MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #7 *Arrest*

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I appreciate the analysis of ForensicMass I think you may underestimate the generosity of the taxpayer when it comes to illegal aliens. Though I wasn't thinking this crime was committed by illegals at first recent history is making me think otherwise:

http://www.eagletribune.com/news/ne...cle_3a28ca98-1096-11e7-bbb5-e715f9d806bc.html

http://patch.com/massachusetts/worcester/man-charged-strangling-death-worcester-teachers-aide


Also the jogger attacked in Northboro mentions a "small black car"....maybe that changed to a small SUV?

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/06/23/man-attacks-female-jogger-northboro-westboro/
 
I appreciate the analysis of ForensicMass I think you may underestimate the generosity of the taxpayer when it comes to illegal aliens. Though I wasn't thinking this crime was committed by illegals at first recent history is making me think otherwise:
http://www.eagletribune.com/news/ne...cle_3a28ca98-1096-11e7-bbb5-e715f9d806bc.html
http://patch.com/massachusetts/worcester/man-charged-strangling-death-worcester-teachers-aide

Also the jogger attacked in Northboro mentions a "small black car"....maybe that changed to a small SUV?

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/06/23/man-attacks-female-jogger-northboro-westboro/

The masslive link is dead. The other one basically mentions a van full of immigrants. They probably have one car between them.

In the current political climate it's nice to lay blame on an illegal. But there's simply no evidence to support that and in my opinion as I noted above, there is evidence to the contrary. My current profile is that This person has regular employment, but does not make a lot of money. Under or perhaps around 20$ an hour. I have also reasoned that he does not work the night shift. Everyone i know with a night shift job is either asleep or basically asleep (lounging at home) at 1pm on workdays and days off. We all get into routines. This guy was not sleepy at 1 pm on a Sunday. Can Anyone corroborate this thought?
 
I've updated the link for the strangulation death of the Worcester teacher by an illegal alien with a long criminal history including rape. Also the other link is about a van full of illegal alien sex offenders driven from WORCESTER by an illegal alien had you bothered to read it. Not "immigrants" as the headline would suggest.

There is no evidence to suggest that the killer or killers has a job at all. The attempts to assault the runners in both Northboro and Westboro each happened in the middle of the day in middle of the week and of course Vanessa's in the middle of the day on Sunday.

I am not saying these crimes were committed by illegals but it certainly can't be ruled out.
 
I've updated the link for the strangulation death of the Worcester teacher by an illegal alien with a long criminal history including rape. Also the other link is about a van full of illegal alien sex offenders driven from WORCESTER by an illegal alien had you bothered to read it. Not "immigrants" as the headline would suggest.

There is no evidence to suggest that the killer or killers has a job at all. The attempts to assault the runners in both Northboro and Westboro each happened in the middle of the day in middle of the week and of course Vanessa's in the middle of the day on Sunday.

I am not saying these crimes were committed by illegals but it certainly can't be ruled out.

I'm not questioning at all whether immigrants or illegal aliens or citizens commit crimes. We all know that crimes can be committed by anyone. I'm more focused on the fact that the SUV in question was apparently not observed to exhibit any distinguishing characteristics. Based on the fact that it was not a brand-new SUV sparkling shiny and it was not a really old beat up SUV that wouldseem to me to point toward someone with a steady income. I own a pick up truck and a Toyota sedan. If I was broke I can tell you which one I would get rid of first. My truck gets about 12 to 15 miles per gallon. I see multiple bullet points toward someone who is not unemployed. No we are not sure if the other attacks are related in the event that they are perhaps the person does not work on that particular day or perhaps they have an air regular schedule.

For the record you are correct we cannot rule out illegal aliens. I just see more evidence pointing away from that scenario based on typical statistics.
 
The victim describes the man who assaulted her in Northboro as Hispanic, 5’8” in his 30s, wearing khaki shorts and a black t-shirt.

Vanessa's POI DNA profile shows an athletic, light-skinned male and about 30 years old. He may be of Hispanic or Latino origin.

IMHO these attacks were committed by the same man. Brazen midday attacks on female joggers by 30 Hispanic males in a relatively narrow geographic area in a 2 month period seem more than a coincidence to me.

