MA - Remains of 3 infants found, Erika Murray charged, Blackstone, Sept 2014

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But documents requested by the I-Team show a number of police calls to 23 St. Paul Street since 2000, 29 visits in all, proving Erika Murray and Raymond Rivera were on the police and social service radar.

“There’s enough of them that it really makes me wonder why didn’t anyone connect the dots?” said Mary McGeown of the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children.

WBZ asked her to take a look at the documents.

The reports include noise complaints, three school checks for absent students, three animal welfare complaints.
There were also two visits by the health inspector for trash in the yard.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/09/...tone-home-29-times-before-gruesome-discovery/
 
lillybell said:
What a shocking case, I am appalled at the way these young children were living.
There's so many questions with this one, how on earth did it go unnoticed for so long?
I feel for the older children and pray they are somewhere where they can just be children. I can not imagine what they have seen.
The younger two, I pray for. How can mum say he was attached to these babies and leave them in such a place. The three yr old will need so much therapy.
A huge Thankyou to the neighbour for calling 911. A true hero
Click to expand...

One can hope they are in the care of someone who has held them nonstop, bathed & fed them and they are sleeping in a warm bed.


Sadly, in MA, the services sux so I pray the above is true. I am sure they hand picked the care givers for this case...God I hope.
 
On Dr. Drew now - they are reading from her FB posts. (ie: She can't wait to see her kids, she is bored to death without them). Describing the actual conditions of the home, discussing whether she might have some cognitive impairment, she hid 5 pregnancies, lots of questions about the boyfriend living in the home. Guest is outraged Dad didn't intervene on behalf of the oldest two kids living in these conditions. She can be held accountable for the murder of the those children. Comments on her FB describe her acting one way and live another,but ME made up another FB account of ficticous woman who was supposed to be Mother to the youngest children she was babysitting. (another pseudo-transcript)

ETA: Further discussion about questions of low IQ or low mental functioning. PhD said she didn't think this was "mental illness" but more poor problem solving skills. Childhood friend/neighbor of the family growing up said EM was quiet, good in school, graduated highschool, not low IQ functioning but a normal kid from a normal family. EM is reported to be very close to her own Mother. Friend defends her saying hard to know what was going through her mind but wanted more info on the boyfriend and wondered if he threatened her. Guests discussed whether she took him literally when he said he would leave her if she had more kids. Pics of the basement portion shown, Dr. Drew describes that portion of the home filthy.
 
tlcya said:
But documents requested by the I-Team show a number of police calls to 23 St. Paul Street since 2000, 29 visits in all, proving Erika Murray and Raymond Rivera were on the police and social service radar.

“There’s enough of them that it really makes me wonder why didn’t anyone connect the dots?” said Mary McGeown of the Massachusetts Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children.

WBZ asked her to take a look at the documents.

The reports include noise complaints, three school checks for absent students, three animal welfare complaints.
There were also two visits by the health inspector for trash in the yard.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/09/...tone-home-29-times-before-gruesome-discovery/
Click to expand...

Why? How did this go on so long?
 
wenwe4 said:
On Dr. Drew now - they are reading from her FB posts. (ie: She can't wait to see her kids, she is bored to death without them). Describing the actual conditions of the home, discussing whether she might have some cognitive impairment, she hid 5 pregnancies, lots of questions about the boyfriend living in the home. Guest is outraged Dad didn't intervene on behalf of the oldest two kids living in these conditions. She can be held accountable for the murder of the those children. Comments on her FB describe her acting one way and live another,but ME made up another FB account of ficticous woman who was supposed to be Mother to the youngest children she was babysitting. (another pseudo-transcript)

ETA: Further discussion about questions of low IQ or low mental functioning. PhD said she didn't think this was "mental illness" but more poor problem solving skills. Childhood friend/neighbor of the family growing up said EM was quiet, good in school, graduated highschool, not low IQ functioning but a normal kid from a normal family. EM is reported to be very close to her own Mother. Friend defends her saying hard to know what was going through her mind but wanted more info on the boyfriend and wondered if he threatened her. Guests discussed whether she took him literally when he said he would leave her if she had more kids. Pics of the basement portion shown, Dr. Drew describes that portion of the home filthy.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of Tammy Moorer. Perfect life on FB, perfectly messy reality.
 
Why isn't boyfriend charged with this hoarding? child endangerment? He is responsible also for being there and letting this all go down.
 
Linda7NJ said:
In my experience, most people reserve "obese" for people fluffier than themselves;)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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True, that- I had a friend today refer to some other folks I know as 'very large people'- she's about the same size, just not as tall.

This case is mind boggling, though.
 
A family friend on Dr Drew said Murray was VERY CLOSE to her mom............................no words............
 
