Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #20

[C.greek]

www.thesun.co.uk/news/12915322/madeleine-mccann-christian-b-russian-brothers/amp/

Nothing really new in here but a ref again to the Russian brothers, not so much as accomplices but generally as acquaintances I gather

 

[Ekliptika]

Test

 

[MENDEL]

Test

Succeeded.

 

[Victoria Chambers]

I'm looking for those news items about GA -and a colleague of his- being involved in crooked business.
The items had been posted not so long ago.
Anyone?

You know, way back in 2007 I read a double spread story (although it was a Sunday tabloid) a Portuguese woman saying her heart sank when she saw the News and realised who it was leading the MM investigation. I cant remember the exact details although I have ALWAYS felt uneasy about him from that day. There was a photograph included of him and possibly some children, I remember he looked younger with black hair and moustache, not how he ever looked as we know him! She gave an account of a way dodgy person, I know that much X

 

[MENDEL]

Does anyone has knowledge, if there had been forensic investigations in apartment 5J?

As far as I know, from PJ files, they only entered it and confirmed it was empty. Perhaps they should have spent more time with that apartment.

 

[Ekliptika]

Not written here before but followed this case from the very beginning. Found WS some months ago and have been following this forum since.
I think you have some really interesting discussions going on right now, and it was not my plan to comment out of fear to break the rules, which are many and not all familiar to me, but here goes. Just a theory that was sparked on your discussions around a planned abduction gone wrong and MM accidentally died in the appartment. Sorry if this has already been discussed or suggested.
If this was a planned abduction, and one that you might even have tried the night before, but the child woke up and cried for her parentes, what would be the natural thing to do in your second attempt? Maybe drug/sedate the child or do other things to ensure that the child does not wake up. If you use something like chloroform, this can easily go wrong and you accidentally end up killing your victim. Maybe you do not even notice this before you reach your destination and discovers that the victim has passed.

 

[MENDEL]

Not written here before but followed this case from the very beginning. Found WS some months ago and have been following this forum since.
I think you have some really interesting discussions going on right now, and it was not my plan to comment out of fear to break the rules, which are many and not all familiar to me, but here goes. Just a theory that was sparked on your discussions around a planned abduction gone wrong and MM accidentally died in the appartment. Sorry if this has already been discussed or suggested.
If this was a planned abduction, and one that you might even have tried the night before, but the child woke up and cried for her parentes, what would be the natural thing to do in your second attempt? Maybe drug/sedate the child or do other things to ensure that the child does not wake up. If you use something like chloroform, this can easily go wrong and you accidentally end up killing your victim. Maybe you do not even notice this before you reach your destination and discovers that the victim has passed.

Welcome, Ekliptika. I hope you keep sharing your thoughts.

That's a very good reasoning but I keep not understanding why should he take the body if she accidentally died. Anyway, even if she did with chloroform or something like that I think it should take him some time to understand she died. As he was supposed to act fast, that might occur already outside 5A.

 

[Ekliptika]

Welcome, Ekliptika. I hope you keep sharing your thoughts.

That's a very good reasoning but I keep not understanding why should he take the body if she accidentally died.

Because he did not notice that she had passed or he overdosed. He just did what he did and left the appartment with her “sleeping” and only discovered later that it went wrong.
Just a theory though that came to my mind if in fact this was a planned abduction.

 

[Dlk79]

Welcome, Ekliptika. I hope you keep sharing your thoughts.

That's a very good reasoning but I keep not understanding why should he take the body if she accidentally died. Anyway, even if she did with chloroform or something like that I think it should take him some time to understand she died. As he was supposed to act fast, that might occur already outside 5A.

Why take the body? To buy time. To carry out the sick fantasies that he didn't get around to fulfilling. To confuse the police as to what crime had taken place. To make people think MM had wandered off. Because his DNA was on her body. Sheer Panic.

There's plenty of plausible reasons.

 

[C.greek]

Not written here before but followed this case from the very beginning. Found WS some months ago and have been following this forum since.
I think you have some really interesting discussions going on right now, and it was not my plan to comment out of fear to break the rules, which are many and not all familiar to me, but here goes. Just a theory that was sparked on your discussions around a planned abduction gone wrong and MM accidentally died in the appartment. Sorry if this has already been discussed or suggested.
If this was a planned abduction, and one that you might even have tried the night before, but the child woke up and cried for her parentes, what would be the natural thing to do in your second attempt? Maybe drug/sedate the child or do other things to ensure that the child does not wake up. If you use something like chloroform, this can easily go wrong and you accidentally end up killing your victim. Maybe you do not even notice this before you reach your destination and discovers that the victim has passed.

Welcome Ekliptika (nice name). I think it's a pretty good guess and I am also of the opinion that this was a planned abduction. So, what about the twins? Wouldn't he have sedated them as well? If he had, should they have behaved differently the next day(i.e. more sleepy than normal)?
I haven't seen much discussion about how the twins were in the morning. Of course in the heat of the day perhaps few would have noticed. JMO

 

[Chiatos]

That's about 4G and they say before "it is in this apartment that the parents of the missing child are currently staying".