Whether or not he is employed to me seems irrelevant. And again based on the attacks day and time I would believe he was more likely unemployed than employed. Also if we are to believe he suffered serious cuts and abrasions from the attack and no one coming forward mentioning a missing or injured employee I again would lean toward unemployed given that he could probably remain out of sight for days.

I agree with your assessment on the SUV but we're not even sure if it's related to the crime. But the DNA and description from the other assault victim does not lie. We know the type of man we're looking for.
 
I have been thinking a lot about why nobody could recall more about the suspect vehicle and what that might tell us about the killer.

The description given by police was presumably one that was generic enough to represent numerous eyewitness accounts identifying the subject vehicle. The police described the car as being a dark colored SUV. To me this description indicates that most likely multiple witness accounts of the car did not agree on a color. Perhaps someone said they saw a blue SUV and someone else said they thought it was black, leaving the police with no option but to classify it as dark so as to be sure not to exclude the correct color. Beyond the color we don't know anything about this SUV. And to me that says that the multiple witnesses that saw it did not mention any other incidental characteristics of it They did not mention if it was old or new they did not mention if it was beat up or damaged they did not mention if it had any memorable stickers or out-of-state license plates. To me this indicates that the subject car lacked any of these characteristics which might set it apart from the average vehicle. If the car had been really beat up or old I would expect someone to remember that characteristic at least as much as they remembered the color of it. Based on these facts I suspect that the subject SUV is neither brand-new nor significantly old or damaged. From a Socio economic standpoint this would point toward someone with a job. and not to get too profile-y, I don't think this was the vehicle of an undocumented worker. I live in farm country and I could pick an undocumented workers car out of a lineup nine out of 10 times. I don't mean this as a knock on them. I simply am observing that people who are not of great financial means or who have great financial stresses or who have family outside of the US to whom they send most of their money Are not frivolous in their spending. This type of workers typically drive smaller vehicles that are better on gas and typically these vehicles are older.

someone driving an SUV is not concerned about the day-to-day additional expenses incurred by driving an SUV that uses twice as much gas as a smaller car. They are also not concerned about the additional maintenance costs associated with owning and fixing SUVs.

Specific to this case, we have a Hispanic perpetrator and therefore we are very likely have a perpetrator who was not from town based on the demographics of the town. That means this person was traveling around in their SUV. If this was the same person or people involved in Westborough they are covering some ground Further evidence to demonstrate that this is not someone who is completely broke or not working

Snipped:
Based on these facts I suspect that the subject SUV is neither brand-new nor significantly old or damaged

Do you think perhaps the same person that said it was blue, said it was new,and the person that said it was black, said it was older?
If not, why?
If, in your scenario this guy works, but doesn't work nights, and is out attacking people at 10:30 am on a Thursday, doesn't work days, then when does he work?
To me, it's hard to accept your scenario as fact. For instance..
The SUV may not have had the dealer sticker on it, but it could have been a year old.
I know people that have 20 year old vehicles that look brand new.
Warren Buffet drives cars that are 15 years old.
There was an old post here, where someone said because VM's parents lived in a ranch style house, they didn't have much money, even though VM went to Bancroft. Maybe they invested their money in her education, rather than a larger house?
The point is, what someone drives, or the style of house they live in, doesn't always reveal their economic status.

I have to agree with Fred. (welcome btw) There is no evidence that this person was unemployed or not. What if the SUV was borrowed?
 
If it is an undocumented worker (employed or unemployed), how would he know about these 2 locations? Worchester seems to be a central location to both. Is there a large Latino population there?
 
The victim describes the man who assaulted her in Northboro as Hispanic, 5’8” in his 30s, wearing khaki shorts and a black t-shirt.

Vanessa's POI DNA profile shows an athletic, light-skinned male and about 30 years old. He may be of Hispanic or Latino origin.

IMHO these attacks were committed by the same man. Brazen midday attacks on female joggers by 30 Hispanic males in a relatively narrow geographic area in a 2 month period seem more than a coincidence to me.

Whether or not he is employed to me seems irrelevant. And again based on the attacks day and time I would believe he was more likely unemployed than employed. Also if we are to believe he suffered serious cuts and abrasions from the attack and no one coming forward mentioning a missing or injured employee I again would lean toward unemployed given that he could probably remain out of sight for days.

I agree with your assessment on the SUV but we're not even sure if it's related to the crime. But the DNA and description from the other assault victim does not lie. We know the type of man we're looking for.

