MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #4

[ThinkHard]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. This forum is great to help think things through. I believe law enforcement is on this and are working hard but I also think they might have a tough time solving this for several reasons. I hope I'm wrong.

If it were someone local with a connection to Vanessa, they would have checked that person out a while back. And like most of us, I do not see someone from NYC committing the crime. Her ties to men in the area were minimal. She'd been to college in Boston, grew up in Leominster, attended private schools, and worked in NYC for a couple of years. Who from town is going to hate her enough to plan to tie her naked to a tree and burn her (I know this is not established, but that's my gut feeling after seeing those pics)? To me, that's not remorse, at least not primarily. That's about rage and it's about power, arguably even a ritualized, religious type of power, perhaps by someone who feels disempowered and rejected. Someone who thinks of himself as a failure and resented her education and success. Maybe she's a type or a substitute for someone who rejected him in the past. The manner of death is painful, vicious and humiliating - it changes that perceived power balance. The same is true of Vetrano too.

There are disorganized elements to the crime for sure. But is some of that due to the time constraint or because it's staged? Maybe it's a devolution, like what happened with Bundy in Florida (not saying he's a serial killer, just thinking aloud). My gut feeling again is that whoever it is wanted her body found quickly; maybe because of remorse or maybe because he would have known it would get national attention because of the KV case. Because the Vatrino case has to play into this in some important way.

I don't think he was overly concerned about DNA because he's not from town, doesn't have close ties to her and has never been caught. Maybe he lived/worked some type of menial job in a town within driving distance and had been in the general region for his whole life. Maybe he knew people in town or in adjoining towns at some point. Either way, he'd been on the path and on the road before, probably several times. He'd probably watched her run before, more than once.

All guesswork. Sorry this is so long!

Couple things just for clarity. Hopefully it's helpful....

VM as far as we know grew up in Leominster. However she attended Bancroft, which is a very very good private nondenominational k-12 private school in Worcester. So she would have known a lot of people in the neighboring communities and my guess is most certainly known people from the wachusett school district which Princeton is a part of. It's a small world. I went to Wachusett but knew many of my peers at the surrounding public and private schools just from shared activities or mutual friends. So my guess, and of course it's just a guess....is that her local network could be wide.

Additionally we know her parents are divorced and her dad bought a new house in Leominster around 2005. So one could reason that perhaps she had actually spent her last year of high school or so living in Princeton, if that is in fact when her mother moved there.

Boston is close to Princeton in the sense driving an hour to get somewhere is no big deal. We are use to driving into Boston for Red Sox games, or plays, or just because, so in guessing if she came home every 2 weeks from NYC, it's likley she came home with similar if not greater frequency when she was living closer. Which would give me reason to believe she still had many contacts locally.

Furthger I believe she had only been living in NYC for a year, perhaps a year and a half, so it had been a relatively short time period that she'd been there, and as mentioned she had a routine of visiting MA with regularity.

Again this all makes me believe the net of locals she could have known and been in contact in, within various settings, and friends of friends is wide.

Last thing, it's possible that even if the have a DNA match, they still don't have enough to press charges. If the can match him to her, but not him to the crime scene, all they can prove is contact, not murder. They would need more then that for an arrest. So perhaps that could explain the silence and delays.

 

[Kickoff61]

Someone put in her running loop routes. How many houses are along the route?

 

[Camerabug]

My apologies if this has already been discussed...but there are similarities

http://www.fox25boston.com/news/fam...oncerned-about-parallel-to-new-case/438054706

 

[Camerabug]

Another link for those new to this forum and who are researching this case is the FB page of News Journalist from Fox25 BobWard. He is an investigative journalist and his FB page is loaded with good research reporting on VB.

*Note: scroll down to August and September to see his reporting on Vanessa...

https://m.facebook.com/bward3/

 

[Steleheart]

I also recall the nature of the DNA being unknown to us... Wether it was skin under fingernails, hair, fluid... Unknown.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For me, it's safe to assume fingernail DNA. They were able to say male right away and that he would have cuts, scratches and bruises. We don't know COD/ MOD but my guess is that she had defensive wounds as well. Thus the notation that he would have cuts. Cuts are different than scratches and denote a sharp implement. Likely he cut himself so some DNA could be from his blood.
http://www.masslive.com/news/worces...te_homicide_investigation_video_evidence.html

"5 Investigates learned that Marcotte may have been strangled, but her official cause and manner of death have not yet been officially released."
http://www.wcvb.com/news/hundreds-o...tion-into-murder-of-vanessa-marcotte/41122922


MOO

 

[The Farm]

No but they had asked people to look out for a scratched man. So one can guess they know he's scratched from what they found under her fingernsils, i.e. Skin cells...its likely they tested this evidence this being the reason they know it's male...and thus within fairly good reason we can conclude that in all likelihood they do in fact have his DNA.

This scratched man went into hiding and as i stated earlier was able to hide out where he was or left the area completely until he healed up. If in fact they do have his DNA he obviously is not in the system.

 

[ThinkHard]

This scratched man went into hiding and as i stated earlier was able to hide out where he was or left the area completely until he healed up. If in fact they do have his DNA he obviously is not in the system.

Yes, I'm not sure I understand your point though. I only mentioned that to point out that in all likelihood they did in fact collect DNA.

 

[Camerabug]

August 25th post from Bob Ward's FB page: [BBM]

Quoting:

<snip>

This afternoon, I spoke with famed Northeastern University Criminologist Jack Levin for some insight.

He tells me, based on his decades of research into similar cases, it is very likely Vanessa's killer is someone one very familiar with the Princeton area.

