MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #3

[Rocky1]

Wachusett Street is the same as Rt 31, though it might only be called Wachusett St in Holden, not sure if it stays wachusett street when you cross into Princeton. RT 31 runs parallel to Brooks Station Rd. If you go south on it, you have to take a left onto Ball Hill Rd to get to 31, right would take you toward Rutland. (Which is where the Heifer Project is. BTW this is an international organization who works on getting livestock to villagers in developing countries so they can feed and support themselves. It's under the whole premise of "you give a man a fish he eats for a day, you teach a man to fish he eats for life", it's a pretty cool organization but very off topic).

If you go north in Brooks Station Rd, you go right at Boylston St which takes you to the center of town and the rt 31 junction.

As far as where people work....most people in Princeton and surrounding towns, don't work in town. These are mostly bedroom communities. Most people work in the medical or technology fields and travel to Worcester, or Framingham, or even as far as Boston to work.

Businesses that do exist in town are a few Xmas tree farms, a knitting store, an antique store, an old farm house that use to be a resturaunt that's used only for weddings now, 2 resturaunts, the ski mountain, a small market, a pizza place, a weird ice cream place, a bank, perhaps a im forgetting one or two things, and then town utilities offices, which all butt the light dept are located at the town center.

It's a fairly affluent community but it's small, rural, hilly, and beautiful.

Specific locations:

Her Body - her body was found on the end of an old road called Connors Lane. You can see it on a map. Her body was found along that road roughly 100 ft in a believe (but various reports differed in distance from Rd) - right side of Rd, going north.

Her Moms house is on the same side of the road as Connors lane, and is angled sideways and has 3 dormer Windows on the 3rd floor, which makes it easy to find on a map.

From what I can tell looking at the map, it doesn't appear any home would have had a clear shot of her mothers home, or of the path she was found on. The foliage btw homes appears thick, and would have been at its peak of denseness in early August making visibility even more challenges to watch someone from your home, at least I'd think.

For no other reason than trying to keep the facts as straight as possible.... Brook Station Rd. in Princeton turns into Wachusett Rd. if you drive south. It dead ends in Rutland on Glenwood Rd. It is not Rt 31. Rt. 31 runs parallel, (same as brook station rd) Not a big issue at all but if someone is trying to track by map, they may be confused, so I thought it is worth mentioning.

 

[rosesfromangels]

THanks everyone, I finally "walked" to Connor Lane. Google street view wouldn't let me walk down Connor Lane, but I could see down the road.
The area is really beautiful, and my theory of someone seeing her from their own house doesn't hold up; it's too woody and dense.
I can see why Vanessa enjoyed running down that road.

Based on what I'm looking at, the Perp would have had to drag her quite a ways from the main road to down Connor Lane. I'm having trouble imagining someone pulling that off, given that while this is secluded, it *is* a residential area. "Walking around" I can see this is upper scale, there are signs asking to watch for children, etc. And a Sunday afternoon....people are OUT and about! Walking, golfing, jogging, going to and fro church, etc. This was highly risky. Highly. But the only time he could "nab" her due to her jogging schedule.

I think he had his "gear" already stashed in this spot, and he lay in wait. I don't think he drove off, I think he had his gear in a backpack and took off on foot. Maybe his car was parked at the closest church, or he walked back home. I don't think his car was close by.

 

[FindHG]

THanks everyone, I finally "walked" to Connor Lane. Google street view wouldn't let me walk down Connor Lane, but I could see down the road.
The area is really beautiful, and my theory of someone seeing her from their own house doesn't hold up; it's too woody and dense.
I can see why Vanessa enjoyed running down that road.

Based on what I'm looking at, the Perp would have had to drag her quite a ways from the main road to down Connor Lane. I'm having trouble imagining someone pulling that off, given that while this is secluded, it *is* a residential area. "Walking around" I can see this is upper scale, there are signs asking to watch for children, etc. And a Sunday afternoon....people are OUT and about! Walking, golfing, jogging, going to and fro church, etc. This was highly risky. Highly. But the only time he could "nab" her due to her jogging schedule.

I think he had his "gear" already stashed in this spot, and he lay in wait. I don't think he drove off, I think he had his gear in a backpack and took off on foot. Maybe his car was parked at the closest church, or he walked back home. I don't think his car was close by.

I agree Roses, there a number of parking lots around. It would have minimized the risks of being caught out.

