Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #16

[Arnie M]

It worries me a bit if police say they can place CB phone "at" the Ocean Club.
IMO the data harvested in May 2007 locates phones only by the name of the mast, which yields a huge area such as "in or near PdL"

Triangulation expert evidence between the 3 masts using the azimuth (Angle of Arrival) and Time Difference of Arrival (TDOA) might get him very close to OC but I think they must have GPS (or WiFi connection as suggested).

But look at the many thousands of phone data which the Met experts used to track the 6 phones of the "doctors group". The data gives mast name only. There is not a single example of AoA or TDoA or phoneGPS being used in that analysis.

Yes.

But I think you are correct that it all comes down to what data was available from the tower logs in the first place.

My experience on other cases is the kind of data you could get say 10 years ago, is much less than today, and also there are limiting factors in what data is stored in the medium term.

So if you show up with a warrant a year later for a particular number, then it may no longer be possible to get more detailed data for example - this happened on the McStay case. All that was left was the specific data connections - e.g. inbound call.

This is frustrating, but of course LE cannot harvest all the data of all citizens whenever they want.

Phone tracking ..... I will try to explain it as simple as possible ..... years ago I did a detailed explanation on a different case , complete with pictures and diagrams , but I dont feel like looking it up again.

When you make a call it uses a high tech encrypted signal between you and the person you are speaking to .... and that signal has absolutely nothing to do with phone tracking .... nor is it recorded or preserved .

However every phone constantly emits "pings" .... a low tech analog type signal broadcast in all directions sending out feelers for towers and your physical phone in your pocket always knows where it is in relation to all the towers it is locating .... (unless you turn your phone completely off ) ... that way your phone knows which tower is closest with the strongest signal if you decide to make a call.

And if you are moving or driving this simple signal system continues to monitor surrounding towers so it can hand you over to a stronger signal as you approach it.

Each cell phone tower antenna (mast) has an array of up to 6 rectangular panels in a circle facing all directions .... but your phone only locks on to the one directly facing you (your phone) .... as you move one panel will hand you over to the next etc.

All of these low tech signals are recorded .... they take very little storage space and are often kept for a long time or forever ..... most importantly is that is how the phone company determines where calls are placed from and what type of long distance charges may apply .

Mainly phone companies like to sell the information to marketing and advertising companies .... no private information is revealed ... it is more like .... we have a thousand people (phones) from a certain area of a city stopping at a certain shopping center so marketing companies know the best places to spend advertising dollars.

Police can only access those records with a warrant ... and they can tell the direction , speed (elapsed time) between locations and if more than 2 towers are being pinged pinpoint location down fairly accurately. It is simple old school triangulation used by navigators for hundreds of years ... instead of looking at the horizon and a couple of stars through a sextant like the old ships did .... your phone looks at towers. Very simple.

In the MM case if the parents and group of friends remained at the resort it would just use the local tower of course ... and if CB was in the area it would indicate the same tower ..... but if he was driving around that information should be there also ... and typically police remain tight lipped about everything they know. Unless CB was smart enough to turn his phone completely off ... there should be a record of which direction he went the evening MM disappeared.

And that would be most interesting

 

[Arnie M]

I am a helicopter pilot so I offer the following as a glimpse into modern day tracking technology ..... it is becoming mandatory that all aircraft ping (there's that word again) their location worldwide.

Large Passenger jets , small Cessna's , helicopters , gliders , even hot air balloons.

Be prepared to be surprised how many planes are in the sky at any one time

You can zoom in to any country or town or airport ... even shows them on the taxiways.

Click on the yellow aircraft symbol will show the model of aircraft , registration numbers , destination , altitude , speed , and even draws a line from where it started out.

Amazing technology , and we are just getting started.

Flightradar24: Live Flight Tracker - Real-Time Flight Tracker Map

..
.

 

[Ardoch]

I'm still under the impression that this report (there was another one that stated even more but I can't find it) gives the fullest insight into CB, both in what it says and reading between the lines - apart from the silly photographs.

Madeleine McCann suspect's Brit ex claims 'I found beast waiting under my bed'

Not being sympathetic to him, but I think this was the girlfriend that he really fell for and tried to have a 'normal' relationship with. His actions, according to her, show that he couldn't do that and highlight what was going on in his head at the time and what possibly happened in his childhood. JMO IMO

 

[mrjitty]

Phone tracking ..... I will try to explain it as simple as possible ..... years ago I did a detailed explanation on a different case , complete with pictures and diagrams , but I dont feel like looking it up again.

When you make a call it uses a high tech encrypted signal between you and the person you are speaking to .... and that signal has absolutely nothing to do with phone tracking .... nor is it recorded or preserved .

