MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #4

[Kickoff61]

Yes I agree that someone would have to have been familiar with the area. Which is why I have maintained since the beginning of this case that the perp is in all likelihood a local. And part of the reason why I don't believe this crime was random, or a crime of opportunity, at least to me that seems very very unlikely.

It seems to me that the stronger possibility is that he knew her, and her him, and that he grew up in the area.

what I remain less sure of, is the nature of any knowledge of each other, as well as the motive, or even if the murder was original intentional or not.

There are many possible scenarios. But, he can know 'of her' or have met her ,but not been close at all with her. He could also be a local who didn't know her at all and this can still be impulsive crime of opportunity.

 

[JEF]

What was the white car sighting at 3? Was that in the police reports? Do we know what type of car it was?

Yes agreed. One of my thoughts is that someone could have taken her in a vehicle from BSR willingly or perhaps by force. And then returned her body back to that spot, only to make it look like the entire assault happened there. Thus effecting the direction the investigation took.

This could explain why no one saw anything going on. And it could also explain the sighting of a white vehicle and VM walking around 1, and then only the vehicle being there after they turned around, as well as the white car sighting on BSR around 3pm. First sighting could be when he picked her up around 1, and the. 3 o'clock sighting of the car could be when he brought her body there.

 

[Kickoff61]

It is understandable they would ask for tips to be called in, as they did. If a local did this , the community can really help. In my opinion, it will be solved and some people may take longer to call in info. than others.

 

[ThinkHard]

What was the white car sighting at 3? Was that in the police reports? Do we know what type of car it was?

It was in the police log under Monday August 8th, which was printed in the August 11th addition of the Landmark. but the report said the sighting had occurred Sunday a 3.

 

[ThinkHard]

Another 'speculated' thought would be about the cell phone. There seems to be various ways it could be connected to the Barn Restaurant, reported as a 'ping'. Excuse me if I am repeating anyone, but if the killer tried to cover things up with fire, he could have taken steps to cover things up with the phone. If he knows about Tech things, he could have tried to throw things off with a phone signal in restaurant area.

One possibility is, if she was in his car, her cell could have gotten in their too.

 

[JEF]

I hope you're right, Kickoff. My feeling - between the local police, the state police and the FBI, they've gone through the tips and they're not close to solving the case. Most likely because this was planned, the connection to VM was peripheral and the killer has no record. My guess is the killer's done this before and has gotten away with it. There are too many things about the crime that belie a first-time killer who knew Vanessa (speculation here - sorry).

So the only way the crime will be solved is if someone who has suspicions about the killer contacts the tip line. Maybe the police will release more info and that will encourage someone to do that.

It is understandable they would ask for tips to be called in, as they did. If a local did this , the community can really help. In my opinion, it will be solved and some people may take longer to call in info. than others.

 

[Kickoff61]

Some questions have been posed about how far speculation and sleuthing can go. I will answer the main ones now:

1) Regarding an automobile crash fatality that occurred not long after Vanessa was murdered: Until or unless LE connects the wreck/suicide to Vanessa's case it is not open for speculation/theorizing as related to this murder. Happening in the same general time frame as this murder and social media or other internet rumors are not enough to warrant it's entry into this discussion.

2) Regarding police blotter reports in the days before and after Vanessa was killed: Until or unless LE gives us some reason to believe every suspicious vehicle/person report/barking dog or babysitter call are connected to this killing they are not to factor into this discussion.


Posted by site administrator.

 

[ThinkHard]

There are many possible scenarios. But, he can know 'of her' or have met her ,but not been close at all with her. He could also be a local who didn't know her at all and this can still be impulsive crime of opportunity.

Yes I recognize that those are all possibilities of course. But I still do not see this as a crime of opportunity. Potentially an unintentional death covered up but not a spure of the moment decision to pluck her off the street and kill her. Just my opinion of course. To me I think it's much more likely she knew him well enough at least to not be afraid of him and to have known his name and spoken to him before.

