Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #13

[Dlk79]

Thanks for this valuable info. I'll have to study it better later on.
The first question though that pops up in my head: where is "the" Vodafone antenna if we would have to draw it in these maps?
Would it be the purple one, slightly under 5A? The one that is named "b"?
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8AycMWdTzJo/VW9pSU_NtyI/AAAAAAAAB-A/xkcsMq2Vun4/s1600/antenna_ee.png

Not sure, isn't entirely clear. The second article I linked seems to put it next to the TMN mast, which is the same location that was linked earlier in the thread. Here:

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

Obviously, this isn't the one that was shown on the ITV doc, but that may not have been the actual mast either. In the 3rd post, the investigator from the first post says it is confirmed which antenna was pinged and it is to the south of apartment 5A, which fits with the above location and where the red and yellow lines intersect in the attached image.

 

[Chiatos]

Having entered the coordinates in GM (didn't work in Bing), the Vodafone antenna is somewhere very near between the Baptista supermarket and the OC:

Resulting in this location (more or less!) within the yellow circle:

 

[Dlk79]

Having entered the coordinates in GM (didn't work in Bing), the Vodafone antenna is somewhere very near between the Baptista supermarket and the OC:

Resulting in this location (more or less!) within the yellow circle:

Yes I tried those coordinates but couldn't find any mast on street view in that area. Have you managed to find anything?

 

[MENDEL]

What I've read somewhere is that there are two mast on that location, Vodafone and TMN. I first thought it was a shared mast, but actually they're two masts very near from each other.

 

[Chiatos]

Yes I tried those coordinates but couldn't find any mast on street view in that area. Have you managed to find anything?

Not yet still ....

What I've read somewhere is that there are two mast on that location, Vodafone and TMN. I first thought it was a shared mast, but actually they're two masts very near from each other.

But it's the Vodafone that seems to count

 

[redplanet]

Where is this mast exactly?

The basestation at 37.086352, -8.730732 (paste that into Google maps) is on top of a tall building 2 Rua Primeiro Maio. There are 3 large antennae each mounted individually atop the building. The antennae do not share a mast. You can see these antennae in Google Streetview from various nearby streets.

 

[Dlk79]

Not yet still ....

But it's the Vodafone that seems to count

On his first post he posts a picture of the vodafone mast (b) that he says he has found and with those coordinates (the baptista area ones) shown under the pic (see attached).

However, this location looks to me like the one I identified alongside the TMN mast. Here:

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

I think his coordinates are wrong but he's identified ths right antenna in the pic, which is what the guy in that second post basically says as well.

 

[peanutJelly]

I did consider that option, that GM didn't actually set eyes on MM but didn't want to admit it, but a few things has put me off that.

First, although he would not want to admit it, would he prefer to potentially jeopardise his daughter being found by restricting the abduction window the police would investigate? What happens if the culprit is found and it gets confirmed that MM was taken before GM's check?

The other thing that puts me off it is that the last of the Tapas 7 didn't arrive at the table until around 9 o'clock, just before GM's chceck and he and Kate had already been at the Tapas for 30 mins at this point. If the abduction was planned, and someone was watching the movements, you'd think they'd wait until all of the group were at the restaraunt before making a move. Otherwise there'd be every chance of bumping into one of the other group with MM. As the last of the group arrived (DP, FP and DW), they crossed paths with MO doing his first check. So again, if someone was watching the group, they would not act quite yet either. When MO returned he tells GM he listened by MM's shutter and all was quiet (shutters obviously closed at this point). GM decides he will still go and check inside the apartment anyway and leaves as MO settles back down at the table.

It "might" be possible that the intruder entered 5A just after MO returned from his chceck and before GM. And then got stuck in the apartment as GM entered and so hid somewhere (maybe behind the door). But I do think MM was still there when GM checked. JMO.

I think a lot of this depends on method of entry and exit doesn’t it?! If the suspected sighting of CB leaving apartment 5A via the back and quietly closing the gate is correct, then many of our theories here could be off as he could have left by the patio doors instead?

 

[peanutJelly]

What I've read somewhere is that there are two mast on that location, Vodafone and TMN. I first thought it was a shared mast, but actually they're two masts very near from each other.

Yes that’s what I thought I’d read, and it was the combined pings that helped narrow down location. I’ve looked again and can’t find where I read that though, sorry

 

[Chiatos]

The basestation at 37.086352, -8.730732 (paste that into Google maps) is on top of a tall building 2 Rua Primeiro Maio. There are 3 large antennae each mounted individually atop the building. The antennae do not share a mast. You can see these antennae in Google Streetview from various nearby streets.

On his first post he posts a picture of the vodafone mast (b) that he says he has found and with those coordinates (the baptista area ones) shown under the pic (see attached).

However, this location looks to me like the one I identified alongside the TMN mast. Here:

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

I think his coordinates are wrong but he's identified ths right antenna in the pic, which is what the guy in that second post basically says as well.

Thanks both.
Although I have not yet found the spot in GM 2009.....
But it does not matter very much; it's clear to me that the antenna is very near the Baptista and most probably within that yellow circle.

 

[Chiatos]

The antenna should be here then, near the Spar, see the red square:

 

[Dlk79]

The antenna should be here then, near the Spar, see the red square:

From this angle, it looks like the TMN and vodafone masts are right next to one another on top of the building highlighted by the spar, each mast has 2 lobes.

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

 

[redplanet]

From this angle, it looks like the TMN and vodafone masts are right next to one another on top of the building highlighted by the spar, each mast has 2 lobes.

