Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 25

[colomom]

Bewick Lady....welcome aboard. I love it when lurkers jump in. Please tell us your thoughts about this case.....

 

[Bewick Lady]

Hi Colomom,

Thanks for the welcome

As I have said in my previous post, I haven't done much reading on the case for some time now, due to family life and also problems with our internet connection. Fingers crossed thats all sorted out now and I can start and organise myself better.

IMO, I feel that Maddy no longer is with us. I believe, that she took her last breath in the apartment, and that her parent/s hold all the answers.

So many things that Kate and Gerry have done has infuriated me. Including during one interview saying it was "normal" practise of English parents to leave their kids alone, whilst enjoying a night out. That really is not the way. My hubby and I have been on holiday with our kids and when they were small, where we went they went.

It seemed to me at the time after the alguido status was placed on Gerry and Kate they fled Portugal. When a few days earlier they said they would staying put and had no plans to return to the UK.

Sorry I am probably boring you as I am only repeating whats been said time and time again. I am going to do some serious reading over the next couple of days starting with the 30 reasons why Maddy was not abducted.

I do hope and pray that justice for Madeleine will come, one day.

 

[Bewick Lady]

Oops I think I may have hit the submit button before finishing my post :bang:

 

[Salem]

And what about #15.

What parent of an recently-abducted child doesn't get up every morning believing that "today my child will come home"? They grasp that hope like a life-raft, keep in constant contact with LE and hang on every shred of faith.

So why were the McCanns planning for the long-distant future and mapping out commemorative events to keep Madeleine's face and name in the news with the ultimate goal of raising funds?

You know I remember discussing this when it was happening and everyone was amazed how at day 10 of Maddie's missing, the MC's were planning 50 day events. I may be exagerating here because I don't remember exactly what day it was that we got the news of the balloon release, but I do remember it was early on.

Also amazing was the speed with which they set up the "fund" with bylaws and such. I think that was done by the 14th of May.

They had to know she wasn't coming back. Otherwise it seems they would not have moved so quickly because every event was like a "giving in" that Maddie would return. I would think that would be very difficult to think about.

Maddie - I pray you are found and returned to us soon and that justice for you will see the light of day.

Salem

 

[colomom]

Oops I think I may have hit the submit button before finishing my post :bang:

Took care of that for you....

 

[colomom]

Hi Colomom,

Thanks for the welcome

As I have said in my previous post, I haven't done much reading on the case for some time now, due to family life and also problems with our internet connection. Fingers crossed thats all sorted out now and I can start and organise myself better.

IMO, I feel that Maddy no longer is with us. I believe, that she took her last breath in the apartment, and that her parent/s hold all the answers.

So many things that Kate and Gerry have done has infuriated me. Including during one interview saying it was "normal" practise of English parents to leave their kids alone, whilst enjoying a night out. That really is not the way. My hubby and I have been on holiday with our kids and when they were small, where we went they went.

It seemed to me at the time after the alguido status was placed on Gerry and Kate they fled Portugal. When a few days earlier they said they would staying put and had no plans to return to the UK.

Sorry I am probably boring you as I am only repeating whats been said time and time again. I am going to do some serious reading over the next couple of days starting with the 30 reasons why Maddy was not abducted.

I do hope and pray that justice for Madeleine will come, one day.

I believe that you can consider yourself a kindred spirit of the board. Most of us have expressed similar views. Lately, our presidential election has occupied many Americans and it has been rather quiet.

Funny thing is, it appears to me that now that the spotlight is off and the McCanns seem to have vanished, now people are starting to discuss theory and really starting to sleuth the case rather than so much emotional battling, you know?

Do you read any other boards?

I am with you, it is all about...:Justice:

 

[Texana]

Welcome Bewick Lady!

It is always great to have another person join us who cares about what really happened to Madeleine that night.

I am hopeful that someday we will indeed know the truth. It is an astonishing ah-ha! moment to realize that the McCanns were planning events far into the future. It is clear that Madeleine became for them a symbol rather than a reality in terms of coming back.

 

[ZooKeeper]

I kept up with this case so faithfully when it was in the news and even long after it stopped being in the main line news, but I had to stop and take a break for a while because I was so angry with what I felt like had happened. I'm glad you guys kept it going and I see I have much catching up to do.

 

[Barnaby]

Welcome Bewick Lady & Zookeeper!

Thanks Tony for that very informative document!

I thought that I was well informed on this case but I had no idea that posters were available on May 3rd! So they are stupid as well as callous!
I always felt that there was premeditation but it wasn't a popular view, this brings me right back to that theory!

Eagerly awaiting publication of the 60 althought I think we have enough here already!

 

[Bewick Lady]

Thanks all for the welcome

Colomom, I totally agree with you regarding people doing more sluething and asking more questions now that the media frenzy has died down. I know like Zookeeper has already said I had to take a step back after a while as it really was getting to me. Not to mention the earache that I must have caused my hubby, daughters and family members Lol.