Found Eucalyputz's great case map from earlier https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1nIRq-XXrkEXpsON3jsK8fqod0u0

has more data points than Forager's https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=10h5GSiMVTLDNlOKN-8IJpJ59Ao0

I don't know why Roses, but where Brooks Station and Ball Hill intersect is the one places that I keep going back to thinking about Vanessa's brutal murder. Somebody visiting the graveyard on Sundays taking Brooks Station to it maybe? What do you make of it looking around?
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.419...4!1sOkcU5pN0yF7oCUkkbtwv2Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[rosesfromangels]

I agree Roses, there a number of parking lots around. It would have minimized the risks of being caught out.

Found Eucalyputz's great case map from earlier https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1nIRq-XXrkEXpsON3jsK8fqod0u0

has more data points than Forager's https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=10h5GSiMVTLDNlOKN-8IJpJ59Ao0

I don't know why Roses, but where Brooks Station and Ball Hill intersect is the one places that I keep going back to thinking about Vanessa's brutal murder. Somebody visiting the graveyard on Sundays taking Brook Station to it maybe? What do you make of it looking around?
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.419...4!1sOkcU5pN0yF7oCUkkbtwv2Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

What the heck do they need a stop light there for? That struck me as odd.
The cemetery looks very old; old monuments. Looks to be at least 100 years old or more. I need to investigate
The little house across from the cemetery is odd. Maybe it's a caretaker shack?
It's an odd little intersection for sure.
Let me study and dwell.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Ok Find....goosebumps alert!
There is a cemetery on Connor Lane.....

 

[FindHG]

Ok Find....goosebumps alert!
There is a cemetery on Connor Lane.....

Yes there is.

What the heck do they need a stop light there for? That struck me as odd.
The cemetery looks very old; old monuments. Looks to be at least 100 years old or more. I need to investigate
The little house across from the cemetery is odd. Maybe it's a caretaker shack?
It's an odd little intersection for sure.
Let me study and dwell.

Thank you, Roses.

 

[rosesfromangels]

the fact there is a cemetery on Connor lane is significant. It's probably why he chose that road to be her "resting place".

 

[FindHG]

the fact there is a cemetery on Connor lane is significant. It's probably why he chose that road to be her "resting place".

A place of significance for the perp? The kind place sometimes perps like that are drawn to?

 

[Rocky1]

THanks everyone, I finally "walked" to Connor Lane. Google street view wouldn't let me walk down Connor Lane, but I could see down the road.
The area is really beautiful, and my theory of someone seeing her from their own house doesn't hold up; it's too woody and dense.
I can see why Vanessa enjoyed running down that road.

Based on what I'm looking at, the Perp would have had to drag her quite a ways from the main road to down Connor Lane. I'm having trouble imagining someone pulling that off, given that while this is secluded, it *is* a residential area. "Walking around" I can see this is upper scale, there are signs asking to watch for children, etc. And a Sunday afternoon....people are OUT and about! Walking, golfing, jogging, going to and fro church, etc. This was highly risky. Highly. But the only time he could "nab" her due to her jogging schedule.

I think he had his "gear" already stashed in this spot, and he lay in wait. I don't think he drove off, I think he had his gear in a backpack and took off on foot. Maybe his car was parked at the closest church, or he walked back home. I don't think his car was close by.

Good observations.
I am not sure about the cemetery on connors lane, however, the one on the corner of Ball Hill Rd is very small. You can see the entire cemetery from the rd. Not a place to hide in at all.
My thought was that he ambushed her from behind, and knocked her unconscious, then maybe dragged her into the woods just out of sight, did what he did, killed her and then dragged her back away from the road more so he could burn her. That could explain how he was able to get her so far back.
The temp was about 90 degrees that day if I remember right. More of a day to be inside in the a/c or hanging around the pool, than walking down Brook Station Rd, I would think.
I haven't measured, but I think the nearest parking lot is in the center of town so about a mile? I may be totally wrong, but hard to walk that far with fresh cuts and scratches on your face without being noticed by a passerby. I keep thinking of him thinking he'd want to avoid being seen walking on that road, but jmo.
I know I am repeating myself, but I say he lives close, so he saw her jogging, but not close enough where LE would have questioned him living in the boundries of the property, and I think he was on a bicycle, knew that cart road maybe because he rode down it in the past to relieve himself while on his bike ride, either hid waiting for her, or rode past her when she first left her moms house, pedaled ahead of her, carried the bike in the woods, leaving no tracks, came back out, waited for her, and ambushed her. Then he carried the bike back out pedaled away wearing a helmet and sunglasses, head down hiding any scratches for the most part. Just my wild guess and nothing more.