 

[rosesfromangels]

It always heartens me to see so many good people on a thread, really caring, trying to help come up with research/ideas that can be helpful.
Here's what I'm pondering this morning...

Did he know her routine to the point where he was waiting in the woods for her to jog by? This would infer he was within "watching" distance of her home, and had observed her for awhile...to know that pattern/timing.
Was he waiting and watching that morning by her house, and then jumped in a car and raced to his kill zone? (Sorry for the indelicacy).

Either way, where was his observation point near her house? *THAT* is what I would focus on, and work backwards to find his home base. I speculate it's not far from her home at all. Where he first saw her and became obsessed could be anywhere. Grocery store, saw her running (most likely), neighbor, church, could be anyone. I'm sure that "could be anyone" is what has the community on edge.
I say, don't look far, look close. Very close to her home. All speculation.

 

[ThinkHard]

Some questions have been posed about how far speculation and sleuthing can go. I will answer the main ones now:

1) Regarding an automobile crash fatality that occurred not long after Vanessa was murdered: Until or unless LE connects the wreck/suicide to Vanessa's case it is not open for speculation/theorizing as related to this murder. Happening in the same general time frame as this murder and social media or other internet rumors are not enough to warrant it's entry into this discussion.

2) Regarding police blotter reports in the days before and after Vanessa was killed: Until or unless LE gives us some reason to believe every suspicious vehicle/person report/barking dog or babysitter call are connected to this killing they are not to factor into this discussion.


Posted by site administrator.

Technically we know the call about the 3pm vehicle on BSR was directly tied to the case because the caller specifically reported it being in that location at that time, on that day, and the reason it was called into PPD was because the tip line hadn't been established at that point.

 

[ThinkHard]

It always heartens me to see so many good people on a thread, really caring, trying to help come up with research/ideas that can be helpful.
Here's what I'm pondering this morning...

Did he know her routine to the point where he was waiting in the woods for her to jog by? This would infer he was within "watching" distance of her home, and had observed her for awhile...to know that pattern/timing.
Was he waiting and watching that morning by her house, and then jumped in a car and raced to his kill zone? (Sorry for the indelicacy).

Either way, where was his observation point near her house? *THAT* is what I would focus on, and work backwards to find his home base. I speculate it's not far from her home at all. Where he first saw her and became obsessed could be anywhere. Grocery store, saw her running (most likely), neighbor, church, could be anyone. I'm sure that "could be anyone" is what has the community on edge.
I say, don't look far, look close. Very close to her come. All speculation.

Couple things...

.where would he have been watching her from? None of the houses really have good vantage points?

She was found a 1/2 mile from her moms home, so it seems odd he'd jump into his car immediately zoom past her and then pull over, it would be hard I'd think for her to have not noticed this.

The only thing near her home are other homes, no stores, and none of the homes have vantage points. Especially not under heavy foliage in the summer.

So I'm not sure I follow your watcher theory, simply because I'm just having trouble biting on where he would have begun and continued watching her from.

 

[Kickoff61]

It always heartens me to see so many good people on a thread, really caring, trying to help come up with research/ideas that can be helpful.
Here's what I'm pondering this morning...

Did he know her routine to the point where he was waiting in the woods for her to jog by? This would infer he was within "watching" distance of her home, and had observed her for awhile...to know that pattern/timing.
Was he waiting and watching that morning by her house, and then jumped in a car and raced to his kill zone? (Sorry for the indelicacy).

Either way, where was his observation point near her house? *THAT* is what I would focus on, and work backwards to find his home base. I speculate it's not far from her home at all. Where he first saw her and became obsessed could be anywhere. Grocery store, saw her running (most likely), neighbor, church, could be anyone. I'm sure that "could be anyone" is what has the community on edge.
I say, don't look far, look close. Very close to her home. All speculation.

Yes, the houses in the vicinity of her home and running route.