I just couldn't understand why the british media was so behind the McCanns, when other cases in the past had been slated. I still ask myself was it down to the McCanns being a more "priviliged" family.

I have just started reading the 30 reason why Maddie was not abducted, and would like to congratulate Tony on his work.

Sorry in advance if I ask some questions that has already been discussed.

I believe it was Eddie who picked up on the scent of death on some of Kates clothing, that she claimed she had worn prior to the holiday, when she had dealt with at least 6 corpses. If these clothes had of been washed prior to the holiday, would that scent have been washed away? Also why have these deaths she attended not been un/confirmed?

I did have more questions to ask but they have escaped me! I must learn to make notes as I am reading.

Karen

 

[Bewick Lady]

Welcome Bewick Lady!

It is always great to have another person join us who cares about what really happened to Madeleine that night.

I am hopeful that someday we will indeed know the truth. It is an astonishing ah-ha! moment to realize that the McCanns were planning events far into the future. It is clear that Madeleine became for them a symbol rather than a reality in terms of coming back.

Hi Texana,

Tbh, I feel totally inadequate campared you guys. I did think twice about joining websleuths, by thinking what I could offer. Then my father reminded a saying of my late mother......Some things in life we can't change or undo to help others, but its people caring that can make changes.

 

[Tony Bennett]

Thanks all for the welcome...I just couldn't understand why the British media was so behind the McCanns, when other cases in the past had been slated. I still ask myself was it down to the McCanns being a more 'privileged' family...Sorry in advance if I ask some questions that has already been discussed. I believe it was Eddie who picked up on the scent of death on some of Kates clothing, that she claimed she had worn prior to the holiday, when she had dealt with at least 6 corpses. If these clothes had of been washed prior to the holiday, would that scent have been washed away? Also why have these deaths she attended not been un/confirmed?Karen

REPLY: You ask an important question about the clothes. I am not an expert, but will share with you my understanding.

First, the smell of human cadaverine - the smell of death, the smell of a corpse - is normally only released after the body has been dead for two hours (some times a bit shorter, depending on the conditions).

So that means that for a cadaver dog like Eddie to detect the smell of death, a corpse that has been dead for at least two hours must have been in close proximity with the object on which the dog 'alerts'.

So, where did the cadaver dog alert?

1. In the McCanns' apartment living room
2. In the McCanns' apartment bedroom (the one used by them, not the children's room)
3. In the well of the driver's seat of the Renault Scenic
4. On two of Dr Kate McCann's clothes
5. On a T-shirt belonging either to Madeleine or Sean, and
6. On Cuddle Cat.

Thus a corpse at least two hours old - let us be bold and say Madeleine - must have been next to each of the objects above.

Now let us compare that with a Doctor attending a corpse, which Dr Kate McCann claims she did six times in a fortnight. Would a Doctor's clothes actually come into close contact with a dead patient? Not usually. It might not even be necessary to touch a patient. At most, perhaps the Doctor would take a pulse and find there was none. Usually the eyes, the rigidity of the body or other clear signs will make taking a pulse otiose (unnecessary). Only if Kate McCann's clothes lingered for a period over a body that had been dead for two hours or more would there be any chance of the smell of death being transferred on to her clothes.

It is still more absurd when we come to think why the smell of death could be found on one of the children's clothes and, most remarkable of all, Cuddle Cat. Dr Kate McCann got round that by saying that she sometimes took Cuddle cat to work. A likely story? And she took Cuddle Cat out of her car and into a house with a corpse?

Pull the other one.

In answer to yuor question, no, the smell of death cannot be easily washed away, though Dr Kate MCCann tried. It stays. Dogs can detect it even years later and severel feet underground.

The fact that Dr Kate McCann's washing was unsuccessful was proved when Eddie alerted to Cuddle Cat in a cupboard at the house the McCanns moved to in Praia da Luz after they had to leave Apartment 5A.

If that doesn't answer your question, or if others disagree, please say so. The dogs' evidence is a crucial piece of forensic evidence in this case and the McCanns have been in the gravest difficulty trying to explain it

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[Tony Bennett]

No. 27 ALMOST points to pre-meditation. Is it possible the McCanns brought the posters to Portugal?

REPLY: I don't believe that having the posters of Madeleine ready so soon that night points to premeditation. There are many lines of evidence that point away from premeditation.

What those Madeleine posters do suggest is that there was some preparation time on 3rd May.

It ties in IMO with a great number of pointers to Madeleine having died some time during the night of 2nd/3rd May

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[Lanie]

REPLY: I don't believe that having the posters of Madeleine ready so soon that night points to premeditation. There are many lines of evidence that point away from premeditation.

What those Madeleine posters do suggest is that there was some preparation time on 3rd May.

