VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #15

[shotgun09]

I am just assuming that the jury is now so completely deadlocked, that the idea of purposeful discussion and debate is not even possible. Just guessing here that the jury is stuck with a 10 NG - 2 G. IF that were the case, I would just have the picture of JOK's right arm on full display. Let silence and science persuade them.

 

[Slick762]

I know for a fact that there are countries where if deliberations go on for a long time, the jury can ask to deliver a non-unanimous verdict, as long as there is only 1 dissenter. However, the USA is not one of those countries.

The Supreme Court relatively recently ruled that non-unanimous guilty verdicts are always unconstitutional, no exceptions.

One exception. Military court martial panels. Which is a jury but with a different name, so the mil courts say it doesn't mean that unanimous verdicts are required.

 

[arielilane]

It should have never gone to trial without substantial evidence against the defendant to present in a court of law.
Way too lengthy of a trial and way too much reasonable doubt. Overload of unnecessary info. Too much to retain and go thru. moo

It is interesting that CA wasn't mentioned in AJ's closing - I'll wait to be corrected. TIA
I know closing arguments are not evidence.
moo

 

[TIGER0822]

Jan. 29th this nails them!

2:15 p.m.: Matt McCabe sends a group text saying, “Tell them the guy never went in the house,” referring to Kerry Roberts speaking to a TV news station. Brian Albert responds to the group and says, “Exactly.” Jennifer McCabe writes back and says, “She’s telling them EVERYTHING!”

 

[acutename]

we really do not know what the count is- could be more like 6-6... does show that the case is not "easy" and obvious

 

[jepop]

I am just assuming that the jury is now so completely deadlocked, that the idea of purposeful discussion and debate is not even possible. Just guessing here that the jury is stuck with a 10 NG - 2 G. IF that were the case, I would just have the picture of JOK's right arm on full display. Let silence and science persuade them.

do they have all the exhibits at their disposal. Apologies for my ignorance!

 

[kittythehare]

do they have all the exhibits at their disposal. Apologies for my ignorance!

yeah.

 

[shotgun09]

do they have all the exhibits at their disposal. Apologies for my ignorance!

I would hope so !!!

 

[arielilane]

@cathyrusson

Just hit 20 hours of deliberations in MA v. #KarenRead. For reference, this is one of the longest deliberations we covered on @LawCrimeNetwork . The longest was the murder of #XXXTentacion, that jury deliberated 28 hours.


2:31 PM · Jun 28, 2024

 

[SeesSeas]

It's not just that the judge picked the foreman. She picked him before the alternates were chosen. So the judge was able to ensure that a specific person was going to be in the jury room. All the other deliberating jurors were selected by lot.

I don't know the Massachusetts law, but that seems to allow the judge an easy way to manipulate the discussions, especially after watching how the juror's are reacting for 9 weeks.

[...] the court shall direct the clerk to place the names of all of the available jurors except the foreperson into a box or drum and to select at random the names of the appropriate number of jurors necessary to reduce the jury to the proper number of members required for deliberation in the particular case. [...]

General Law - Part III, Title II, Chapter 234A, Section 68

malegislature.gov

Section 68: Additional jurors impanelled; alternate jurors​

Section 68. In every twelve-person jury case, the court shall impanel at least two additional jurors. In every six-person jury case, the court shall impanel at least one additional juror. Alternate jurors shall not be identified until immediately prior to jury deliberations in accordance with the following. If, at the time of the submission of the case by the court to the jury for its deliberations upon a verdict, more than the number of jurors required for deliberation are available, the court shall direct the clerk to place the names of all of the available jurors except the foreperson into a box or drum and to select at random the names of the appropriate number of jurors necessary to reduce the jury to the proper number of members required for deliberation in the particular case. The jurors so selected shall not be discharged, but shall be known as alternate jurors. The alternate jurors shall be kept separate from the jury in some convenient location, subject to the same rules and procedures as govern the jury during its deliberations, until the jury has agreed upon a verdict or has been otherwise discharged.
[...]

 

[jepop]

we really do not know what the count is- could be more like 6-6... does show that the case is not "easy" and obvious

I think it shows the jurors' various personalities, attitudes and access to reasoning power are not easy and obvious in addition to cw muddying the waters with countless 'meaningless minutia' (credit @Maat99) moo

 

[KSwizzle]

It's pretty wild that the judge hand picked a foreperson guaranteeing a spot for someone, then she, and we can speculate on whether it was intentional or truly a mistake of being too tired, gave the jury a verdict sheet that didn't have the information she told Jackson she would update, AND the sheet she gave out would benefit the CW if there was a hung jury.

