VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #15

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jepop said:
Imagine if it was one (or two or three) juror using their reason after considering the actual evidence holding out against the rest. I don't see them budging but probably same in opposite direction of one juror (or a few) holding out after reaching their decision through processes unrelated to rational reasoning, Jmo
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I have to admit I’m suspicious about the judge choosing the foreperson. <modsnip: no source link> I just have a hard time believing most of the jurors are voting G. MOO
 
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arielilane said:
@BienickWCVB

As the jurors filed out of the courtroom, they hung their heads and looked discouraged.


1:16 PM · Jun 28, 2024


Former Massachusetts Attorney General describes the Tuey-Rodriguez instruction as "the blast charge" because after the judge gives it, if the jury comes back again and says they're stuck, she must release them.
1:45 PM · Jun 28, 2024


https://twitter.com/x/status/1806745629626126613
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Wait, so if she gives that instruction and then they come back, she's legally obligated to release them? Holy mackerel, we are entering dangerous territory.
 
jepop said:
that's mwt (my wishful thinking) too but in the reality of canton, the judge, and if the ng are the minority I wouldn't judge an ng for caving eventually to pressure from a g majority. I don't think they should be forced to remain hung and trying to reach majority verdict any longer than than a few hours jmo. We really don't know which way the balance is here. Imo it's become hard to predict.
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I wouldn’t (necessarily) judge a NG hold-out for caving either. It’s a personal thing. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night knowing a person I truly believed to be innocent was in prison because I didn’t have the guts or stamina to stick to my guns.

If it were reversed and I was a lone “guilty” hold out, I could rationalize giving in because 11 other jurors believing the defendant was NG in itself was indication of “reasonable doubt”.
 
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Misy said:
I have to admit I’m suspicious about the judge choosing the foreperson. <modsnip: no link>. I just have a hard time believing most of the jurors are voting G. MOO
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Yes. judge should never have had the job of choosing foreperson. It's open to perception of bias and no reasons for judge's choice are on the record.IMO. At the very least foreperson should have been picked out of a hat of the randomly selected 12 jurors (putting aside the dismissal of several jurors along the way). Yanetti and Jackson can add to the list of their appellate issues if necessary and their bar complaint list in all events. moo
 
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jepop said:
Yes. judge should never have had the job of choosing foreperson. It's open to perception of bias and no reason's for judge's choice are on the record.IMO. At the very least foreperson should have been picked out of a hat of the randomly selected 12 jurors (putting aside the dismissal of several jurors along the way). Yanetti and Jackson can add to the list of their appellate issues if necessary and their bar complaint list in all events. moo
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What power does the foreperson actually have?
 
Judge Bev does not want to let this jury off. Next time they come back deadlocked, she will give them the Allen Charge (Tuey-Rodriquez Instruction as they call it in Mass.) and force jury to return on Monday. imo (I wonder if they can deliberate
Saturday.)
 
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If they do hang, how is it determined whether the G/NG tally is told to the parties and the public? Is there a MA Law that dictates disclosure or is it up to the Judge’s discretion? If it’s up to the Judge and she has the opportunity to keep that info sealed I bet she will.
 
jepop said:
Yes. judge should never have had the job of choosing foreperson. It's open to perception of bias and no reason's for judge's choice are on the record.IMO. At the very least foreperson should have been picked out of a hat of the randomly selected 12 jurors (putting aside the dismissal of several jurors along the way). Yanetti and Jackson can add to the list of their appellate issues if necessary and their bar complaint list in all events. moo
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The judge in the Murdaugh trial chose the foreperson.
I think each jurisdiction has their own way.
 
arielilane said:
An earlier post:

@KristinaRex

Some jurors looked tired coming in. A couple were smirking (only way I can think to describe it - a really awkward smile).

12:38 PM · Jun 28, 2024
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If true and reporter actually means smirks (not sure awkward smiles are the same thing) I'd bet a lot of money on the smirkys being g hold outs. Would seem to fit with an idea of not being humbled by evidence IMO
 
jepop said:
Yes. judge should never have had the job of choosing foreperson. It's open to perception of bias and no reason's for judge's choice are on the record.IMO. At the very least foreperson should have been picked out of a hat of the randomly selected 12 jurors (putting aside the dismissal of several jurors along the way). Yanetti and Jackson can add to the list of their appellate issues if necessary and their bar complaint list in all events. moo
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It's not just that the judge picked the foreman. She picked him before the alternates were chosen. So the judge was able to ensure that a specific person was going to be in the jury room. All the other deliberating jurors were selected by lot.

I don't know the Massachusetts law, but that seems to allow the judge an easy way to manipulate the discussions, especially after watching how the juror's are reacting for 9 weeks.
 
Colorado303 said:
If they do hang, how is it determined whether the G/NG tally is told to the parties and the public? Is there a MA Law that dictates disclosure or is it up to the Judge’s discretion? If it’s up to the Judge and she has the opportunity to keep that info sealed I bet she will.
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One or more of the jurors will tell after the trial is over.
 
ch_13 said:
It's not just that the judge picked the foreman. She picked him before the alternates were chosen. So the judge was able to ensure that a specific person was going to be in the jury room. All the other deliberating jurors were selected by lot.

I don't know the Massachusetts law, but that seems to allow the judge an easy way to manipulate the discussions, especially after watching how the juror's are reacting for 9 weeks.
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Exactly.
 
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