MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #4

[JEF]

My take - I think it would have been easy. There is only one house on Connor near the cemetery. There's another house out of sight - that's it. The cemetery is down a very short "road" so no one can see who's there. Granted, it's possible on a Sunday someone would have gone to visit the cemetery.....either way, if the crime was planned the killer could have visited that cemetery and cut through those woods to the path/site at an earlier time.

I've looked at those crime scene photos many times and those two trees look pre-arranged, as if they were ready and she were bound to them. If everything happened so quickly would there have been time to set up those trees like that? What if the killer set that up beforehand to save time? Or at least preselected that area with the two trees/stones? If the perp isn't someone on the street (which I absolutely doubt at this point), then the place to park out of sight is that cemetery. I've been there as well and have yet to see anyone.

 

[Rocky1]

Just remember crime of opportunity is real http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/19990723/News/307239999. More similar to this case http://www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2014/12/peggy_sue_calvillos_murderer_c.html

I've felt threatened many times, but as I've been told "there is very rarely a random killer". Why can this not be a rare situation? I think it is. It really seems like it.

It could very well be a rare situation. Although not by name,I mentioned The Peggy Sue Calvillo murder way back in this thread when someone mentioned that VM may have been struck by a car to incapacitate her.

 

[Rocky1]

My take - I think it would have been easy. There is only one house on Connor near the cemetery. There's another house out of sight - that's it. The cemetery is down a very short "road" so no one can see who's there. Granted, it's possible on a Sunday someone would have gone to visit the cemetery.....either way, if the crime was planned the killer could have visited that cemetery and cut through those woods to the path/site at an earlier time.

I've looked at those crime scene photos many times and those two trees look pre-arranged, as if they were ready and she were bound to them. If everything happened so quickly would there have been time to set up those trees like that? What if the killer set that up beforehand to save time? Or at least preselected that area with the two trees/stones? If the perp isn't someone on the street (which I absolutely doubt at this point), then the place to park out of sight is that cemetery. I've been there as well and have yet to see anyone.

I guess this scenario tosses the SUV being seen parked along BSR theory out.

 

[donttt]

It could very well be a rare situation. Although not by name,I mentioned The Peggy Sue Calvillo murder way back in this thread when someone mentioned that VM may have been struck by a car to incapacitate her.

I know, I have been thinking of that murder since the first time I heard of what happened to Vanessa. I'm sorry I didn't respond when you brought it up (though I was glad you did), or quote your mention (I don't know how to do that).

 

[Rocky1]

I know, I have been thinking of that murder since the first time I heard of what happened to Vanessa. I'm sorry I didn't respond when you brought it up (though I was glad you did), or quote your mention (I don't know how to do that).

That's ok. That was a while ago, and it would take a long time to dig through the posts to find it to quote.

 

[JEF]

I still think there could have been a vehicle parked on BSR - it can't be discounted, anyway, especially if there are multiple witnesses. But I do think it very, very unlikely that it was a random killing in the sense of someone cruising around and seeing her.

 

[Rocky1]

Any information that LE brings to the public, no matter how small, keeps this from becoming a cold case, which is a good thing.

 

[DeDee]

That is why the car on BSR has always troubled me. I still think he cut through the woods and Rocky may be right about the vehicle. I think something else is going on there.

Rocky, you're also spot on about the road. I was there the other day at the site and at least four? or more cars drove by. Really, really risky. Granted, he could have pulled his vehicle onto the path but not far because it's very uneven and there's a log across the path at around 30 yds. Also, if anybody saw that they might have reported it because it's private property.

Either way, I now believe it happened very quickly. Even with the foliage being as thick as it was (another thing I believe that was taken into account when planning the crime - all speaks of premeditation), a biker or runner passing by might would have been a possibility. I still go for a surprise attack, possibly w/ stun gun or taser, quick end, flare gun to get rid of DNA and then a quick cut through wood to the cemetery, where he jumps into his car and heads out of town.

I don't believe whoever it was lived in town. They've combed that town, I'm guessing.