Your post is addressed to ForensicMass. For the record, he is the one that laid out very clearly a while back the similarities between the two attempted abductions of women runners and Vanessa's murder, so he needs no convincing that it is highly probable that the same 30ish yr old Latino man could be involved in the attempted abductions and Vanessa's murder.

(FM, Hope I'm not putting words in your mouth. I think you'd agree with "highly probable." Or, at the very least, we could say a "good probability" the same man is involved...)

I am also of the same opinion, as are a fair number of others who have been posting on this thread.

As to employment, there is simply not enough evidence to tilt my opinion either way, IMO.

The guy also could sell drugs for income.

One thing I do know is that we're not dealing with the brightest bulb in the bunch. Not only was the vehicle that the sicko idiot traveling in *likely* spotted, but he himself appears to have been seen by a witness or multiple witnesses. This is why I remain hopeful that LE will get him.
 
Since it's been over 7 months since Vanessa's murder and all we have is a vague description of a potential vehicle tied to the case for a murder that occurred in broad daylight I'd hate to think what LE would be up against had the killer or killers been the brightest bulb in the bunch.

I'm beginning to agree with Jack Levin that this case won't be solved until he kills again.

http://www.telegram.com/news/201608...hallenge-to-solve-crime-suspect-profilers-say
 
Since it's been over 7 months since Vanessa's murder and all we have is a vague description of a potential vehicle tied to the case for a murder that occurred in broad daylight I'd hate to think what LE would be up against had the killer or killers been the brightest bulb in the bunch.

I'm beginning to agree with Jack Levin that this case won't be solved until he kills again.

http://www.telegram.com/news/201608...hallenge-to-solve-crime-suspect-profilers-say

Apparently you disagree with my take. You're welcome to you opinion. Just because he hasn't yet been caught doesn't mean we're dealing with Einstein, though, IMO. Average to somewhat above avg intelligence, in my view.

Yes, I've read what Levin has had to say about the case. And, unfortunately, it might prove true that this guy won't be caught until he kills again. That likely has more to do with the fact that LE doesn't have unlimited time and money to pursue any one case than this guy's IQ and EQ (Emotional Intelligence, which can bring a person down, as easily or more so than can a sub-high IQ.), IMO.
 
Your post is addressed to ForensicMass. For the record, he is the one that laid out very clearly a while back the similarities between the two attempted abductions of women runners and Vanessa's murder, so he needs no convincing that it is highly probable that the same 30ish yr old Latino man could be involved in the attempted abductions and Vanessa's murder.

(FM, Hope I'm not putting words in your mouth. I think you'd agree with "highly probable." Or, at the very least, we could say a "good probability" the same man is involved...)

I am also of the same opinion, as are a fair number of others who have been posting on this thread.

As to employment, there is simply not enough evidence to tilt my opinion either way, IMO.

The guy also could sell drugs for income.

One thing I do know is that we're not dealing with the brightest bulb in the bunch. Not only was the vehicle that the sicko idiot traveling in *likely* spotted, but he himself appears to have been seen by a witness or multiple witnesses. This is why I remain hopeful that LE will get him.

You're exactly right searunner. For some reason my posts are apparently difficult to follow sometimes. I may have confused Fred.

Obviously these are guesses. But my guesses are at least BASED on some logical reasoning.

Generally, SUVs are driven by people who don't live paycheck to paycheck. They are expensive to own and drive. (Even at 2$ a gallon, a 35$ fillip for my Toyota is nearly 60$ for my truck. I'm not broke and I certainly feel the difference.) Are there exceptions? Of course ! But we want to figure out what is MOST LIKELY. And let me say this- IF WE ARE NOT GOING TO ACCEPT THAT THE SUV WAS INVOLVED, I THINK I NEED TO FIND A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION GROUP. I want progress, not regression. The police released basically nothing on this case EXCEPT THE CAR INFO. The police are very confident the car is a part of this. Furthermore, there were reports stating that witnesses saw a Hispanic male driving said car in the general area of the crime. Lastly, if you've ever been to the road where the murder happened, and where the car was seen parked in that VERY SAME WINDOW, you wouldn't push the coincidence theory. There's nothing there. No reason to park there and no reason to be there.