 

[Rocky1]

What the heck do they need a stop light there for? That struck me as odd.
The cemetery looks very old; old monuments. Looks to be at least 100 years old or more. I need to investigate
The little house across from the cemetery is odd. Maybe it's a caretaker shack?
It's an odd little intersection for sure.
Let me study and dwell.

The stop light is a single blinking light, red facing Ball Hill Rd, and yellow facing Brook Station Rd. There are also stop signs on Ball Hill Rd. I think they put the light there to slow traffic driving down Brook Station Rd, because there is a blind spot if you drive down Ball Hill Rd from Rt 31. It is not an X shaped intersection, and Ball Hill Rd comes in at an angle. There must have been a few accidents there in the past.

 

[FindHG]

Good observations.
I am not sure about the cemetery on connors lane, however, the one on the corner of Ball Hill Rd is very small. You can see the entire cemetery from the rd. Not a place to hide in at all.
My thought was that he ambushed her from behind, and knocked her unconscious, then maybe dragged her into the woods just out of sight, did what he did, killed her and then dragged her back away from the road more so he could burn her. That could explain how he was able to get her so far back.
The temp was about 90 degrees that day if I remember right. More of a day to be inside in the a/c or hanging around the pool, than walking down Brook Station Rd, I would think.
I haven't measured, but I think the nearest parking lot is in the center of town so about a mile? I may be totally wrong, but hard to walk that far with fresh cuts and scratches on your face without being noticed by a passerby. I keep thinking of him thinking he'd want to avoid being seen walking on that road, but jmo.
I know I am repeating myself, but I say he lives close, so he saw her jogging, but not close enough where LE would have questioned him living in the boundries of the property, and I think he was on a bicycle, knew that cart road maybe because he rode down it in the past to relieve himself while on his bike ride, either hid waiting for her, or rode past her when she first left her moms house, pedaled ahead of her, carried the bike in the woods, leaving no tracks, came back out, waited for her, and ambushed her. Then he carried the bike back out pedaled away wearing a helmet and sunglasses, head down hiding any scratches for the most part. Just my wild guess and nothing more.

Good wild guesses, Rocky1, as you reason really well, and this scenario still makes great sense to me. How far would you wild guess a Sunday rider would venture? Do you think it's somebody who timed it? That's the one thing beside the location that seems very precise to me.

 

[FindHG]

The stop light is a single blinking light, red facing Ball Hill Rd, and yellow facing Brook Station Rd. There are also stop signs on Ball Hill Rd. I think they put the light there to slow traffic driving down Brook Station Rd, because there is a blind spot if you drive down Ball Hill Rd from Rt 31. It is not an X shaped intersection, and Ball Hill Rd comes in at an angle. There must have been a few accidents there in the past.

Where could somebody lurk there, see traffic from the various directions you describe?

 

[ThinkHard]

For no other reason than trying to keep the facts as straight as possible.... Brook Station Rd. in Princeton turns into Wachusett Rd. if you drive south. It dead ends in Rutland on Glenwood Rd. It is not Rt 31. Rt. 31 runs parallel, (same as brook station rd) Not a big issue at all but if someone is trying to track by map, they may be confused, so I thought it is worth mentioning.

I hadn't realized there was ALSO a Wachusett St in Rutland until just now when I looked at the map, so thanks for pointing that out.

However the information I stated is still true as a long section of rt 31 in Holden and parts of Princeton is also called Wachusett St.

If you follow rt 31 from the center of Holden to the center of Princeton it actually changed names 3 times. At the center of Holden it Highland Street, then a bit before Quinapoxet it changes to Wachusett street when it intersects with it, then just before Ball Hill Rd it changes to Worcester Rd.

 

[ThinkHard]

THanks everyone, I finally "walked" to Connor Lane. Google street view wouldn't let me walk down Connor Lane, but I could see down the road.
The area is really beautiful, and my theory of someone seeing her from their own house doesn't hold up; it's too woody and dense.
I can see why Vanessa enjoyed running down that road.

Based on what I'm looking at, the Perp would have had to drag her quite a ways from the main road to down Connor Lane. I'm having trouble imagining someone pulling that off, given that while this is secluded, it *is* a residential area. "Walking around" I can see this is upper scale, there are signs asking to watch for children, etc. And a Sunday afternoon....people are OUT and about! Walking, golfing, jogging, going to and fro church, etc. This was highly risky. Highly. But the only time he could "nab" her due to her jogging schedule.

