nothing more.

And I honestly believe that Proctor didn’t think he was participating in any kind of conspiracy at all. The moment he learned the law enforcements connections to inside the house he was going to always implicitly believe them. No questions asked.

The outcome from there was predetermined: All fingers are pointed in one direction. Karen did it, right? She must have done it. Couldn’t have been them.

And add to that the sense of urgency. The last thing you want to do is not secure a conviction in this type of case. The victim? Dead cop. Family needs justice.

I think Proctor quickly saw the holes in this case. Saw how weak it was. So he sought out places where he could take evidence that wasnt strong and bolster it. JMO.

In my opinion the taillight is a perfect illustration of this. Did Karen break her taillight when she hit John or was it already cracked from bumping into the car? I honestly couldn’t tell you and I’m not sure it mattered to Proctor. JMO

It’s not that far a leap when you really think about (all my opinion and should be read in jest): She did it. Right? The taillight was already cracked from her doing it right? It’s already evidence against her. Is it strong evidence? No. How do we make it a little stronger? What if we took a little piece of our existing evidence and say we found it at the scene? We KNOW she did it so is it really that wrong?

For most of us the answer to that question would be: yes, it’s wrong. But when there’s a dead cop and a family needs justice and your alternative suspects are all cops you just don’t ask yourself these kind of questions. JMO

Sorry for sounding crass. That is just my opinion.

So when someone asks me “do you think Karen did it?” I always reply with “it doesn’t matter if she did it or not”. And that’s the sad thing for the OKeefe family. They’ll never get justice.

MOO
I don't think it is a GRAND CONSPIRACY but as mentioned some in the house..probably the basement that agreed to keep it quiet. Others in that house may never have known anything.
 
I wasn't even on the fence. I was firmly on the guilty side. But the deleted calls, more 'buttdials' in one night then most of us have in our entire life, the constant cross examnesia (hat tip to Legal Bytes for that phrase), failure to look at the house where a dead cop was found in the yard, failure to interview people in the house for weeks, no chain of custody on evidence for over a month, a federal agent destroying evidence (he admitted that at the time he thought the subpoena for his phone was still valid when he destroyed it), the texts from Proctor to his friends showing his bias (charming understatement).
All of that quickly moved me from a hard 'Guilty' to 'Probably guilty but haven't proved it to me' to 'Not guilty, probably an accident and too focused on KR', to 'Oh my god, I think they really did coverup who really killed him'.
 
I think Karen will be found not guilty however I believe she murdered John. At first I thought she was drunk and didn't know she hit him. It was the vehicle evidence and the timing of the big fight that changed my mind add in her behavior after she got home.

What big fight? He must not have been bothered or he wouldn’t have been trying to get her to stay all weekend with him. What about the FBI experts? They just made up their testimony?
 
I wasn't even on the fence. I was firmly on the guilty side. But the deleted calls, more 'buttdials' in one night then most of us have in our entire life, the constant cross examnesia (hat tip to Legal Bytes for that phrase), failure to look at the house where a dead cop was found in the yard, failure to interview people in the house for weeks, no chain of custody on evidence for over a month, a federal agent destroying evidence (he admitted that at the time he thought the subpoena for his phone was still valid when he destroyed it), the texts from Proctor to his friends showing his bias (charming understatement).
All of that quickly moved me from a hard 'Guilty' to 'Probably guilty but haven't proved it to me' to 'Not guilty, probably an accident and too focused on KR', to 'Oh my god, I think they really did coverup who really killed him'.
This tracks for me as well. Excellent post.
 
I definitely think that she did it.
I could be persuaded to think that KR accidentally hit him, didn't know, and went home to curse him out on voicemail. But the CW went all in on murder and did a terrible investigation and there's too many added problems with crap like letting all the Alberts get their story straight before being interviewed and poor evidence control.
 
I've waited to post even after I fell off the fence! Not that it's important, but I believe Karen Read did hit and kill JO. I also believe she will get away with it. JMO. MOO.
I respect you stating your honest opinion here. I usually don't have the courage to do that in a forum where I am outnumbered. It must be frustrating for you to think she won't be punished for her actions though.
 
The timeline from the defense makes a lot more sense imo. Especially considering the phone data from both JO and KR. The evidence of the "impact" on the car/tail light and JO's injuries not being consistent with being hit by a vehicle is something that SHOULD NOT be ignored. The CW's own ME could not say it was due to a vehicle. This is worrying considering the nature of the case and accusations against KR. Also, something interesting that I didn't pick up before, was that Higgins said a tall dark-haired man came into the Albert house that night, which according to Jackson appeared to be a slip up. jmo.
 
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