My tone is not personal here. Searunner I love our discussions. I'm speaking to the crowd here.
 
Percentage of unemployed people driving SUVs vs cars I would be willing to bet is less than 10 %. Which points me toward employed. Are there unemployed people with SUVs, yea there are some. On average, is an SUV owner employed? YES. But even granting that guess, that doesn't get us too far. But if northboro and Westborough events related, we know they weren't working on that day, which I believe was a Thursday around 11am? (Correct me if I'm wrong). So either he was off that day, always or by happenstance, called in that day, or worked later in the day (though the scratches could be problematic if he actually had them). So,

Even if you think he is a jobless bum,

Humor me. Explore the scenario. Monday morning he is supposed to be at work. He doesn't go. But his employer doesn't report his absence to police.

Keep in mind that at the time the police stated they thought it was someone VERY FAMILIAR with Princeton. The employer also does not know at this point that the killer is Hispanic. What if the killer skips work sometimes. Might not raise any alarm if he skipped that Monday. AND the employer and the killer could be 20+ miles from the area of interest in the case. There's also the possibility that any evidence of a fight on this guy may have not have been in visible areas. The idea of scratches in my opinion is based on DNA under VMs nails.
So what kind of employer doesn't take notice of a guy not showing up?
What kind of employee can get away with visible scratches?

I see this person working with all or predominantly male workers. Women notice these details. And are especially in tune in the event of a crime like this. What kind of places are mostly or all male workforce, lowish paying. Factory work? Landscaping?
 
Actually I do agree very much with your take. I think this was a psychopath determined to do harm to a female jogger consequences be damned. Reckless stupid and very dangerous yet LE to this point seems desperate for help. My point was if he was in fact much smarter and cunning I don't think he could have done a better job committing such a heinous act and to this point getting away with it. I hope it doesn't last much longer to catch this killer but I'm afraid it will.
 
As for employment what about auto repair? Different vehicles in separate attacks? Vehicles used unknowingly by the owners. Left for repair over weekends and during the week?The attempt in Westboro had the car pulled over and the hood up. Maybe they were actually inspecting the car? Also tools could be available without suspicion i.e torches gas cans etc. And I imagine injuries to the hands and arms would be pretty common place also in possibly an all male environment. District Attorney Early stressed "access to" an SUV.
ForensicMass and Searunner do you believe the VM attack/murder was done by more than one assailant like the attempted assault/abduction in Westboro? Do you believe it was an attempted "abuction"? a term the DA used. I apologize if you mentioned these topics in a previous post.
 
And you're also right about accepting the SUV was involved in the crime. It is the only solid information released by LE therefore we have to take it at face value. Your also right that generally speaking "poor" people don't drive around in late model well kept SUVs.
 
Does everybody think he will definitely kill again? Do you think he is still in the area? If he is an undocumented worker, he could have left the area.
 
June is also peak holiday season, so perhaps this explains the earlier incidents on a weekday. By contrast, he may have gone back to work by August and hence the Sunday attack on Vanessa.
 
As for employment what about auto repair? Different vehicles in separate attacks? Vehicles used unknowingly by the owners. Left for repair over weekends and during the week?The attempt in Westboro had the car pulled over and the hood up. Maybe they were actually inspecting the car? Also tools could be available without suspicion i.e torches gas cans etc. And I imagine injuries to the hands and arms would be pretty common place also in possibly an all male environment. District Attorney Early stressed "access to" an SUV.
ForensicMass and Searunner do you believe the VM attack/murder was done by more than one assailant like the attempted assault/abduction in Westboro? Do you believe it was an attempted "abuction"? a term the DA used. I apologize if you mentioned these topics in a previous post.

Interesting angle. I was leaning more toward stolen vehicles.
I wonder if that factor has been looked in to.

ETA: I just wanted to add that I still say we don't know the extent of her burns, only that she had burns to her hands, feet and head so I have no idea what tools were required - a lighter, taser, .cigarette? Don't know. JMO
 
Here’s my theory


The same person/people is responsible for the earlier incidents in June and Vanessa’s killing. The link is so strong – similar description of the man, similar vehicle description, similar brazen approach in broad daylight, and within 60 minutes’ drive. They waited a couple of months for things to settle down, and travelled in the opposite direction – this time to Princeton. Close but far enough away. There is a regional connection, but not necessarily a local connection. That’s why they wanted to burn the body and get rid of the DNA – they are relatively local and plan to stay in the area. Just like they stayed after the June incidents.