This case will be talked about for a long time.

 

[fluffypaste]

I now officially feel dumb for telling so many people that there is no chance of a hung jury.

 

[Yemelyan]

[...] the court shall direct the clerk to place the names of all of the available jurors except the foreperson into a box or drum and to select at random the names of the appropriate number of jurors necessary to reduce the jury to the proper number of members required for deliberation in the particular case. [...]

General Law - Part III, Title II, Chapter 234A, Section 68

malegislature.gov

Section 68: Additional jurors impanelled; alternate jurors​

Section 68. In every twelve-person jury case, the court shall impanel at least two additional jurors. In every six-person jury case, the court shall impanel at least one additional juror. Alternate jurors shall not be identified until immediately prior to jury deliberations in accordance with the following. If, at the time of the submission of the case by the court to the jury for its deliberations upon a verdict, more than the number of jurors required for deliberation are available, the court shall direct the clerk to place the names of all of the available jurors except the foreperson into a box or drum and to select at random the names of the appropriate number of jurors necessary to reduce the jury to the proper number of members required for deliberation in the particular case. The jurors so selected shall not be discharged, but shall be known as alternate jurors. The alternate jurors shall be kept separate from the jury in some convenient location, subject to the same rules and procedures as govern the jury during its deliberations, until the jury has agreed upon a verdict or has been otherwise discharged.
[...]

Also from the next part of the law we see that in MA the judge selects the foreperson: General Law - Part III, Title II, Chapter 234A, Section 68A

 

[Moonsie]

Dbm. Duplicate info

 

[mrjitty]

Also from the next part of the law we see that in MA the judge selects the foreperson: General Law - Part III, Title II, Chapter 234A, Section 68A

Thanks for the research. not everything is a conspiracy

 

[ch_13]

[...] the court shall direct the clerk to place the names of all of the available jurors except the foreperson into a box or drum and to select at random the names of the appropriate number of jurors necessary to reduce the jury to the proper number of members required for deliberation in the particular case. [...]

General Law - Part III, Title II, Chapter 234A, Section 68

malegislature.gov

Section 68: Additional jurors impanelled; alternate jurors​

Section 68. In every twelve-person jury case, the court shall impanel at least two additional jurors. In every six-person jury case, the court shall impanel at least one additional juror. Alternate jurors shall not be identified until immediately prior to jury deliberations in accordance with the following. If, at the time of the submission of the case by the court to the jury for its deliberations upon a verdict, more than the number of jurors required for deliberation are available, the court shall direct the clerk to place the names of all of the available jurors except the foreperson into a box or drum and to select at random the names of the appropriate number of jurors necessary to reduce the jury to the proper number of members required for deliberation in the particular case. The jurors so selected shall not be discharged, but shall be known as alternate jurors. The alternate jurors shall be kept separate from the jury in some convenient location, subject to the same rules and procedures as govern the jury during its deliberations, until the jury has agreed upon a verdict or has been otherwise discharged.
[...]

Also from the next part of the law we see that in MA the judge selects the foreperson: General Law - Part III, Title II, Chapter 234A, Section 68A

I appreciate you looking this up.

But I still think that it gives way too much power to a judge, any judge. After a long trial you often have an idea of how one or two jurors feel just from their demeanor.

It would be better to select the jury by lots, and then if necessary the foreperson can be chosen by the judge or selected however.

 

[ch_13]

Thanks for the research. not everything is a conspiracy

For the record, I never said it was a conspiracy. Just that it's not a good way to handle the picking of a foreperson.

 

[fluffypaste]

We are nearing 3:00 PM. It is likely there will not be a verdict today.

 

[arielilane]

@cathyrusson

Just hit 20 hours of deliberations in MA v. #KarenRead. For reference, this is one of the longest deliberations we covered on @LawCrimeNetwork . The longest was the murder of #XXXTentacion, that jury deliberated 28 hours.


2:31 PM · Jun 28, 2024

CR correcting initial post.

@cathyrusson

You are right! The longest for us was OH v. William Husel at 33 hours of deliberations and came back with not guilty.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1806762170358898930