I think he had his "gear" already stashed in this spot, and he lay in wait. I don't think he drove off, I think he had his gear in a backpack and took off on foot. Maybe his car was parked at the closest church, or he walked back home. I don't think his car was close by.

A couple things. I agree with a lot of what you bring up and your observations of the area. It would have been hard to watch her as a neighbor and if someone nabbed her, they would have to know her running schedule.

It feels very very very unlikely to me that someone was just driving through Princeton and saw her and decided to act on spur of the moment. As you said it's just too risky.

And like you I have trouble wrapping my head around taking the risk to drag her ( while she was likely screaming and fighting him) far enough into that path to not be seen. Princeton is so quiet, eerily so. All you hear is the wind in the trees, it's hard for me to believe that if she had screamed no one would have heard it, or for that matter that someone would grab her there at the risk that someone could even possibly hear her. It just seems like a big gamble on the perps part and I don't know if I believe that's the way it went down.

I don't think he initially attacked her at all. I get the feeling she got down that path a different way. Now it could either be someone who she was familiar with asked for help with something and she trusted him. Or someone she knew could have driven by and picked her up, and later deposited her down that path.

From the beginning there have been inconsistencies in this case for me, some things needed to be so planned out to pull off, other aspects seemingly amature or sloppy.....I have said it before but I still feel like the crime scene could have been staged in an effort to deflect and make it look like something other then what it was.

 

[ThinkHard]

I agree Roses, there a number of parking lots around. It would have minimized the risks of being caught out.

Found Eucalyputz's great case map from earlier https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1nIRq-XXrkEXpsON3jsK8fqod0u0

has more data points than Forager's https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=10h5GSiMVTLDNlOKN-8IJpJ59Ao0

I don't know why Roses, but where Brooks Station and Ball Hill intersect is the one places that I keep going back to thinking about Vanessa's brutal murder. Somebody visiting the graveyard on Sundays taking Brooks Station to it maybe? What do you make of it looking around?
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.419...4!1sOkcU5pN0yF7oCUkkbtwv2Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That's a really really old graveyard, as in no one in it has had anyone in their lives alive for probably at least 100 years. So I doubt someone was visiting someone's grave, but you never know.

Also I'm curious why you think south of her mothers house would someone be related to this when her body was found north of her mothers house....

 

[Mainely16]

Like many, I'm just plain out baffled. I joined WS in April, back when Missy Bevers was murdered in a church by a person wearing a LE/SWAT uniform. After a few weeks of thinking, equivocating, and researching (and marvelling over the oft meticulous work WS members put forth) the murder, I felt pretty resolute (as much as possible) in a theory. Here...not so much. I've mentioned before that I grew up in the locality (Sterling and W. Bolyston, with a lot of schoolmates who live in Holden) and I suppose that takes my attachment here up a scooch. As a child and teen, I walked and biked alone and with friends on peaceful, green-canopied roads just like the one VM was enjoying that day. When you're alone with not much else but wind whispers and bird songs, it's easy to fall into a meditative state. The combination of years of familiarity, feelings of safety and nature's trance is a thing of beauty I suppose I took for granted. Not only was this taken for eternity from VM and likely her family, but the sanctity of such needed beauty stolen from many of us. I live in a small town in Maine, and do not indulge in the same feelings of absolute safety as my neighbors. I have pangs of fear when my 11 year old niece bikes to her friend's a few streets away. My sister says I'm paranoid; I say informed, but perhaps my fear is augmented by following cases like this. I'm not sure who had this convo here the other day, but many of us have expressed a wish to bear witness and not forget, if nothing else. Names like VM and so many others at some point slip away...and that feels so wrong I have a hard time plunging my befuddled head into the sand in an attempt to forget.
...just like many of you. IMO, we all
appear to get frustrated with lack of movement around this time in a case, and that is when the squabbling begins. We all care so much, and are cyberpacing in the same confined, untouchable space.

I didn't begin this post to talk about any of that. I don't have anyone in my circle interested when a life is taken unless it's a personal relation or on Criminal Minds, so while I post infrequently I value the thoughts of those here that do.
ThinkHard, I think you had just mused that the crime scene may have been staged. I have read others suggesting that before. Could you offer why that would have been advantageous for the murderer? Also, aren't we dealing with a pretty slim window of time here...and would the perp want to have taken time to stick around for anything past the murderous act? I'm lost re: that scenario.