Levin also tells me, it is his opinion that the man who attacked Vanessa is not a prolific serial killer; he has already made too many mistakes.

I have a live report coming up on FOX25 News at 6pm

end Quote

 

[rosesfromangels]

I agree that he is not a serial killer. However, I do think we will find he has a history of fire setting, and probably animal abuse.
At least this is what my amateur profile suggests. I also think LE knows who the Perp is, and is busy in the lab preparing studies to support this. We shall see if I'm right. Time will tell.

 

[The Farm]

Yes, I'm not sure I understand your point though. I only mentioned that to point out that in all likelihood they did in fact collect DNA.

Morning ThinkHard,
What I meant is when they put his DNA into the database there were no matches.

 

[JEF]

If whoever did this is not from town and If he planned the murder in advance, he would have visited in a car to stake out the area and choose that site, most likely on a weekend and during times when VM was in town. To me the place in the woods may have been preselected, not just the path but the site with the trees itself. If so, the obvious place to park when staking out the location is the cemetery - whether or not he parked there on the day of the murder. There is no place else a car wouldn't stand out for any length of time. If he parks at the cemetery he can cut through the woods or take that old trail to the cart path; he can time how long it takes him to make the trip to the cart path and back. He can pick the spot and even do a few test burns on other days to check out the smoke factor. There could even be trees burnt further back in the woods, possibly. And maybe somebody noticed a man at the cemetery on multiple occasions at some point...

Camerabug and others, what do you see as the mistakes besides the DNA/scratches due to the fight? Also, to argue the other side, we don't know where those wounds are or how significant they are. Could be someplace on his body that is easily concealed and/or explained away due to the nature of his work. If he lives alone and the wounds are not on someplace obvious, no one but him might have noticed them.

 

[JEF]

One last question - if we wildly speculate about the ritualistic/religious aspects of this crime (and that's what it is), what religions/cultures use fire to make sacrifices?

 

[Kickoff61]

There seems to be many possibilities with this. The killer could be nearby in town, very familiar with area or someone who frequently visits friend or relative there. JEF has some good points about an outsider too and location of cemetery. It seems probable if they have his DNA, he is not in the system , hasn't been caught before. But, this does seem like an escalated crime by someone with criminal history. Could be or not be serial killer. Many serial killers are not caught for years but eventually make mistakes, things go wrong and they are caught.

 

[Kickoff61]

If whoever did this is not from town and If he planned the murder in advance, he would have visited in a car to stake out the area and choose that site, most likely on a weekend and during times when VM was in town. To me the place in the woods may have been preselected, not just the path but the site with the trees itself. If so, the obvious place to park when staking out the location is the cemetery - whether or not he parked there on the day of the murder. There is no place else a car wouldn't stand out for any length of time. If he parks at the cemetery he can cut through the woods or take that old trail to the cart path; he can time how long it takes him to make the trip to the cart path and back. He can pick the spot and even do a few test burns on other days to check out the smoke factor. There could even be trees burnt further back in the woods, possibly. And maybe somebody noticed a man at the cemetery on multiple occasions at some point...

Camerabug and others, what do you see as the mistakes besides the DNA/scratches due to the fight? Also, to argue the other side, we don't know where those wounds are or how significant they are. Could be someplace on his body that is easily concealed and/or explained away due to the nature of his work. If he lives alone and the wounds are not on someplace obvious, no one but him might have noticed them.

Right. We don't know where the wounds may be. Could be concealed.

 

[The Farm]

My personal opinion is that the burning is not definately a ritualistic scenario. It could have been his fastest way to get rid of evidence. Fire to erase.
Also I believe most victims will go for their perpitraitors face, unless they are restrained. If in fact he did tie her to the tree she obviously fought him before that happened. So if he had her on the ground on her back his face was close. Also there might not have even been a car, he could have been hiding in wait with a car parked no where near the scene. Running through the woods is easy and you are under cover.

 

[Kickoff61]

My personal opinion is that the burning is not definately a ritualistic scenario. It could have been his fastest way to get rid of evidence. Fire to erase.
Also I believe most victims will go for their perpitraitors face, unless they are restrained. If in fact he did tie her to the tree she obviously fought him before that happened. So if he had her on the ground on her back his face was close. Also there might not have even been a car, he could have been hiding in wait with a car parked no where near the scene. Running through the woods is easy and you are under cover.

Very good points too - Farm

 

[rosesfromangels]

One last question - if we wildly speculate about the ritualistic/religious aspects of this crime (and that's what it is), what religions/cultures use fire to make sacrifices?

My first thought was that it was a demented recreation of Christ's wounds on the cross; crown of thorns, nails through feet and hands. (Fire in same body locations). The holy trinity; Father,Son, Holy Ghost. Maybe his way of "cleansing" her in preparation for her ascension to Heaven.

Sounds nuts enough to maybe be right

 

[Kickoff61]

I can see why he wouldn't be seen with those woods shown in the area to run through.

 

[Kickoff61]

Does anyone know where the info. is about a shoe found? or 'where' it was found?

 

[rosesfromangels]

My personal opinion is that the burning is not definately a ritualistic scenario. It could have been his fastest way to get rid of evidence. Fire to erase.
Also I believe most victims will go for their perpitraitors face, unless they are restrained. If in fact he did tie her to the tree she obviously fought him before that happened. So if he had her on the ground on her back his face was close. Also there might not have even been a car, he could have been hiding in wait with a car parked no where near the scene. Running through the woods is easy and you are under cover.

Yes, based on the few expert studies I read, concealing DNA (or attempting to), would be a strong motivator for many of the Perps who offend with this particular signature