MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #16

[TTF14]

“Paul O'Keefe also addressed an exchange he had in the courtroom with Read minutes after the mistrial was declared.”

“Throughout the trial, she liked to turn and look at me and smirk. She has never once made eye contact with my wife, Erin. So when the mistrial was announced, she turned and looked right at Erin and gave her a smirk, and then went over and was hugging and celebrating to some extent," Paul O'Keefe said. "And I just said, you know, 'You are not done yet.'"

Hmmmm. I don't believe this.

IMO MOO

 

[IDK]

Hmmmm. I don't believe this.

IMO MOO

OK…..

 

[IDK]

Duplicate

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

Speaking about POK's interview, specifically his reasoning for suspecting Karen on Jan 29th. Per his statement, it was his wife Erin who put the doubt in play, due to KR's quickly leaving the OK residence after returning from the hospital. Was that around ten or eleven am? What is not mentioned in there however, is Jen McCabe's 'version' of events had already been swirling in the air by then. JMC had contacted EVERYONE she could think of, including JOK's family. That information is included in her call log history, as long as she didn't delete it that is.

Do you think KR felt that 'funny feeling' that everyone is looking at you, and thinks you are an alcoholic murderer by that time? I would have. IMO

Poor Paul...he just can't see the trees..

Idk about anyone here, but I can't pass judgment on how or what she was feeling and why she didn't want to stay in JOK house after released from the hospital. However I can speak to wanting to be comforted by your own family, specifically parents. I know when something traumatic happens to me I want comfort from my parents and grandparents. I do not have that option anymore, but still where I would like to be. I am just not going nefarious because she didn't want to be in the house with his family. MOO

 

[thebedbug]

Is the KR footage with her lawyer the video/discussion that was removed? Or, was it something to do with the turtle and/or blogger?

I saw a note that something was removed - but it doesn't help if we don't know the topic.

 

[Aquarian]

Is the KR footage with her lawyer the video/discussion that was removed? Or, was it something to do with the turtle and/or blogger?

I saw a note that something was removed - but it doesn't help if we don't know the topic.

The first one you mentioned.

 

[rogue ant]

Hmmmm. I don't believe this.

IMO MOO

Neither do I.

 

[rebelchild]

That is a great interview and my heart breaks for the O'K family.

 

[CourtandSims4]

Hearing Paul O'Keefe's side, I understand why they feel the way they do. Karen essentially was taking responsibility for doing it until she didn't. And distancing herself immediately is a very odd response to the circumstances.

From their perspective, it's going to be different because they lived it. The rest of us are kind of working backwards and not really putting ourselves in their shoes to truly imagine what it is like to have this shocking event happen in your family, and one of the last people who saw him is talking about needing to remember the bad times - which is completely rational to take as needing to feel better about them being gone. This is also not a typical reaction.

If your significant other passes away, you wouldn't say, "let me remember all the fights so I feel better about their death." If anything, you will feel regret and sorrow about your last interaction being a giant blowup and not ever getting a chance to make it right with them.

So, yea, I understand why the family feel the way that they do. Nothing Karen did made sense that morning, including thinking she had hit him before actually getting into the car and hitting John's SUV. Oh well. I hope that they can find some peace somewhere, somehow. It's going to be a long road.

 

[Wishbone]

Hmmmm. I don't believe this.

IMO MOO

Agree with you. It's not what I saw going on in that courtroom for weeks.

 

[TTF14]

Agree with you. It's not what I saw going on in that courtroom for weeks.

It sounds very much like an excuse a man who got caught threatening a woman would come up with....."I was just protecting my woman!"

IMO MOO

 

[TIGER0822]

My personal point of view: I still believe that more information points at KR doing it. However, Alternative Juror appears to be an educated, diligent person who sat in the room and took good notes, as she states. She, with the notes, and having sat there, believes that the case did not meet the standards for reasonable doubt. I can weigh in both versions, because nothing looks the same from inside the courthouse.