Also, and this is not to anyone in partic, why has the theory re: being struck on the head and rendered unconscious in order to drag to where she was found been negated many times? IMO, that leaves a weapon being pulled/threat, or a friendly meeting, planned, that went ugly. IMO, she wouldn't have set up a private meeting with someone given she had to get back, assemble things, say goodbye and make the bus. One more thing, had she been taken somewhere else and brought back, I'm sure they would have fibers from the truck, different grass, something. That is a whole lot of risk for the perp to take, especially in a short period of time. As far as he knew, she was going to meet up with a childhood friend on her walk, or her mom was coming to pick her up somewhere to get her home in time, etc.

It's almost as if it's too messy to be considered crafty, or it's too crafty to be considered messy.

All IMO. Sorry for the book...

 

[1306kayaker]

All of these theories are great but I'm also wondering what you all think about LE's persistent requests for information about vehicles spotted in the area. I called in a tip on the Monday after Vanessa was found and was drilled by LE about any vehicles I may have spotted and I have heard from a friend in LE that they believe a vehicle was involved. Also, there was that report (I think the link no longer works but it's in a previous thread) about the guy that saw a woman walking down Brooks Station on Sunday afternoon, saw a car drive-by and do a U-turn and then, when he turned around, the woman was gone (for those of you who read this story, did I remember it correctly?).

I guess my working theory is that someone familiar with VM's routine waited for her and/or drove by, maybe bumped her with his car, grabbed her, took her somewhere nearby (cleared lot next door? Light Dept lot?) and then returned her to the Connor Rd location. Perhaps her cell phone fell out in his vehicle and when her family started looking for her he realized he had it and disposed of it somewhere near the Mt. Barn. Lots of holes in this theory and I'm still working on it.

 

[Inthedetails]

All of these theories are great but I'm also wondering what you all think about LE's persistent requests for information about vehicles spotted in the area. I called in a tip on the Monday after Vanessa was found and was drilled by LE about any vehicles I may have spotted and I have heard from a friend in LE that they believe a vehicle was involved. Also, there was that report (I think the link no longer works but it's in a previous thread) about the guy that saw a woman walking down Brooks Station on Sunday afternoon, saw a car drive-by and do a U-turn and then, when he turned around, the woman was gone (for those of you who read this story, did I remember it correctly?).

I guess my working theory is that someone familiar with VM's routine waited for her and/or drove by, maybe bumped her with his car, grabbed her, took her somewhere nearby (cleared lot next door? Light Dept lot?) and then returned her to the Connor Rd location. Perhaps her cell phone fell out in his vehicle and when her family started looking for her he realized he had it and disposed of it somewhere near the Mt. Barn. Lots of holes in this theory and I'm still working on it.

I think your theory has merit.

Trying to figure out how she got down that cart path is so perplexing.

Hoping for some news soon.

 

[OldSteve]

All of these theories are great but I'm also wondering what you all think about LE's persistent requests for information about vehicles spotted in the area. I called in a tip on the Monday after Vanessa was found and was drilled by LE about any vehicles I may have spotted and I have heard from a friend in LE that they believe a vehicle was involved. Also, there was that report (I think the link no longer works but it's in a previous thread) about the guy that saw a woman walking down Brooks Station on Sunday afternoon, saw a car drive-by and do a U-turn and then, when he turned around, the woman was gone (for those of you who read this story, did I remember it correctly?).

I guess my working theory is that someone familiar with VM's routine waited for her and/or drove by, maybe bumped her with his car, grabbed her, took her somewhere nearby (cleared lot next door? Light Dept lot?) and then returned her to the Connor Rd location. Perhaps her cell phone fell out in his vehicle and when her family started looking for her he realized he had it and disposed of it somewhere near the Mt. Barn. Lots of holes in this theory and I'm still working on it.

Striking a jogger or bicyclist with a vehicle or motorbike is the most common way I've seen perp subdue victim - often there are signs that this was done - but we haven't been told this in this case; well, indirectly perhaps we have by what you mentioned...

 

[1306kayaker]

I think your theory has merit.

Trying to figure out how she got down that cart path is so perplexing.

Hoping for some news soon.

The cart path piece is so perplexing! Just wondering - are we clear on if she was actually found on the cart path? It runs fairly parallel with the road so 100 yards directly down the cart path vs 100 yards straight into the woods starting from the cart path would mean a difference of about 100 feet further into the woods. Not sure that it matters either way......