Vanessa was out walking/jogging, and the perpetrators (2 people involved, just like in the earlier June incident) were out hunting for a victim. They drove past Vanessa (maybe in the opposite direction that she was going) and saw her. She was everything they were looking for – petite, young and pretty.

They then turned around and either drove up slowly behind her (slow enough for the perpetrator to get out) or parked on the side of BSR around about the cart path and waited.

She was grabbed and taken down the cart path.

The other person then took the supplies (ropes / burning equipment etc….they were very prepared) down to where Vanessa was being attacked or the actual perpetrator took them with him as he carried Vanessa.

The perpetrator knew exactly what he wanted to do to her as he’d fantasized about it and planned for it for months. She was eventually restrained and somehow muzzled (perhaps with her clothing or other material).

The other person then drove away while Vanessa was being attacked, and then returned to pick up the perpetrator (and the supplies and perhaps Vanessa’s clothes) at least 30 minutes later.

My theory is heavily influenced by my belief that there is no way the SUV was parked on the side of BSR during the whole of the attack (30 minutes minimum). If it was, the descriptions would be far more specific (a plate number even) and the sightings more plentiful as such that the SUV info would have been strong and released immediately by the police…not some 4 months later. The witness accounts are generic and few because it wasn’t parked there long at all.
 
Here’s my theory


The same person/people is responsible for the earlier incidents in June and Vanessa’s killing. The link is so strong – similar description of the man, similar vehicle description, similar brazen approach in broad daylight, and within 60 minutes’ drive. They waited a couple of months for things to settle down, and travelled in the opposite direction – this time to Princeton. Close but far enough away. There is a regional connection, but not necessarily a local connection. That’s why they wanted to burn the body and get rid of the DNA – they are relatively local and plan to stay in the area. Just like they stayed after the June incidents.

Vanessa was out walking/jogging, and the perpetrators (2 people involved, just like in the earlier June incident) were out hunting for a victim. They drove past Vanessa (maybe in the opposite direction that she was going) and saw her. She was everything they were looking for – petite, young and pretty.

They then turned around and either drove up slowly behind her (slow enough for the perpetrator to get out) or parked on the side of BSR around about the cart path and waited.

She was grabbed and taken down the cart path.

The other person then took the supplies (ropes / burning equipment etc….they were very prepared) down to where Vanessa was being attacked or the actual perpetrator took them with him as he carried Vanessa.

The perpetrator knew exactly what he wanted to do to her as he’d fantasized about it and planned for it for months. She was eventually restrained and somehow muzzled (perhaps with her clothing or other material).

The other person then drove away while Vanessa was being attacked, and then returned to pick up the perpetrator (and the supplies and perhaps Vanessa’s clothes) at least 30 minutes later.

My theory is heavily influenced by my belief that there is no way the SUV was parked on the side of BSR during the whole of the attack (30 minutes minimum). If it was, the descriptions would be far more specific (a plate number even) and the sightings more plentiful as such that the SUV info would have been strong and released immediately by the police…not some 4 months later. The witness accounts are generic and few because it wasn’t parked there long at all.

Snipped:
My theory is heavily influenced by my belief that there is no way the SUV was parked on the side of BSR during the whole of the attack (30 minutes minimum). If it was, the descriptions would be far more specific (a plate number even) and the sightings more plentiful as such that the SUV info would have been strong and released immediately by the police…not some 4 months later. The witness accounts are generic and few because it wasn’t parked there long at all.

I agree with this.
I have said in the past, that, if the SUV is involved, there were two people, for the reasons you state.
Here's my question to anyone that wants to comment.
LE stated in the last press release that the "snapshot" DNA testing not only answers a lot of questions about what this guy may look like, but it also matches the reports describing the man driving the SUV.
If Snapshot can not determine the height of someone, then how does LE know he is of "average height?"
To me, there are only two ways. Either he was spotted outside of the SUV, or, someone that spotted him in the SUV was focused enough to determine his height while he was sitting in it.
If it is the latter, then why wasn't this same person/people able to say if there were two people in the SUV? If it's because one guy is in the woods, while the other is parked on the side of BSR, then how does the drivers description match the DNA description.?
 
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