MA - Remains of 3 infants found, Erika Murray charged, Blackstone, Sept 2014

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Can someone explain the "need" for a childlock on the lower cabinet? Does that mean she would bring the babies down to the kitchen?

I also find it interesting that EM had asked the neighbor to keep an eye on her son the day the babies were found - but never would ask someone to keep an eye on the babies upstairs - letting her secret out. There were reports that she d been working at "Shaws" (which appears to be a supermarket), but I am not sure how recent that was.

I am still baffled by the statement "couldn't afford" to have more kids - yet she did. Who purchased the diapers?
 
Does anyone know how many bedrooms are in the house? Were there any on the main floor of the house? I get the impression there were at least 2 bedrooms upstairs from the MSM stories. Where did EM and the oldest 2 children sleep?

Things of interest to me that she posted on her FB page....I hope this is okay because my understanding is as long as I'm not linking from social media and it's paraphrased it's acceptable, forgive me if I'm wrong. :

According to what I read and saw pics of on her FB page a mother cat had a litter of kittens the end of Mar. 2011/beginning of Apr. 2011. If anything she posted can be believed, she moved the cat/kittens to her bedroom to keep them away from the dogs.

She mentioned during the first part of Aug. 2012 that her kids had friends sleeping over on a couple of occasions.

I keep going back to what the neighbor (that called 911) said when considering what RR, the kids, or anyone that was over may have heard...The neighbor mentioned in one of the MSM stories that when she entered the house that she could hear the babies crying upstairs. I wonder if that was if: A - it was as she immediately entered the door to the home, B - when she entered and could hear them because a door leading to the upstairs may have been open, or C - she recalled it as just entering even though she may have already been going up the stairs (faulty sequential recall type thing)? Does anyone know if a door to the upstairs has been mentioned?

I'm like many of you...The more I read, the more questions I have!

So that's that FWIW...
 
iamnotagolem said:
I think hoping it is all an exaggeration seems unlikely, $25k worth of work over 4 days, the house has been condemned w/signs posted that it's uninhabitable? I'd say we got a pretty clear picture of what the house looked like.

It's interesting that a "friend" of RR's is saying the house wasn't that bad. This friend doesn't have a name?

I just can't get past how bad the house must have smelled. I've been to houses that smell quite unpleasant, there are no dead bodies, no piles of diapers, just general uncleanliness.
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Probably just protecting themselves because they did nothing about it. This house was a grave site for 3 little bubbies and cats/dogs carcasses and a living hellhole for 4 children.
 
Dr. Drew is interviewing a woman who was diagnosed "paranoid schizophrenic" and had a psychotic break and stabbed her son to death. She spent 4 and half years in a mental hospital getting stabilized on meds and intense therapy, gaining knowledge of her diagnosis and what the medications can do for her. Her children knew that this was not her normal behavior on the day she committed this crime, they forgive her and she has learned she cannot trust her thinking when she is having a paranoid thought. Their discussion about the different between someone who truly suffered from a mental illness that distorted their thinking in that psychotic moment period of time vs. someone who is just plain evil.

My personal opinion is EM is more of an Anti-Social Personality Disorder with Sociopathic features. She certainly must suffer from some depression and possibly anxiety and significant symptoms of Obsessive Compulsive - hoarding type disorders.
 
tlcya said:
IF she killed those infants then I would speculate the youngest two were not killed because one of the older children saw or heard them and therefore the story of "I am just babysitting them" was manufactured. harder to kill a child someone knows exists. Just thinking out loud here.
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I kindly and respectfully disagree on that being her reason for allowing them to live. She could have easily passed off the absence of either of those babies by just saying that their mom or dad picked them up.
 
If Dr. Drew is trying to draw any kind of parallel between EM and the schizophrenic guest....Well, I really hope that isn't the angle or position he's taking. I agree with you, wenwe. I absolutely (in all my armchair psychiatry) feel it is some type of co-occurring disorder, such as a personality disorder and depression. That's just based on her reactions (or lack thereof), the acts themselves, and statements made by others.

I wonder if she is on any type of psychotropic medication or has ever received any type of psychiatric treatment. I got the distinct impression her mom may be a large contributing factor in her need to feel accepted/validated as a mother herself just by what I've read. Which makes me wonder how much her mom may have known. I definitely feel others, outside of her 2 eldest children, knew some of what was going on and enabled this situation.

At this time, I am more interested in knowing what happened than I am punishing EM/RR....Knowing what the surviving children went through will help in their treatment and rehabilitation. Nothing is going to change what happened, unfortunately. If this turns out to be a case of plain evil and cruelty - I will be joining others with the stake(s) and matches. In the meantime, I'm TRYING to stay reserved in my judgements.
 
Conditions of the animals rescued from the home:

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio..._pets_likely_the_only_comfort_for_children_in

Both Red and Aimee — named by the people who rescued them — were thin and infested with fleas. Red had a full-body yeast infection and had lost fur. The animal control officer tried to bathe Red with medicated shampoo but her skin was so raw she howled in pain, said Kim Agricola, a shelter founder.
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Red is on antibiotics for a painful eye condition that requires surgery. She has “terrible teeth,” infected ears and Lyme disease. Sores and small bites — possibly from rats — covered the cat’s body. She also has a respiratory cough. The nonprofit shelter is seeking about $4,500 in donations to cover the costs.
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I'm going to speculate that the other children were perhaps a different gender than the two she kept. No real reason, just a hunch.
 