Either way, I now believe it happened very quickly. Even with the foliage being as thick as it was (another thing I believe that was taken into account when planning the crime - all speaks of premeditation), a biker or runner passing by might would have been a possibility. I still go for a surprise attack, possibly w/ stun gun or taser, quick end, flare gun to get rid of DNA and then a quick cut through wood to the cemetery, where he jumps into his car and heads out of town.

Sounds plausible to me. You say stun gun and I say a medium sized rock from behind; yet both are possible. Until we learn more about her injuries, I go with it being a quick crime, too. Definitely a surprise attack. Flare gun? I'll need to research that weapon's potential.

LEO, and, no, they are not being misleading, states a dark SUV as being seen by witnesses near the area where VMs body was found yet the cemetery does offer an additional entry/exit point only if the SUV is not parked near the railing b/c there is no way from the CS to a short cut for a SUV to the cemetery, is there?.

This crime against VM was premeditated with precision. The victim could have been anyone. Wrong place at the wrong time. VM was a creature of habit as far as her walking/jogging routine every other Sunday in Pr so likely did friends and coworkers in NYC, and any other possible friends or enemies, knew she had this particular routine before returning to NYC by bus. VMs murder may not have been happenstance. Was VM targeted as a Crime of Passion?

Can her ph records be subpoenaed without having possession of her phone?

 

[JEF]

Could definitely have been a rock. As for the flare gun, I meant something with a directed flame to burn head, feet, hands. Not exactly sure what it would be; someone posted something about that earlier on this thread. An accelerant may have been used too. I still believe fire was a signature, as well as a tool for destroying evidence.

I doubt it was a crime of passion directed at Vanessa but I don't feel it was an unplanned, random act either. I think she was targeted by the killer because she fit a general profile of someone or was a substitute for someone a) the killer wanted but could not have or 2) someone the killer was angry at or 3) both. By now, they've already gone through everyone close to her, looked at phone records, social media, etc. They've been through the people in town too, most likely. So we're possibly looking at someone familiar with the area who would not raise suspicion being in town on multiple occasions. Someone who could have gone online to figure out her routine re running on Sundays. Probably not someone from NY but the general area, as police have said.

As for the cemetery, the perp may not have gone there at all that day. But if it was someone from beyond town borders, he could have spent time there beforehand to assess the possibility of committing the crime on BSR without having to park the car on that road, which as Rocky pointed out, is not that quiet.

Sounds plausible to me. You say stun gun and I say a medium sized rock from behind; yet both are possible. Until we learn more about her injuries, I go with it being a quick crime, too. Definitely a surprise attack. Flare gun? I'll need to research that weapon's potential.

LEO, and, no, they are not being misleading, states a dark SUV as being seen by witnesses near the area where VMs body was found yet the cemetery does offer an additional entry/exit point only if the SUV is not parked near the railing b/c there is no way from the CS to a short cut for a SUV to the cemetery, is there?.

This crime against VM was premeditated with precision. The victim could have been anyone. Wrong place at the wrong time. VM was a creature of habit as far as her walking/jogging routine every other Sunday in Pr so likely did friends and coworkers in NYC, and any other possible friends or enemies, knew she had this particular routine before returning to NYC by bus. VMs murder may not have been happenstance. Was VM targeted as a Crime of Passion?

Can her ph records be subpoenaed without having possession of her phone?

 

[monkeypants]

I have always thought that because she didn't live at moms that this was someone VM knew from long ago...someone who never left the area. Perhaps someone who wasn't "in her league" and had a chip on the shoulder stemming back thru childhood

 

[Razz]

If LE is playing that game, it is a dangerous game to play. It could entice him to act again, if he feels like he got away with it.

Well, not if they know who the prep is. It may be a red herring. I just feel that revealing this info at this time is very odd.

Sorry to reference this (as this case has blown the lid off normal LE and SA (state attorney) procedure but it is similar to what Tallahassee Police did in the Dan Markel case. A year after the murder of DM, they put out an informational video re the suspect car. Of course, people such as myself thought the TPD was crazy for finally putting this info out so late. Come to find out, it was a ruse (beautifully played) to make the killers, masterminds and the general public feel that the car had not been identified when in actuality the police knew soon after the murder where the car was and who had rented it.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

 

[Kickoff61]

There was only a 2 hour window.
If he lived that close, why not walk back to the woods, rather than take the chance that someone would remember the SUV being parked on BSR?