However every phone constantly emits "pings" .... a low tech analog type signal broadcast in all directions sending out feelers for towers and your physical phone in your pocket always knows where it is in relation to all the towers it is locating .... (unless you turn your phone completely off ) ... that way your phone knows which tower is closest with the strongest signal if you decide to make a call.

And if you are moving or driving this simple signal system continues to monitor surrounding towers so it can hand you over to a stronger signal as you approach it.

Each cell phone tower antenna (mast) has an array of up to 6 rectangular panels in a circle facing all directions .... but your phone only locks on to the one directly facing you (your phone) .... as you move one panel will hand you over to the next etc.

All of these low tech signals are recorded .... they take very little storage space and are often kept for a long time or forever ..... most importantly is that is how the phone company determines where calls are placed from and what type of long distance charges may apply .

Mainly phone companies like to sell the information to marketing and advertising companies .... no private information is revealed ... it is more like .... we have a thousand people (phones) from a certain area of a city stopping at a certain shopping center so marketing companies know the best places to spend advertising dollars.

Police can only access those records with a warrant ... and they can tell the direction , speed (elapsed time) between locations and if more than 2 towers are being pinged pinpoint location down fairly accurately. It is simple old school triangulation used by navigators for hundreds of years ... instead of looking at the horizon and a couple of stars through a sextant like the old ships did .... your phone looks at towers. Very simple.

In the MM case if the parents and group of friends remained at the resort it would just use the local tower of course ... and if CB was in the area it would indicate the same tower ..... but if he was driving around that information should be there also ... and typically police remain tight lipped about everything they know. Unless CB was smart enough to turn his phone completely off ... there should be a record of which direction he went the evening MM disappeared.

And that would be most interesting

Hi @Arnie M

I agree with what you say from a technical perspective. Indeed in recent cases, additional locational data beyond pings (e.g apps like Gmaps) goes even further in terms of map pins.

My point was we don't know what data was still available at the time any warrant was issued.

IIRC, in the McStay case, the family was murdered in California in 2010, but the bodies not discovered until 2013. By the time a warrant was issued in 2013 for specific data on the suspect's phone, ping data was no longer available as it was not stored over multiple years.

So all the prosecutor had was azimuth info at the time the phone connected to a tower in the case of a call or similar event.

Critical ping data which might have showed the accused's movements could no longer be recovered. This represented one of the greatest challenges to proving his guilt.

All of this said, I also agree that PJ may have more detailed ping data that they have never made public.

 

[mrjitty]

I'm still under the impression that this report (there was another one that stated even more but I can't find it) gives the fullest insight into CB, both in what it says and reading between the lines - apart from the silly photographs.

Madeleine McCann suspect's Brit ex claims 'I found beast waiting under my bed'

Not being sympathetic to him, but I think this was the girlfriend that he really fell for and tried to have a 'normal' relationship with. His actions, according to her, show that he couldn't do that and highlight what was going on in his head at the time and what possibly happened in his childhood. JMO IMO

Definitely an abusive/stalky profile

I wouldn't be surprised if he did other rapes

 

[mrjitty]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Hi @katydid23

You might also recall this exact issue in McStay?

IIRC the killer turned on his phone and connected to a cell tower that overlooked the grave sites.

IMO he did it when he got back on the freeway after burying the bodies in the desert - thinking he was in the clear.

However the issue for the prosecutor was that no ping info was available. That ping info would have shown him driving down the freeway. Instead the accused was able to argue that he was far away and that his phone was attached to a more distant tower, as apparently happened in the area from time to time.

IIRC the reason was because the cellular company only kept ping data for 6 months but the police only got a warrant after 3 years

 

[Chiatos]

Maybe he connected to the Ocean Club wifi?

WIFI was available in hotels from 2003

Do you know whether the OC had wifi back then?

 

[Lyndaloo]

I was dismissed on this thread previously that CB may have had female help , but it’s not that unusual as others seemed to think

I’m still with you peanut, in that he may have had female help.

 

[Chiatos]

I was dismissed on this thread previously that CB may have had female help , but it’s not that unusual as others seemed to think

Peanut, I agree!

 

[Chiatos]

He was wearing cream trousers in the PJ mugshot photo files. Also: doesn't the mugshot show his hight at 1.8 m. So, he is not extra tall as described in several articles!!!!

Is that CB in the PJ files of MM disappearance??

 

[Pixie Child]

Can someone explain what is the connection between Amaral's Jaguar bought in 2009 and CB's Jaguar? Are these the same vehicles?
Also, CB being a drug dealer and GA being in charge of the anti-drug squad before MM case, did they know each other?

No connection. I googled McCannFiles & Jaguar & Amaral’s interview came up which mentions his Jag. He purchased it with the proceeds of his book & it was confiscated when he lost the first libel trial.

