VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #14

[sunspun]

could an Attorney or legal professionals weigh in on this?

Is this Judicial misconduct?

would the judge turning to KR, (who was smiling) and saying ‘Excuse me, this is funny, Ms Read? ‘I am done with you, be showing bias.

I am by no means an atty or legal pro, but I have spent way too much time in courtrooms (I'd like to say it was in some job-related capacity, but alas, it's just my checkered past when I was much younger and couldn't seem to stay out of trouble w/the police!) So I can say with authority (lol) that I have seen judges act much worse than this toward a defendant many times. (Never in front of a jury however.) Once I was waiting for my case to be called, and I saw the judge chuck his SHOE at a defendant in custody sitting in the jurybox, because he was whispering to a fellow inmate. Another time, I saw a judge order an adult male defendant to go stand in the corner facing the wall when he gave a flippant answer to something the judge asked him. Once, a judge was ready to hand down a sentence for a defendant who had pleaded guilty without a plea deal in place. The judge told the defendant to look out the window and count the number of white cars in the parking lot and tell him how many he saw. Then the judge told him that was how many years he was going to prison for! I could go on, but hopefully you get the idea. IMO, Judge Cannone has shown bias toward the prosecution in this case, but this particular comment I feel sprang more from frustration than from bias. I think she could finally see the end in sight of this difficult trial, and when AJ raised his concerns, all she heard was more delay of that end. It's understandable she's ready for this to be over, but she should have checked her frustration, imo, instead of snipping at the defendant for basically no reason, imo.

 

[turaj]

If there had been any credible testimony that he actually was hit by a car, any car, I'd be with you. But, there wasn't, in my opinion.

And everything goes from there, which is why she should be found NG on all counts.

IMO MOO

my only concern is there could be one or more than feel a man is dead and it is their duty to hold someone accountable and KR is who they are presented with.

 

[jepop]

Medical experts testified he would’ve been immediately incapacitated from his head injuries. So unless we believe he jumped 30 feet out of the way, I don’t see how this theory works at all.

I also tried to make sense of the evidence by thinking perhaps he stumbled around and eventually collapsed where he was found. Then that theory was discarded once I heard the medical expert testimony. Do you believe the medical expert was wrong?

Ditto for me in that I considered he may have stumbled from back yard or house with head wound and dog attack marks and then fallen where he was found. I had to discard that after irrefutable evidence from the medical experts that the head wound would have rendered JO immediately unconscious. Evidence, it needs to be emphasised, which was never challenged in any way, shape or form by the cw. moo

 

[sunspun]

Bailed

Do we know if she's continued teaching while the trial has been going on? Or working in some other role at the school perhaps?

ETA sorry, just saw this has been answered in an earlier post! thx!

 

[TTF14]

Very astute observation. I lived there for 4 years (2 in Boston area, 2 in Western Mass). People would NOT let me in, it was awful and lonely. I moved to Western MA thinking they would be more open. Nope. Ironically enough, I was often accused of being a "spy" or cop because I was friendly and asked questions to get to know people. It was excruciating, and really put a strain (understatement) on my mental health. I ended up blindly moving to the Midwest specifically for their reputation of kindness. It worked. I can 100% understand the apparent disdain for KR, regardless of personality or whatever, simply from being from another town*. Its pathetic.

*Doesn't apply exclusively to out-of-staters.
IMO

Wow. I'm sorry that happened to you. Also jealous that you could just pick up and move. I love your name, by the way .

Having not followed this case until the trial, I thought the judge was pretty fair during the trial, and she came off as REALLY knowing the law, and I felt she gave both sides ample to chances to "phrase it differently." However, I was not impressed with the behavior she displayed yesterday, and now I'm second guessing myself with my impression of her. Which are her true colors?

IMO MOO

 

[MysteryFanatic]

my only concern is there could be one or more than feel a man is dead and it is their duty to hold someone accountable and KR is who they are presented with.

I agree with you. If all the jurors felt like the majority of you on this forum feel, that she is innocent and was framed, we still wouldn't be talking about deliberation of the jurors 10 hours in now. Judging from the sentiment of this community, I feel most of the jurors are saying she is innocent. But there may be 1 or more jurors that think she is guilty of at least one of those charges against her. It doesn't take 10 hours to decide 4 charges against her if they were all in agreement. JMHO.