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

Yes that's it. Image credit: GoogleMaps. 4 large antennae. Question: what is the source for this being 2 separate basestations with 2 antennae each? I probably mistaken here, but is it possible it is a single base station with 4 antennae?



.

 

[redplanet]

In the aerial footage starting at about 28:37 and later in the ITV documentary Madeleine Mccann: The Hunt for the Prime Suspect - Thursday 23 Jul 9pm the mast shown can be found on google maps at 37.101470, -8.723337. There are numerous background features which confirm this identification, for example the circular feature at 37.101778, -8.722911 and the distinctive row of 3 buildings on the N125 at 37.103016, -8.725889.
IMO the documentary is probably mistakenly showing completely the wrong mast, but I have these questions anyway about the mast at 37.101470, -8.723337 which is pictured in the documentary.
Was the mast there in May 2007?
Which network operated this mast?
What was the name of this mast in the extensive phone records in the PJ files?

 

[Chiatos]

In the aerial footage starting at about 28:37 and later in the ITV documentary Madeleine Mccann: The Hunt for the Prime Suspect - Thursday 23 Jul 9pm the mast shown can be found on google maps at 37.101470, -8.723337. There are numerous background features which confirm this identification, for example the circular feature at 37.101778, -8.722911 and the distinctive row of 3 buildings on the N125 at 37.103016, -8.725889.
IMO the documentary is probably mistakenly showing completely the wrong mast, but I have these questions anyway about the mast at 37.101470, -8.723337 which is pictured in the documentary.
Was the mast there in May 2007?
Which network operated this mast?
What was the name of this mast in the extensive phone records in the PJ files?

In the PJfiles it is called antenna PdL Centre.
I would also like to know whether the mast was there in May 2007.

And there is something else: going through the phone lists that PJ requested from the 3 providers at that time, it looks as if they scrutinised foreign mobiles only. Not the Portuguese mobiles!
Apart from those of the persons of interest such RM, SM, and others ofcourse.

It seems they didn't view all mobiles that had made contact to the masts, only the foreign ones were investigated.

No wonder CB was able to slip through with his Portuguese phone number.

Anyone, please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[MENDEL]

In the PJfiles it is called antenna PdL Centre.
I would also like to know whether the mast was there in May 2007.

And there is something else: going through the phone lists that PJ requested from the 3 providers at that time, it looks as if they scrutinised foreign mobiles only. Not the Portuguese mobiles!
Apart from those of the persons of interest such RM, SM, and others ofcourse.

It seems they didn't view all mobiles that had made contact to the masts, only the foreign ones were investigated.

No wonder CB was able to slip through with his Portuguese phone number.

Anyone, please correct me if I'm mistaken.

The log that contains CB's call isn't in PJ files. PJ files only contains requests for persons of interest. The log lists all calls done within PDL during a period (May 3 and 4, I presume). It was requested perhaps informally and isn't public in any way.

 

[redplanet]

How were the Tapas 9 able to come up with the times they were doing things, if they didnt have any phones or watches at the table?

I just found a statement that one of the group at least was wearing a watch that evening at the restaurant. The source is first-hand. "Madeleine: Our Daughter's Disappearance and the Continuing Search for Her" by Kate Mccann page 70. "Gerry left to do the first check just before 9.05 by his watch".

 

[Dlk79]

Yes that's it. Image credit: GoogleMaps. 4 large antennae. Question: what is the source for this being 2 separate basestations with 2 antennae each? I probably mistaken here, but is it possible it is a single base station with 4 antennae?



.

In the Shining in Luz pieces, and on the blog posts I linked earlier, they explain how may lobes each mast in the area has. On a mast, the lobes are proportionally directional to one another to divide the area they cover equally. So if a mast has two lobes, each covers east/west or north/south etc. If it has 3, each lobe covers a segment equal to a third, in the direction the lobe is facing.

If you look at this cluster of 4 lobes, 2 are pointing roughly east and 2 are pointing roughly west which says to me they are 2 different masts operated by different providers. TMN and Vodafone in this case. It's easier to see if you go into street view and go around the block looking at the different angles. Also the lobes appear to have different designs to one another.

 

[redplanet]

In the Shining in Luz pieces, and on the blog posts I linked earlier, they explain how may lobes each mast in the area has. On a mast, the lobes are proportionally directional to one another to divide the area they cover equally. So if a mast has two lobes, each covers east/west or north/south etc. If it has 3, each lobe covers a segment equal to a third, in the direction the lobe is facing.

If you look at this cluster of 4 lobes, 2 are pointing roughly east and 2 are pointing roughly west which says to me they are 2 different masts operated by different providers. TMN and Vodafone in this case. It's easier to see if you go into street view and go around the block looking at the different angles. Also they lobes appear to have different designs to one another.

You have explained very clearly Dlk79 TY.

 

[Lilly b]

I don't understand why it is plausible.
One was a rapist, thief, drug smuggling psycho from all accounts.
The other was a 20 yr old young man with a full time job and no previous.

Just a little more info, I wasn't aware of

SM was also employed as a ‘trip organiser’ by the ‘Corlett Lines Company’ who owned a yacht, the ‘Naomi Corlett’. It was reported that this yacht left Portimao in the early afternoon of 3 May 2007 and headed towards the marina in Lagos, near Praia da Luz. AFAIK this account was never confirmed.

SM was reported as using several different aliases: Nick Legaloff, Nikolai Fedorenko, Ivan Nikolayevich Petrov, and maybe others.

What’s he doing these days?

Although he reportedly vanished from Praia da Luz soon after he was questioned, it seems he returned soon afterwards.