Another thing that can lead to neglect of a home, at least, is physical illness. When I was younger I had super-severe anemia without realizing it, to the point of eventually ending up in the hospital and nearly getting a blood transfusion, it was so dangerously low. In the months leading up to that my house cleanliness declined. Trash didn't get taken out, bathrooms were infrequently cleaned, kitty litter piled up, etc. I was spending all my energy just with personal upkeep and my job, I spent all of my time outside of work utterly exhausted, mostly in bed. I just thought I was depressed and lazy, and was embarrassed about how lazy I was which is why I never asked for help (until I ended up passing out and in an ambulance, anyway).

Though that doesn't seem to be an issue here, from anything I heard. Just pointing out it's not just mental illness, but physical illness, that can lead to this.
 
passionflower said:
A family friend on Dr Drew said Murray was VERY CLOSE to her mom............................no words............
Click to expand...

So was shannon gore, and her mother (I can't remember fo sure) didn't know about her daughters other 2 pregnancies/children.
 
rabidstoat said:
Another thing that can lead to neglect of a home, at least, is physical illness. When I was younger I had super-severe anemia without realizing it, to the point of eventually ending up in the hospital and nearly getting a blood transfusion, it was so dangerously low. In the months leading up to that my house cleanliness declined. Trash didn't get taken out, bathrooms were infrequently cleaned, kitty litter piled up, etc. I was spending all my energy just with personal upkeep and my job, I spent all of my time outside of work utterly exhausted, mostly in bed. I just thought I was depressed and lazy, and was embarrassed about how lazy I was which is why I never asked for help (until I ended up passing out and in an ambulance, anyway).

Though that doesn't seem to be an issue here, from anything I heard. Just pointing out it's not just mental illness, but physical illness, that can lead to this.
Click to expand...

I just wanted to say bless you. you just described what my last year has been like and for the exact same health reason. I am hopefully getting my life back but your description of how slowly your household's level of cleanliness can decline while ill over a long period is dead on. I have had to rely on the kids more to help out with things and their standards are not exactly up to mine.

In this case tho, it seems after first baby she and RR lived with her parents. Then during and shortly after pregnancy with second child they resided with RR sister. Eventually the sister moved out.

I suspect she was a young mother, first living with an adult mother figure who took care of the household, then sister in law of sorts who also took care of the household and then was left to her own devices and found it not to her taste. So she simply didn't do it. That is my take at this point and yes it is based in part on RR's alleged complaints to friends that he did not know why he should work all week to support family while she sat home doing nothing and they all lived in filth. Not going ot comment on my thoughts about his abdication of responsibility based on him bringing home the paycheck so it wasn't his "job" to also clean house he and his children also lived in. :censored:
 
I noticed on some of the video that there appears to be an outside entrance to the basement (which was also taped up with red hazardous warning tape). In reading some of the comments about other Mother's who hid their pregnancies and their lifestyle - Casey Anthony came to mind with the double lifestyle as well. Someone who could totally compartmentalize having a dead baby(ies) in her trunk (or closet), deny the origin of the stench of death, and go to great lengths to coverup what they were really doing. Remember her psych eval? (Nada, not a thing).

Such tragedy - such deceit - such sadness. She needs to be confronted with the reality of the consequences of her decisions - IMO. Whatever the reason she chose these paths in life - the children had to pay with their lives and quality of life.
 
I just looked at the house on streetview. First, I notice that there is somebody in the back yard. Second, I notice the house looks mildly behind on upkeep. Roof is mossy, gutters sagging, etc. Then the last thing that I notice, and the most surprising to me, there is no hint of clutter outside. The grass is cut, the porch is clear, even the recycle and trashbins are lined up and not overflowing.

I've mentioned up thread that in essence, I'm a slob. Well not in essence, I am. I am not on top of my housework and clutter. But it spills out. My car is dirty. Toys and papers are in the yard where the kids leave them, stuff is piled on the porch. I'm not proud of the way things look, but I still can't muster the effort to clean it or hide it the way this woman has. This double life she had going is amazing in its contrast between the reality and the facade.

It's flat out startling. Even without the horrors contained in that house. Hoarding houses are usually pretty easy to spot, the only hint this house had was the covered windows.

Now I can tell you, had I seen some things first hand, I would have known the house was a hoard, but I could have never guess the horrors behind those doors. (Like I mentioned up thread, the kids pics taken outside, the litter of kittens, the close ups of the food. If I knew her IRL, I would have figured out quick between those things and the covered windows.)

Why didn't anybody reach out and try to help? Why didn't her boyfriend care to put more into the house?
 