Not sure that Proctor planted evidence. If he did, he would not plant evidence for himself. He would plant evidence if not allowed to enter the house, if advised to make it a quick open-and-shut case, if there was zero evidence of a car trauma, and, mostly, if he didn’t know KR’s circumstances at all.

SODDI defense is common. The case when the police becomes that very “D” who “DI” is interesting in itself. I think we all pay attention to AJ, but Yanetti was instrumental in organizing KR’s specific defense. And there was evidence missing, as Proctor never entered BA’s house, and the case required specialists to testify, and is still missing bits and pieces.

Do I believe KR’s lawyers? No. Do I see why Yanetti believed the case was defensible? Absolutely. Do I think it is “not our typical case”, from both sides? Surely. But mostly, the guilty verdict missed evidence, and there was too much noise around the case.

I expect Stoughton case to be more telling.

Juror #3 From listening to her interview, I understood that in her opinion there was reasonable doubt.

 

[waldojabba]

Yeah I'm not from these parts and never been in MA but doesn't seem unreasonable to assume some sort of chain of command and rankings in an investigative unit. Plus I doubt Bukhenic would mislead about that under oath. I recall the testimony slightly differently but am bearing down on a jumbled up memory so ICBW! Bukhenic was before Proctor so Proctor's texts weren't in evidence yet. I believe it may have been some trooper named Tully (qm), was he a lieutenant (sp qm) or something, who was on the stand after Proctor qm; he could have been the one who said he'd spoken to Proctor about 'inappropriate' texts, bad boy as you say. I remember he was a bit vague about the whole episode but was by all appearances higher in rank than both Proctor and Bukhenic. ICBW jmo.

*qm equals question mark as that key has decided to stop functioning once again on laptop.

You are correct it was Tully ! Apologies and thank you for the correction

 

[Maat99]

Juror #3 From listening to her interview, I understood that in her opinion there was reasonable doubt.

Correct. Here is what she said:
“she didn’t feel prosecutors had convinced her beyond a reasonable doubt that Read was guilty of the charges, WBZ reported.”

Juror in Karen Read trial speaks out. Will we hear from others?

The names of the jurors who sat on Karen Read’s trial will not be released, though they may choose to speak publicly about the case.

www.boston.com

 

[nightowl1975]

Seriously... the logical thing that anyone would think would be that he crashed on a couch - not that he's dead.

It seems to me, after watching and hearing about their relationship dynamics, that KR is an anxious attachment type. Normal people don’t call someone 50+ times in one night either. That said, I can absolutely understand jumping to the worst bc this is exactly how my brain works. I wish it didn’t. It’s always been this way.

An example: my college aged daughter left around 10pm to go to the gas station for a slush and some candy. I hate it when any of my girls go to gas stations after dark. We all watch Criminal Minds! But she’s an adult. So off she went. I’m anxious the whole time she’s gone. Around the time I would’ve expected her back, maybe 20-25 minutes later, the doorbell rings. Remember it’s after 10pm.

My mind INSTANTLY goes to “is that the police here to tell me she’s been kidnapped at the gas station?” Hello. This is NOT LOGICAL. But it’s my first thought. Turns out it was the pizza delivery guy ringing the doorbell bc one of my other young adult kids had ordered pizza. This is a common occurrence, minimum once a week that the doorbell rings after 10pm for pizza delivery. Yet my mind instantly goes to it must be the police with terrible news.

So, yeah, it’s not logical for her to have instantly thought something was terribly wrong. But it doesn’t shock me, nor is it suspicious. It’s how my mind works too.

 

[lilyk]

Thank you for explaining the process! Do you think there are grounds so far as what we know to terminate his employment?

Who knows. If he used a state issued phone to say the things he did about someone he was actively investigating, then I could see that being considered gross misconduct or dereliction of duty or misuse of equipment and grounds for dismissal especially if there is contract language around that. And certainly if he's done it before.