The main reason or only reason would be that he needed supplies from home to bring back to do the fire and the vehicle was the quickest way to transport something and do the cover up. IF he lived very close by, it may not have seemed that risky to drive back quickly.

I think one thing being overlooked here, is the level of her fighting . It could have changed this entire plan for him and left him scrambling to get rid of DNA left behind. A DNA link is a DNA link, regardless of being in a data base or not. I do not believe he expected that level of a fight and this could possibly be when his plans changed, including a 'rush' because of not expecting to take so much time.

I do agree with others, there are many possibilities.

 

[ThinkHard]

Hi all....My issue with the "LE knows the perp and have decided he is no longer a threat" is how and why would LE put themselves in a place to predict what a "murderous maniac" might do?

Anyone who is able to grab a woman, rape her, set her on fire and discard her body so boldly -- in a small town on a Sunday afternoon -- is not someone I would stamp my name on as a safe bet. Why would anyone think a man like this is "no longer a threat"?

Can you imagine if LE knows who it is and rests on their laurels and the killer picks another? IMO, not only would they feel beyond responsible, they'd be strung up by their fingernails. I know it's tempting to connect this person directly to Vanessa as a romantic reject, and it may indeed be the case, but the ability to do this to Vanessa suggests a misogynistic, high-risk person without empathy. Sounds like some kind of ----path to me. (I don't want to get into socio vs psycho right now -- it is 4AM where I am

IMO, just because Vanessa is gone doesn't mean that his mindset about women has changed. If he falls for another woman next week who isn't interested, or interprets a passer-bys lack of a smile as rejection, who is to say he won't do it again?

Why wouldn't they think he is just getting started?

All IMO, of course. I so need to get off WS and go to bed!fftobed:

if the person they thought did it where believed to be deceased then it would pretty simply explain why they could no longer think of him as a threat,

 

[ThinkHard]

I am not trying to be difficult, Thinkhard. But I too am local, though I do not live in town, and that is not what I have heard.

Based on information and instinct I believe this person knew VM, and that it was not random.

Rumor around town and within some LE only gives me reason to think perhaps there is a reason we haven't heard anything much.

...until the most recent dark SUV report.

I do, and have wondered if perhaps two people where involved. Maybe not both with the murder but perhaps a second person helped with the cover up....as in if it was someone on the younger side, could they have called someone very close to them? Perhaps they brought them supplies?

 

[ThinkHard]

Glad you popped back in, TH. Going with that theory... agree it would be complicating the case. But I think it would be throwing a complete wrench in it. I'm almost certain LE would not be able to bring charges, as legally accused have a right to face their accusers (victims and/or the prosecutors).

Again, speculating in general...

Please be careful in wording your posts, as you did with one.

Can you report on the general mood in the area? I'd guess there is still a lingering unease. Thanks.

It could change with this knew info, but people have been fairly mum about the case in recent months. It will occasionally come up to see if anyone has heard more but mostly people just shake their heads and say they haven't heard anything.

This is just my interpretation, and perhaps I am wrong, but I can't help but think there is a sense, we all know it is a local, and because of this we know finding out who did it, could be just as destabilizing to the community as the original crime was, and in some weird way it feels like people are trying to forget. just my impression of course.

 

[ThinkHard]

Respectfully, snipped.

I'll second that. Finally something.

Thanks to those who posted links and the update!

As I just said in my recent post, LE seemed to think early on there was a car involved or on the scene at the time in question. If a man in car was involved, this points to a cocky, impulsive, or not that intelligent person. It would very very risky to have a car on scene, given that someone could notice it. (Which might be the case here.)

I wonder if the description of the car is something that they just found out, which wouldn't seem likely? Perhaps, for whatever reason, they suspected early on such a car might be involved and they were fishing for corroboration? Any thoughts?

Let's hope this goes somewhere! At the very least we know they have some info. I continue to believe they have more than they are releasing, but this could just be wishful thinking.

I can't help but wonder if they have a narrowed down suspect or even an accomplice, and the "dark colored suv" is a hint more to people who they know might suspect someone to finally turn them in.