 

[TIGER0822]

I am by no means an atty or legal pro, but I have spent way too much time in courtrooms (I'd like to say it was in some job-related capacity, but alas, it's just my checkered past when I was much younger and couldn't seem to stay out of trouble w/the police!) So I can say with authority (lol) that I have seen judges act much worse than this toward a defendant many times. (Never in front of a jury however.) Once I was waiting for my case to be called, and I saw the judge chuck his SHOE at a defendant in custody sitting in the jurybox, because he was whispering to a fellow inmate. Another time, I saw a judge order an adult male defendant to go stand in the corner facing the wall when he gave a flippant answer to something the judge asked him. Once, a judge was ready to hand down a sentence for a defendant who had pleaded guilty without a plea deal in place. The judge told the defendant to look out the window and count the number of white cars in the parking lot and tell him how many he saw. Then the judge told him that was how many years he was going to prison for! I could go on, but hopefully you get the idea. IMO, Judge Cannone has shown bias toward the prosecution in this case, but this particular comment I feel sprang more from frustration than from bias. I think she could finally see the end in sight of this difficult trial, and when AJ raised his concerns, all she heard was more delay of that end. It's understandable she's ready for this to be over, but she should have checked her frustration, imo, instead of snipping at the defendant for basically no reason, imo.

Thank you for this.

 

[nodamselindistress]

My fear is the Judge's hand-picked Foreperson is a G.

 

[TTF14]

I agree with you. If all the jurors felt like the majority of you on this forum feel, that she is innocent and was framed, we still wouldn't be talking about deliberation of the jurors 10 hours in now. Judging from the sentiment of this community, I feel most of the jurors are saying she is innocent. But there may be 1 or more jurors that think she is guilty of at least one of those charges against her. It doesn't take 10 hours to decide 4 charges against her if they were all in agreement. JMHO.

I agree with you, but find it very surprising. I don't know how they can go any further than "there's no evidence he was hit by a car at all." Case over. The CW didn't present an alternate theory (like she beat him to death, for example).

IMO MOO

 

[TristanP]

could an Attorney or legal professionals weigh in on this?

Is this Judicial misconduct?

would the judge turning to KR, (who was smiling) and saying ‘Excuse me, this is funny, Ms Read? ‘I am done with you, be showing bias.

She didn’t say she was done with Karen, I don’t think. She paused after is this funny and then said they were done discussing the issue at hand.

 

[TTF14]

I am by no means an atty or legal pro, but I have spent way too much time in courtrooms (I'd like to say it was in some job-related capacity, but alas, it's just my checkered past when I was much younger and couldn't seem to stay out of trouble w/the police!) So I can say with authority (lol) that I have seen judges act much worse than this toward a defendant many times. (Never in front of a jury however.) Once I was waiting for my case to be called, and I saw the judge chuck his SHOE at a defendant in custody sitting in the jurybox, because he was whispering to a fellow inmate. Another time, I saw a judge order an adult male defendant to go stand in the corner facing the wall when he gave a flippant answer to something the judge asked him. Once, a judge was ready to hand down a sentence for a defendant who had pleaded guilty without a plea deal in place. The judge told the defendant to look out the window and count the number of white cars in the parking lot and tell him how many he saw. Then the judge told him that was how many years he was going to prison for! I could go on, but hopefully you get the idea. IMO, Judge Cannone has shown bias toward the prosecution in this case, but this particular comment I feel sprang more from frustration than from bias. I think she could finally see the end in sight of this difficult trial, and when AJ raised his concerns, all she heard was more delay of that end. It's understandable she's ready for this to be over, but she should have checked her frustration, imo, instead of snipping at the defendant for basically no reason, imo.

Wow! Which recent trial resulted in an attorney having to write something like a 20 page paper? Was it the YSL trial (ongoing)?

 

[Curiousobserver]

Medical experts testified he would’ve been immediately incapacitated from his head injuries. So unless we believe he jumped 30 feet out of the way, I don’t see how this theory works at all.

I also tried to make sense of the evidence by thinking perhaps he stumbled around and eventually collapsed where he was found. Then that theory was discarded once I heard the medical expert testimony. Do you believe the medical expert was wrong?

No medical expert can tell you definitively that he was instantly incapacitated, which also does not mean, medically, that he dropped right where he was standing/falling.

 

[ch_13]

Wow. I'm sorry that happened to you. Also jealous that you could just pick up and move. I love your name, by the way .

Having not followed this case until the trial, I thought the judge was pretty fair during the trial, and she came off as REALLY knowing the law, and I felt she gave both sides ample to chances to "phrase it differently." However, I was not impressed with the behavior she displayed yesterday, and now I'm second guessing myself with my impression of her. Which are her true colors?