Oblio said:
I just looked at the house on streetview. First, I notice that there is somebody in the back yard. Second, I notice the house looks mildly behind on upkeep. Roof is mossy, gutters sagging, etc. Then the last thing that I notice, and the most surprising to me, there is no hint of clutter outside. The grass is cut, the porch is clear, even the recycle and trashbins are lined up and not overflowing.

I've mentioned up thread that in essence, I'm a slob. Well not in essence, I am. I am not on top of my housework and clutter. But it spills out. My car is dirty. Toys and papers are in the yard where the kids leave them, stuff is piled on the porch. I'm not proud of the way things look, but I still can't muster the effort to clean it or hide it the way this woman has. This double life she had going is amazing in its contrast between the reality and the facade.

It's flat out startling. Even without the horrors contained in that house. Hoarding houses are usually pretty easy to spot, the only hint this house had was the covered windows.

Now I can tell you, had I seen some things first hand, I would have known the house was a hoard, but I could have never guess the horrors behind those doors. (Like I mentioned up thread, the kids pics taken outside, the litter of kittens, the close ups of the food. If I knew her IRL, I would have figured out quick between those things and the covered windows.)

Why didn't anybody reach out and try to help? Why didn't her boyfriend care to put more into the house?
Click to expand...

She IMO put a lot of work, time and effort into keeping her secrets.
She knew it was WRONG, she made the choices. I have zero sympathy for her. None.
Obviously, she has issues, but they don't rise to the level of not knowing right from wrong.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Those babies would've been much better off had she surrendered them to a hospital/fire station. All the time she spent on FB, she could've found another option for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Linda7NJ said:
She IMO put a lot of work, time and effort into keeping her secrets.
She knew it was WRONG, she made the choices. I have zero sympathy for her. None.
Obviously, she has issues, but they don't rise to the level of not knowing right from wrong. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

This! Thank you Linda7! This is the very reason I am not giving her a "pass" for having a mental illness. Many, many people suffer with issues of mental illness - but it does not explain this situation. She was able to decipher what were acceptable behaviors and what were not. She knew what to hide, what image she projected in her "public" persona, and how others feel about appropriate ways to raise children. She could lie and get away with it with family members, but did not have that ability with the general public.

The only "needs" she was able to consistently meet were her own. Personally, I believe her selfishness is the absolute underlying cause of what happened in this home. Clearly, she is not able to put her children's needs before her own. Each and every time she gave birth, heard the cries of those babies, fed them, diapered them, chose not to hold them, chose not to talk to or cuddle them, chose not to clean them up, chose not to take out trash, chose not to ask for help, chose to leave them unattended/alone/vulnerable - she knew what societal expectations were of her. She knew what it was like to love and snuggle an infant and how babies learn from human interaction. She knew that children reach developmental milestones with assistance, love, and care from a loving and trustworthy care-provider. She chose not to offer a reasonable quality of life for 5 infants! (ok - off my rant for a bit)
 
Oblio said:
I just looked at the house on streetview. First, I notice that there is somebody in the back yard. Second, I notice the house looks mildly behind on upkeep. Roof is mossy, gutters sagging, etc. Then the last thing that I notice, and the most surprising to me, there is no hint of clutter outside. The grass is cut, the porch is clear, even the recycle and trashbins are lined up and not overflowing.

I've mentioned up thread that in essence, I'm a slob. Well not in essence, I am. I am not on top of my housework and clutter. But it spills out. My car is dirty. Toys and papers are in the yard where the kids leave them, stuff is piled on the porch. I'm not proud of the way things look, but I still can't muster the effort to clean it or hide it the way this woman has. This double life she had going is amazing in its contrast between the reality and the facade.

It's flat out startling. Even without the horrors contained in that house. Hoarding houses are usually pretty easy to spot, the only hint this house had was the covered windows.

Now I can tell you, had I seen some things first hand, I would have known the house was a hoard, but I could have never guess the horrors behind those doors. (Like I mentioned up thread, the kids pics taken outside, the litter of kittens, the close ups of the food. If I knew her IRL, I would have figured out quick between those things and the covered windows.)

Why didn't anybody reach out and try to help? Why didn't her boyfriend care to put more into the house?
Click to expand...


I say this with love...please get help. If not for yourself, then for your children. That's not fair to them. It's really unhealthy for them, mentally as much as physically...not to mention if they say something at school or someone finds out....I'm sure you're at the point of being overwhelmed & it's hard to even know where to start. Flylady is a great place to start for crisis cleaning. Again, I say it with WS love. If you are near me, I will help you. :) I had a aunt who was exactly in the same position. Everyone needs a good friend, even someone to share the crappy stuff with...You deserve a neat (not Martha Stewart) home to relax in..instead of being anxious just looking around.



Today, just clean the kitchen sink. Nothing more. xo
http://www.flylady.net/d/getting-started/flying-lessons/crisis-cleaning/
 
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