Good point. I imagine CB was small fish in Portuguese drug trafficking. It would be interesting though to know if CB’s supplier(s) were known to Amaral. MJ is a FB friend of KD (recently killed) whom I saw mentioned in a drug trafficking context but I don’t know if there’s anything to the claim.

 

[Pixie Child]

Phone tracking ..... I will try to explain it as simple as possible ..... years ago I did a detailed explanation on a different case , complete with pictures and diagrams , but I dont feel like looking it up again.

When you make a call it uses a high tech encrypted signal between you and the person you are speaking to .... and that signal has absolutely nothing to do with phone tracking .... nor is it recorded or preserved .

However every phone constantly emits "pings" .... a low tech analog type signal broadcast in all directions sending out feelers for towers and your physical phone in your pocket always knows where it is in relation to all the towers it is locating .... (unless you turn your phone completely off ) ... that way your phone knows which tower is closest with the strongest signal if you decide to make a call.

And if you are moving or driving this simple signal system continues to monitor surrounding towers so it can hand you over to a stronger signal as you approach it.

Each cell phone tower antenna (mast) has an array of up to 6 rectangular panels in a circle facing all directions .... but your phone only locks on to the one directly facing you (your phone) .... as you move one panel will hand you over to the next etc.

All of these low tech signals are recorded .... they take very little storage space and are often kept for a long time or forever ..... most importantly is that is how the phone company determines where calls are placed from and what type of long distance charges may apply .

Mainly phone companies like to sell the information to marketing and advertising companies .... no private information is revealed ... it is more like .... we have a thousand people (phones) from a certain area of a city stopping at a certain shopping center so marketing companies know the best places to spend advertising dollars.

Police can only access those records with a warrant ... and they can tell the direction , speed (elapsed time) between locations and if more than 2 towers are being pinged pinpoint location down fairly accurately. It is simple old school triangulation used by navigators for hundreds of years ... instead of looking at the horizon and a couple of stars through a sextant like the old ships did .... your phone looks at towers. Very simple.

In the MM case if the parents and group of friends remained at the resort it would just use the local tower of course ... and if CB was in the area it would indicate the same tower ..... but if he was driving around that information should be there also ... and typically police remain tight lipped about everything they know. Unless CB was smart enough to turn his phone completely off ... there should be a record of which direction he went the evening MM disappeared.

And that would be most interesting

Thanks Arnie, that’s super helpful. When Heriberto Janosch talks about ‘elements’ are these the ‘panels’?

 

[haden]

Is that CB in the PJ files of MM disappearance??

No, this is CB in PJ files when extradited back to Germany for child abuse crimes.

 

[tedtink]

Is that CB in the PJ files of MM disappearance??

Pic taken in 1999

Portuguese police mugshots of Christian Brueckner from 1999 reveal officers knew about sordid past | Daily Mail Online

 

[katydid23]

Hi @katydid23

You might also recall this exact issue in McStay?

IIRC the killer turned on his phone and connected to a cell tower that overlooked the grave sites.

IMO he did it when he got back on the freeway after burying the bodies in the desert - thinking he was in the clear.

However the issue for the prosecutor was that no ping info was available. That ping info would have shown him driving down the freeway. Instead the accused was able to argue that he was far away and that his phone was attached to a more distant tower, as apparently happened in the area from time to time.

IIRC the reason was because the cellular company only kept ping data for 6 months but the police only got a warrant after 3 years

I do remember that issue. Days and Days of conflicting 'experts' because the available data was incomplete. The information was not retrieved in time so both sides were able to 'interpret' the ping data the way they wanted.

 

[haden]

Do you know whether the OC had wifi back then?

Yes, because the Paynes had a high spec baby monitor that worked over wifi

 

[tedtink]

No, this is CB in PJ files when extradited back to Germany for child abuse crimes.

The measuring stick looks like it's leaning slightly, if you draw a line from the top of his head, allowing for the stick to be up straight he looks to be around 182-3 (allowing for shoes off), so pretty close to 6' imo, maybe a smidgen less?
There's nothing like going over finer details with nothing else to go on!

 

[tedtink]

Yes, because the Paynes had a high spec baby monitor that worked over wifi

Good point!

 

[redplanet]

The VW camper in germany has been described as an LT28. It has been reported to have had a either a petrol leak or a diesel leak: which is correct?
Moving on to the VW T3 camper in photos in portugal and spain. Is it possible to find from the grilles or fillercap whether it uses petrol or diesel?

 

[redplanet]

Yes. It's all so many years ago but IIRC the local towers had limited capabilities

If the Met had possessed the data required to perform triangulation they would have been doing triangulations in may 2007 of the phones of ex-suspects RM SM GM KM. But look in the files - not even a single triangulation was done. The advanced data which would be needed to perform triangulation was never harvested.