Oblio said:
I'm going to speculate that the other children were perhaps a different gender than the two she kept. No real reason, just a hunch.
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One of each I thought?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I've read nearly every article on the case that I can find. I think they were both girls. The information that was originally released stated that they were both girls. Later, the neighbor that found them reported that she initially thought the 3 year old child was a boy, based on appearance. That caused some confusion among the media.
 
Based on comments EM made she thinks her son is a "hand full" to deal and she was glad her daughter was born first...Maybe the other the 3 dead infants were boys? I got the feeling she favors her eldest daughter over her eldest son. IMO Maybe she just wanted girls? Idk.

I am so sad about the condition of the poor animal...Where can people donate money to the rescue or whomever is overseeing their treatment?...Now THAT makes me pissed off. Those poor defenseless animals. I am so happy they found animals alive and not just remains. My heart breaks of the pain and suffering they're going through. (sorry if this is a loopy-loo post...I've taken my sleep meds and it makes me stoooopid sometimes..lol)
 
SaucyGal said:
Based on comments EM made she thinks her son is a "hand full" to deal and she was glad her daughter was born first...Maybe the other the 3 dead infants were boys? I got the feeling she favors her eldest daughter over her eldest son. IMO Maybe she just wanted girls? Idk.

I am so sad about the condition of the poor animal...Where can people donate money to the rescue or whomever is overseeing their treatment?...Now THAT makes me pissed off. Those poor defenseless animals. I am so happy they found animals alive and not just remains. My heart breaks of the pain and suffering they're going through. (sorry if this is a loopy-loo post...I've taken my sleep meds and it makes me stoooopid sometimes..lol)
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That's the feeling I got, too. I'm thinking she couldn't resist keeping the little girls.
 
This story is so sad. I agree there's definitely a strong mental health issue here - she was living in those conditions as well, not using them as a punishment. She was giving birth to babies alone. Seems like major depression-type issues of the kind that cause someone to just disconnect, and I agree that compartmentalization likely played a huge role. It doesn't seem so much like a hoarding behavior as it does an inability to address basic needs. A lot of the hoarders on TV who live in filth seem to have an additional problem in that they become so overwhelmed by everything that they can't even pick up rotting food or animals and are comfortable living around bugs. That to them is more comfortable than taking action to get things in order. That is definitely a mental disconnect that can't just be summarized as lazy or evil. All I can feel is sadness about this. Obviously she has a lot more issues as evidenced by the situation with all of the children, and I hope they all get help. And the dad too. Obviously they are people who don't seem to come from great circumstances, and that's in part why this went on for so long, and they didn't have the awareness needed to seek help. The story about the dad sure is suspicious, but we'll know soon enough. Either way, if the guy was apparently ok with what was going on, I still can't look at him with rage - to me it's just pathetic and sad and if you would be okay with something like that, you probably have low expectations in life because of your own experiences.
 
SaucyGal said:
Does anyone know how many bedrooms are in the house? Were there any on the main floor of the house? I get the impression there were at least 2 bedrooms upstairs from the MSM stories. Where did EM and the oldest 2 children sleep?
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I've read so many articles and I can't find the exact one at the moment, but I read that the cape cod style home had 3 bedrooms upstairs; however, one was so full of clutter and garbage that it was almost impossible to open the door. (I will keep looking for the source, sorry!).

According to an article on telegram.com (not sure of it's accuracy), EM's attorney presents doubt that RR was unaware of the conditions on the home:

Keith S. Halpern said in an interview Tuesday that reports that Raymond, or Ramon, Rivera, 37, lived apart in the basement of the six-room Cape Cod-style house at 23 St. Paul St. were wrong.

"He was not living in the basement. There was no bathroom in the basement. There was no kitchen in the basement. He wasn't sleeping in the basement," Mr. Halpern said. "The notion that he didn't know what was going on in the rest of the house is ridiculous. This is a level of blindness that's just impossible to understand. It makes no sense."
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http://www.telegram.com/article/20140916/NEWS/309169546/1116&Template=printart
 
Thanks sapofamily. I was thinking the room that was so filled with filth was where the 3 yr old was found. Thinking back now, I guess the neighbor couldn't have gotten in there if that were the case. I believe I read the police had to forcibly open a door and the smell was really bad. So, I assume that was the room the remains and majority of the filth were found. A disturbing thought, what if she kept the diapers and trash to "mask" the smell of decomposition? That would show intentional deception on her part, wouldn't it? I'm going to go back through some of the stories and see if it says the remains of animals and infants were found in the same area of the home. Gah, that makes me ill...I know we have to wait for the facts, in the meantime my mind is just turning.

I hate when MSM accuracy and integrity go out the window during stories like this (link below)....as if the facts aren't incredible enough. While I am not defending EM by any means, it ticks me off when journalist decide to take artistic license to sensationalize such a story. I watched the video, heard the interview with the neighbor, then read the article and at no time did the neighbor say anything about asking EM about the deceased infants. The neighbor couldn't have known according to the timeline of when those remains were found! Also exaggerating the amount of pot that was found in the basement - 1 plant, some baggies, and buds = a lot. RR is a veritable cartel unto himself it seems. Blah! Irresponsible journalism, whaddya gonna do? *sigh* Sorry for ranting and also for all the typo's in my last post...wow my sleep meds had really kicked in! lol

http://myfox8.com/2014/09/16/neighb...-when-asked-about-feces-covered-kids-squalor/
 
I think the third bedroom, the one whose door needed forcing was the room where the worst of the garbage, diaper hoard lived. Also the room where the dead infants where found. I think once she could no longer shove the crap (literally) into one room it began to fill the other two bedrooms as well.
 
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