It ties in IMO with a great number of pointers to Madeleine having died some time during the night of 2nd/3rd May

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My only problem with her having died that night is I thought all 3 of the children were taken to the creche on May 3rd. Is that not accurate?
Lanie

 

[Tony Bennett]

My only problem with her having died that night is I thought all 3 of the children were taken to the creche on May 3rd. Is that not accurate? - Lanie

REPLY: Elsewhere on here, a few months back, I posted an analysis of all eight claimed 'sightings' of Madeleine during 3rd May, and showed why there were real problems verifying any of them. I will be quite happy to re-post this analysis on request, and perhaps update it, as of course we now have more information from all the Portuguese police documents, files , DVDs etc. released on the net. There are especial problems with the accounts of Madeleine at the creche; the nannies' accounts have changed over time and are also quite vague. I do not regard the nannies' accounts as proving that Madeleine was alive after the night of 2nd/3rd May

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[thefragile7393]

I just couldn't understand why the british media was so behind the McCanns, when other cases in the past had been slated. I still ask myself was it down to the McCanns being a more "priviliged" family.

Perhaps they felt that a "privileged" family would be in no way involved in a child's death that only lower-class people would do such a thing. Perhaps they felt that the "po-dunk" police in Portugal was too inept and stupid and there was no possible way that they could get anything correct, especially when their own police resources were so "superior" to the British. I don't know, just throwing out ideas.

 

[colomom]

Perhaps they felt that a "privileged" family would be in no way involved in a child's death that only lower-class people would do such a thing. Perhaps they felt that the "po-dunk" police in Portugal was too inept and stupid and there was no possible way that they could get anything correct, especially when their own police resources were so "superior" to the British. I don't know, just throwing out ideas.

Hello ZooKeeper and thefragile7393!!

I can't imagine that the British Police thought that the McCanns were above reproach. They see all kinds of cases and they know that child neglect is across the classes. I also believe that the British Police were very cooperative, in the beginning. Something changed and it became clear that road blocks were being set up.

I honestly believe that most of those closely involved in the case know what happened to Maddie. The evidence was not strong enough to go ahead with a trial so the PJ were "encouraged" to just drop it.

 

[Barnaby]

REPLY: You ask an important question about the clothes. I am not an expert, but will share with you my understanding.

First, the smell of human cadaverine - the smell of death, the smell of a corpse - is normally only released after the body has been dead for two hours (some times a bit shorter, depending on the conditions).

So that means that for a cadaver dog like Eddie to detect the smell of death, a corpse that has been dead for at least two hours must have been in close proximity with the object on which the dog 'alerts'.

So, where did the cadaver dog alert?

1. In the McCanns' apartment living room
2. In the McCanns' apartment bedroom (the one used by them, not the children's room)
3. In the well of the driver's seat of the Renault Scenic
4. On two of Dr Kate McCann's clothes
5. On a T-shirt belonging either to Madeleine or Sean, and
6. On Cuddle Cat.

Thus a corpse at least two hours old - let us be bold and say Madeleine - must have been next to each of the objects above.

Now let us compare that with a Doctor attending a corpse, which Dr Kate McCann claims she did six times in a fortnight. Would a Doctor's clothes actually come into close contact with a dead patient? Not usually. It might not even be necessary to touch a patient. At most, perhaps the Doctor would take a pulse and find there was none. Usually the eyes, the rigidity of the body or other clear signs will make taking a pulse otiose (unnecessary). Only if Kate McCann's clothes lingered for a period over a body that had been dead for two hours or more would there be any chance of the smell of death being transferred on to her clothes.

It is still more absurd when we come to think why the smell of death could be found on one of the children's clothes and, most remarkable of all, Cuddle Cat. Dr Kate McCann got round that by saying that she sometimes took Cuddle cat to work. A likely story? And she took Cuddle Cat out of her car and into a house with a corpse?

Pull the other one.

In answer to yuor question, no, the smell of death cannot be easily washed away, though Dr Kate MCCann tried. It stays. Dogs can detect it even years later and severel feet underground.

The fact that Dr Kate McCann's washing was unsuccessful was proved when Eddie alerted to Cuddle Cat in a cupboard at the house the McCanns moved to in Praia da Luz after they had to leave Apartment 5A.

If that doesn't answer your question, or if others disagree, please say so. The dogs' evidence is a crucial piece of forensic evidence in this case and the McCanns have been in the gravest difficulty trying to explain it

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Fabulous post Tony, says it all really!

 

[CaliKid]

REPLY: Elsewhere on here, a few months back, I posted an analysis of all eight claimed 'sightings' of Madeleine during 3rd May, and showed why there were real problems verifying any of them. I will be quite happy to re-post this analysis on request, and perhaps update it, as of course we now have more information from all the Portuguese police documents, files , DVDs etc. released on the net. There are especial problems with the accounts of Madeleine at the creche; the nannies' accounts have changed over time and are also quite vague. I do not regard the nannies' accounts as proving that Madeleine was alive after the night of 2nd/3rd May

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I would love to see an updated analysis, especially now that the case documents have been released.

 

[Tony Bennett]

I would love to see an updated analysis, especially now that the case documents have been released.

Please be patient, I have a few things to attend to first, will post an update after I have reviewed what I can from the released police files

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