 

[Kickoff61]

I hope you're right, Kickoff. My feeling - between the local police, the state police and the FBI, they've gone through the tips and they're not close to solving the case. Most likely because this was planned, the connection to VM was peripheral and the killer has no record. My guess is the killer's done this before and has gotten away with it. There are too many things about the crime that belie a first-time killer who knew Vanessa (speculation here - sorry).

So the only way the crime will be solved is if someone who has suspicions about the killer contacts the tip line. Maybe the police will release more info and that will encourage someone to do that.

I agree. It does appear this person knows what he is doing, likely to have done this before. But possibly caught off guard with her ability to fight and then she was found so fast. He may not have a criminal record on file , making this more difficult. Yes, hopefully those with suspicions of the killer will call in.

 

[Mskin]

It is my understanding that there is a cemetery further down that road, or very near by. Cemeteries often attract lurkers with unstable minds. MOO

Seriously?!??

Please don't take that as snarky or argumentative, I've never heard that. Is that true?? Every neighborhood has a cemetary doesn't it?


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[ThinkHard]

I agree. It does appear this person knows what he is doing, likely to have done this before. But possibly caught off guard with her ability to fight and then she was found so fast. He may not have a criminal record on file , making this more difficult. Yes, hopefully those with suspicions of the killer will call in.

I'm not sure I believe this person had committed a crime of this magnitude before for two main reasons....one is that despite burning her, he did not conceal DNA as far as we know, she was still still aparent my scratched him.....and two because Little effort was made to hid her.

He also would have to have known she would be found incredibly quickly given where her body was in relation to her running route, and he would have to have known identifying her would be almost instantaneous. (Dead bodies and missing girls don't really happen around her, so when both happen at the same time,it's immediately obvious they are related.)

So I've wondered if her location was intentional and perhaps slightly remorseful. Intentional because it would keep the net of search areas much more limited, and slightly remorseful because perhaps he wanted her found quickly.

 

[Mskin]

Of course this is just my opinion...

BUT I do feel fairly strongly that the chances of someone from outside the community coming into Princeton, picking that spot, parking over a mile away, tramping through the woods with his supplies, laying in wait that some female might run by alone, and then jumping out and grabbing her, dragging her back further down the path, murdering her, and setting her in fire, all with no one hearing or seeing anything, to fall some where btw, slim and none.

Perhaps when the facts are revealed, I'll eat crow, we'll see. I just cant see the premise of a boogieman in the woods scenario being liklest in this case.

Don't eat crow. It's gross.


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[rosesfromangels]

Seriously?!??

Please don't take that as snarky or argumentative, I've never heard that. Is that true?? Every neighborhood has a cemetary doesn't it?


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Unfortunately, yes. Most cemeteries now have survelliance, etc for this sad reason. Lots of teenage pranks, and far more serious deviancies. I won't ruin your day by posting them here, but such data is easily available by a search.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Couple things...

.where would he have been watching her from? None of the houses really have good vantage points?

She was found a 1/2 mile from her moms home, so it seems odd he'd jump into his car immediately zoom past her and then pull over, it would be hard I'd think for her to have not noticed this.

The only thing near her home are other homes, no stores, and none of the homes have vantage points. Especially not under heavy foliage in the summer.

So I'm not sure I follow your watcher theory, simply because I'm just having trouble biting on where he would have begun and continued watching her from.

Let's take a different angle. Who knew this routine? Did she run with someone before, or always solo? Let's go there.

 

[ThinkHard]

Let's take a different angle. Who knew this routine? Did she run with someone before, or always solo? Let's go there.

I believe as far as we are aware she ran alone.

 

[Kickoff61]

It just appears that no matter how much he may have experience planning things, that if she 'unexpectedly' fought so much, it all went wrong for him and turned into a 'rushed' situation, limited time, mistakes made. And as I have mentioned before , he may have not expected the successful search so fast. IF he had planned to go back in the dark to cover up more - that was stopped.