IMO MOO

She was pretty dismissive of the defense in pre-trial hearings. She was particularly rude to Alan Jackson. More than once she made some comment about "that's not how we do it in Massachusetts". And she often just sat on their motions to compel (to get the commonwealth to turn over evidence) and refused to rule on them, sometimes for months.

I remember how upset she was just before the trial when the defense complained about the original courtroom because the jury couldn't see the faces of the witnesses. A completely legitimate complaint that impacts Karen's rights, but the judge acted like they were trying to pull some kind of fast one on her.

She's been more circumspect in front of the jury, but I think her behavior when they're not present shows what she really thinks of Karen Read and her attorneys.

 

[Wishbone]

dbm

 

[minazoe]

Right. And if we're going to seriously consider she did not hit him with her vehicle, but is somehow still responsible for his death, we have to believe that:

1. He jumped out of the way of her rapid, reverse (? We still doing with that?) acceleration, and somehow managed to bang up both the back and front of his head/face so badly, and his badly scratched up arm (did he hit a tree branch or something?), that he was unable to move and get himself some help, and hid himself in the process of dying.

Or

2. He didn't jump out of the way, and his injuries were a result of her beating him up. Her, the 90 pound wisp of a woman....not the drunk trained fighters inside the home he was found dead in front of.

IMO MOO

this is what I am wondering, because his arm injuries look like defense wounds to me, Did they say his coat was found?
Is it possible she was physically abusive and did this? could she have blacked out? it doesn't sound like she had any injuries after this event. Did they see any other footprints? or did the snow conceal everything...

personally I find reasonable doubt, but where booze is happening, things get cloudy, people can get very crazy and
bad stuff goes down. I find it very hard to believe no one knows what actually happened , hard to believe though that these cops would let his girlfriend take a rap. I feel like they brought this case too soon, they should have waited because the evidence was still too sketchy... they needed an informer, they should have waited. mOO

 

[jepop]

I agree that Lally’s opening was very impactful. Will the jury remember that several witnesses stated that she asked the question, “Did I hit him?” as opposed to the declarative statement, “I hit him.” One little word……

Only JMc testified to the "I hit him" and she is not credible, ie proven she lied about seeing KR's lexus at 12.45am. I hope the jury decides that JMc simply cannot be trusted and that she was likely invested in pinning JO's death on KR to the point of perjury. Jmo

 

[Aquarian]

No medical expert can tell you definitively that he was instantly incapacitated, which also does not mean, medically, that he dropped right where he was standing/falling.

I agree with this bc many brain injured people move about with no conscious knowledge that they are or with intention. I’m sure it wasn’t long before he was immobile but no one can say for sure imo.

 

[turaj]

I heard today on CourtTV that Karen Read is filming a documentary. I don't know, I find that kind of tacky. It is like cashing in on John O'Keefe's murder. If she is found innocent, I can understand her suing multiple people/organizations for defamation and being framed and getting money from that. But the documentary, which my guess it is with Netflix (has not been confirmed) and pretty sure she is getting paid for that, doesn't set right with me. This is just my feelings and MHO.

I have no doubt she will capitalize on this big time..the works...interviews...made for TV movies....everything.

 

[nodamselindistress]

All you have to do is look at the blood that went down his shirt(s) to know he was not dead on the lawn in a prone position for all that time. He was obviously propped up in a sitting position for awhile otherwise blood would not have dripped down his shirt, it would have gone straight to the ground.

 

[nightowl1975]

I agree with you. If all the jurors felt like the majority of you on this forum feel, that she is innocent and was framed, we still wouldn't be talking about deliberation of the jurors 10 hours in now. Judging from the sentiment of this community, I feel most of the jurors are saying she is innocent. But there may be 1 or more jurors that think she is guilty of at least one of those charges against her. It doesn't take 10 hours to decide 4 charges against her if they were all in agreement. JMHO.

I feel like it’s possible they are in agreement but going through all of the evidence and discussing it for a few reasons. One, they believe it’s the right thing to do. Two, sheer shock/curiosity after not being able to talk about it this whole time. Three, it’s their opportunity to look at everything first hand if they want to go on GMA or write a book or have their 15 min of fame.

Imagine if you took 12 of us that have been discussing it for months now, told us we can’t talk about it at all, and now we finally have the chance to do so? Even if all 12 of us said holy cow not guilty within minutes, we would still want to sit there and process what we had witnessed over the last 2+ months.