Before that:

"It is noted that next to 5H there were two bags of rubbish which immediately 'conditioned' the search because the smell was intense and the dog went to check. The opinion of the GNR officers was decisive in affirming that the dog was only checking that strongest odour to try to find the small from the towel."

So, perhaps when they find strong smells they try to find the weaker one they're searching for.

"Once again"
So at 4G and at 5J

I don't really know how these dogs work, but I assume they shouldn't get distracted by food. Well trained dogs shouldn't get distracted ... but perhaps I'm wrong ... perhaps it's what you have brought up

 

[MENDEL]

"Once again"
So at 4G and at 5J

I don't really know how these dogs work, but I assume they shouldn't get distracted by food. Well trained dogs shouldn't get distracted ... but perhaps I'm wrong ... perhaps it's what you have brought up

"Once again"

GNR officers explained well trained dogs screen strong smells to find their searching scent. They were not distracted by food.

"The opinion of the GNR officers was decisive in affirming that the dog was only checking that strongest odour to try to find the small from the towel."

 

[Chiatos]

RUSSIAN CONNECTION

Madeleine McCann cops hunting Christian B’s shadowy Russian pals who may have helped him snatch toddler

Maddie cops hunt suspect's Russian pals who may have helped snatch girl

The news here could be that the two are CB's associates and that CB was talking to them.
On the phone?

 

[redplanet]

Referring to this post (use arrow to go up and read it in full)

From the link, I wonder how they know this (bib):

It is extraordinary that HCW can claim to know these four things:
that there was a death, who did it, how, and approximately when.
Hypothetically a single photo might provide the first 3 informations.
But how does he calculate the fourth information (when)?

 

[Ekliptika]

Welcome Ekliptika (nice name). I think it's a pretty good guess and I am also of the opinion that this was a planned abduction. So, what about the twins? Wouldn't he have sedated them as well? If he had, should they have behaved differently the next day(i.e. more sleepy than normal)?
I haven't seen much discussion about how the twins were in the morning. Of course in the heat of the day perhaps few would have noticed. JMO

In my opinion, you would not need to do anything to the twins, kids at that age do not easily wake up once they have fallen asleep.
I have seen speculations on whether the twins were druged as they apparently slept through the night without waking up in spite of all the commotion in the appartment. Not sure if this is confirmed or just rumours. It Think it was mentioned in the Netflix documentary.

 

[tedtink]

In my opinion, you would not need to do anything to the twins, kids at that age do not easily wake up once they have fallen asleep.
I have seen speculations on whether the twins were druged as they apparently slept through the night without waking up in spite of all the commotion in the appartment. Not sure if this is confirmed or just rumours. It Think it was mentioned in the Netflix documentary.

Hi welcome.
It's possible but I'm sure one of the 3 Doctors who checked on the MC children that night would have smelt the whiff of chloroform in 5a if that were the case.
Yes, the twins' hairs were tested for drugs and no evidence of sedatives was found.

Tests show McCanns 'did not sedate Madeleine siblings'

 

[tedtink]

Referring to this post (use arrow to go up and read it in full)

It is extraordinary that HCW can claim to know these four things:
that there was a death, who did it, how, and approximately when.
Hypothetically a single photo might provide the first 3 informations.
But how does he calculate the fourth information (when)?

Possibly from stats that show a high percentage of missing children are dead within 3 hours of abduction, combined with HB's testimony.

JMO

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I can't see that he went in just to do something, as parents kept coming back and not necessarily at set times, I think he went in to take her. Then took her to a different location, and has filmed something for gratification and who knows what else, he would of been in and out like a flash.
He could of gone in the night or 2 before to sus the place out, and that's when the neighbours heard crying, more plausible I think imo

I get that and it seems more likely a quick in and out. The left item wouldn’t necessarily be something to do with his perversions, it could have been some he thought he might have needed to commit the crime.

 

[redplanet]

Possibly from stats that show a high percentage of missing children are dead within 3 hours of abduction, combined with HB's testimony.
JMO

Yes and additionally maybe HCW might know TOD fairly accurately from a photo which has a timestamp?
Or maybe from a photo which has no timestamp but for which the location is identified (and then the timestamp is deduced from the location???)

 

[Denis R Tandib]

IMO taking the body would be his first and most sensible option as it would be a major piece of evidence. We already know from Tannerman and Smithman that nobody would really stop somebody carrying what would look like a sleeping child.

After that we're back to exactly the same issue that we have in all scenarios - what did he do next

Wouldn't that leave forensic evidence?

I don’t know that ALL items definitely carry forensic evidence, perhaps someone here could provide certainty on that ... but given CB only left one hair in the DM rape case, it may we’ll be possible he left nothing incriminating on a small item.

What is for certain though is that it would be considered concrete/material evidence.