So far he's only admitted to sending the texts, everything else that seems suspect may or may not be part of the internal investigation, or he could have several separate discoveries looking at numerous suspected code of conduct violations taking place concurrently. His past work history will be considered in minor offenses but the key is what the states idea of gross misconduct is.

My company has four levels of corrective action. Level 1 and 2 are minor and handled within the local department, just the employee, a union steward, and the manager. Typically everything starts at 1, but can move up quickly. An employee can be at different levels of corrective action for different issues. If the employee corrected their actions and did what they were supposed to the corrective action records were expunged after a year if they were a level one or two offense. Once something rises to a level three the internal organizer and HR gots involved. Gross misconduct could go straight to level four but there has to be undeniable evidence of misconduct. I would think he is smart enough to invoke his Weingarten Rights and have union representation during the process but if not that certainly makes it easier to fire him.

All that is public now is probably all that will be ever be revealed regarding OP's employee investigation and any disciplinary action as he has a right to privacy. However, if he's charged with perjury, tampering, obstruction, RICO or any number of other things that seem like a possibility then obviously that would be public and one could make some inferences if he's relieved of employment that they are or could be connected. And if the state is privy to those charges coming I suspect that would be part of a decision making process. But I don't expect to hear any details of their internal investigation, the findings or why they reached their conclusion.


All IMO.

 

[thebedbug]

It seems to me, after watching and hearing about their relationship dynamics, that KR is an anxious attachment type. Normal people don’t call someone 50+ times in one night either. That said, I can absolutely understand jumping to the worst bc this is exactly how my brain works. I wish it didn’t. It’s always been this way.

Well... I don't think the idea is that she called him 50+ times because that's a normal late night/early morning for her. She was calling 50+ times and raging into the phone because she had run him over and was checking to see if he was alive/trying (as crazy as it might sound) to create some kind of an alibi for herself.

 

[TIGER0822]

Well... I don't think the idea is that she called him 50+ times because that's a normal late night/early morning for her. She was calling 50+ times and raging into the phone because she had run him over and was checking to see if he was alive/trying (as crazy as it might sound) to create some kind of an alibi for herself.

Or maybe because she was not going to babysit his kids while he partied.
Drunken rage:
JO answer the phone, where the f are you
Answer the phone I f hate you,
Where the f are you . this sounds exactly like an enraged alcoholic.
If she was scared she hit him, she would have gone back, or played sweet nice.
MOO

 

[kittythehare]

Or maybe because she was not going to babysit his kids while he partied.
Drunken rage:
JO answer the phone, where the f are you
Answer the phone I f hate you,
Where the f are you . this sounds exactly like an enraged alcoholic.
If she was scared she hit him, she would have gone back, or played sweet nice.
MOO

absolutely.
I'm not at all sure she was drunk, I do think she was in desperation stage of co-dependency. I think she either believed he was with a woman or that she had let him walk home drunk and without a coat in a blizzard and it was likely he had got hit by a snow plough en route. She would have been aware he did not know the host well.

Likewise when she discovered the object of her obsession was dead she likely entered a deep deep state of shock and alarm.
'Remembering the bad times' would have been a psychological trick to stop her falling into that chasm of despair.

At this point she would have been highly susceptible to the words of others.

That's my opinion as viewed through my own filters and experience.

The facts however are unaltered.
He did not die from a vehicular impact.

 

[Aquarian]

Or maybe because she was not going to babysit his kids while he partied.
Drunken rage:
JO answer the phone, where the f are you
Answer the phone I f hate you,
Where the f are you . this sounds exactly like an enraged alcoholic.
If she was scared she hit him, she would have gone back, or played sweet nice.
MOO

Well I’m sure y’all will correct me if I’m wrong. But the boy was at a sleep over. And wasn’t the older one at a friends until some kid hurt themselves and the father drove her back to John’s? That’s why they went and got her in the AM realizing she was alone?