 

[ThinkHard]

It's great to have some feedback on the traffic on that road. The general impression I have derived from this thread is that it's relatively deserted or at least isolated - and the Google Maps link certainly supports that impression. If however it does get regular traffic, then it would be extremely high risk to park your car there unobstructed for 20 minutes or so (absolute bare minimum) while carrying out the crime. That would result in a number of positive sightings.

It is not uncommon to see cars pulled off to the side of roads like that around here. Especially where there is a path or pond nearby. I see them all the time and never think twice about it. Some people call in sightings like this hence our ridiculous police log, but most won't and will just drive past it without a second thought. Just suggesting that perhaps the perp relied on this general attitude here.

 

[ThinkHard]

Sounds plausible to me. You say stun gun and I say a medium sized rock from behind; yet both are possible. Until we learn more about her injuries, I go with it being a quick crime, too. Definitely a surprise attack. Flare gun? I'll need to research that weapon's potential.

LEO, and, no, they are not being misleading, states a dark SUV as being seen by witnesses near the area where VMs body was found yet the cemetery does offer an additional entry/exit point only if the SUV is not parked near the railing b/c there is no way from the CS to a short cut for a SUV to the cemetery, is there?.

This crime against VM was premeditated with precision. The victim could have been anyone. Wrong place at the wrong time. VM was a creature of habit as far as her walking/jogging routine every other Sunday in Pr so likely did friends and coworkers in NYC, and any other possible friends or enemies, knew she had this particular routine before returning to NYC by bus. VMs murder may not have been happenstance. Was VM targeted as a Crime of Passion?

Can her ph records be subpoenaed without having possession of her phone?

In my opinion I don't think the cemetery is at all a possibility. To get to the path from there is actually quite a distance to walk on foot with supplies or injuries, especially since to get to the path you have to park on private property, walk past houses on a private dead end road, walk down someones private driveway or cut through their woods.....unless of course you had knowledge the people who live on that private road are away it seems very unlikely.

It also seems unlikely since police are asking for people who saw a dark suv on BSR during the time of the crime to come forward.

 

[ThinkHard]

Given the new information, a possible scenario occurred to me; I know the idea that she knew her killer is unpopular with many of you on here, and you are fully entitled to your opinion. However my gut instinct still leads me to believe this person was a peer to her. And perhaps under some circumstances knew she was meeting up with him that day. Perhaps he was a fellow runner too, perhaps he wanted to talk to her and surprised her....I am not committed to a specific context of their relationship or meeting that day as their could be varied possibilities.

However suppose she ends up somehow in the company of this peer on her run that day. Perhaps he biked or ran to meet her himself....my belief is that I think its possible that this wasn't a planned crime but the result of someone snapping. So someone he snaps, and her body ends up at its location in the woods. But there he is bloody, and sweaty, and looking at a dead body. So he panics. He calls someone....a friend, a brother, a father....a role model....and they hear the panic in his voice, and they end up helping him "clean up" and get out of the crime scene.....by bringing him supplies and picking him up in their dark colored SUV....Just a theory of course.

For what its worth, I would just like to add, that there was a case I followed on here about a NYC women who was murdered in Istanbul. As it turns out she was murdered by a homeless man high on paint thinners. During the case people suggested this as a possibility, but I kept refusing to see it as even a possibility, because I couldn't fathom a strong smart women venturing off the road, and along the tracks in the part of town she was. The only way for her to have been targeted the way she was, was if she willingly went into an area that had clear signs of it not being a place to venture alone, and I couldn't believe in my wildest dreams that she would have done that willingly. But she did.

This is not a blame game, I am simply trying to say that we we qualify a victim in certain terms, and say they never would have because they were too this or that....we might be clouding our judgements and clarity on a case overall.

 

[Indy Anna]

Massachusetts authorities searching for SUV in relation to jogger's murder

<snipped>

Worcester County District Attorney Joseph Early said a dark-colored SUV was seen parked on a road in Princeton near the time 27-year-old Vanessa Marcotte was murdered.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/1...ng-for-suv-in-relation-to-joggers-murder.html

Just saw this new information this morning. I had been thinking of the perp possibly pulling into the entrance of Conner, where the break in the guardrail is, and hemming VM in as she jogged/walked past to block her escape route.