Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #20

[SuperdadV8]

German cops want to visit Portugal in 'final roll of dice' in Madeleine case

If true, it sounds to me like they got an assumption where to look. That would be great!

 

[Anxala]

Probe into German Madeleine McCann suspect could be closed in New Year

A source close to the investigation was quoted by the newspaper as saying: “The game is almost up for the officers investigating Christian B.

“They’ve been struggling now for many weeks to find new clues. Leads have dried up catastrophically and there are not hardly any new lines of enquiry at all.”

The source added that the lack of new clues came as no surprise to the Portuguese team who worked on the original investigation as they “believed for a long time that the investigation into B is effectively a wild goose chase”.

The investigative team in Portugal believe the focus should “now be on finding the person who actually took Madeleine”, said the source.

^ My link is from The Independent (6 hrs ago) although it seems to be using some of the The Sun's claims as its source. So between that and The Sun quoting 'sources', who the hell knows what's actually happening.

I am inclined to believe the bit about the LE struggling to make useful headway though since Wolters has more or less said exactly that in a very recent interview.

 

[Newthoughts]

Something we haven't mention
What about the twins, if he had gone in, just to touch etc, how do we know he didn't touch them, it would seem he went in just for MM if that's the case, don't you think
If he killed mm in the apartment, he would just of left her there, he wanted/needed her alive imo

I also think he'd have left her if he'd killed her. Just my opinion.

Far quicker and easier to go in, grab her and run than to risk doing anything in there IMO. Gets rid of all the complications of where he was during various checks. Makes more sense in terms of timing.

 

[SuperdadV8]

I also think he'd have left her if he'd killed her. Just my opinion.

Far quicker and easier to go in, grab her and run than to risk doing anything in there IMO. Gets rid of all the complications of where he was during various checks. Makes more sense in terms of timing.

We should keep in mind, that playing god is one of the most achieved levels, a lot of sadists fantasize about. It doesn't matter if it is achieved together with some peado urges.

What is the typical core area of playing god?

IMO we should consider, that taking the life of a small one could have been the one and only purpose. Defenselessness is an important aspect to achieve such a goal.

Sorry, that i have to point out on that!

 

[SuperdadV8]

We should keep in mind, that playing god is one of the most achieved levels, a lot of sadists fantasize about. It doesn't matter if it is achieved together with some peado urges.

What is the typical core area of playing god?

IMO we should consider, that taking the life of a small one could have been the one and only purpose. Defenselessness is an important aspect to achieve such a goal.

Sorry, that i have to point out on that!

I keep my opinion, that i see a lot of similarities to MN.

At some point, rape and abuse of the "weak" seems to be not enough anymore. The next "kick" is needed.

Taking, maybe abusing but murdering them at last. Fantasizing in webchats about it before and after. At least three (!) times reaching the "next level".

MN always stated, he killed his victims because he didn't want to be recognized.

Do i have to buy that explanation? No!

Playing god is an action, some other steps usually had been made before, until that sick psyche needs the final act IMO.

 

[Dlk79]

I also think he'd have left her if he'd killed her. Just my opinion

We could round on this a thousand times. Would he have still left her there though if he knew his DNA was on her? I keep making that point and it keeps being overlooked as an option.

Far quicker and easier to go in, grab her and run than to risk doing anything in there IMO. Gets rid of all the complications of where he was during various checks.

Does it get rid of the complications though? Cetainly doesn't explain things which the other scenario might. What about the moving bedroom door and window/curtains? If we take GM, MO and KM statements of what they saw, it would tend to indicate someone was in the apartment longer than a quick in-and-out snatch like you are proposing.

At 9ish GM states the door is not where they left it, he puts it back where it should be. Around 9.30 MO says the door is now open again. He mentions the room seems slightly lighter than his kids room indicating it might mean the shutters might have now been moved, but more importantly he suggests the curtains were still drawn closed. (Note: I'm not convinced about the light being from the shutters being open, in GMs statement he says that some of the slats on the shutters were left open anyway). Then when KM does her check at 10, the curtains are now pulled open as is the window.

Now, of course there may be errors or misconceptions occuring in these statements. But on the face of it, it seems to indicate there was activity going on in that apartment from before GM's check (door moved) and until at least after MO's check (curtains still drawn). That's quite a length of time to be in the apartment.

 

[tedtink]

The perp needn't have to have physically touched MM or take graphic photo's in 5A.
Sorry to be graphic, but removing clothing and re-dressing takes time, especially as the perp went on to take MM out of 5A
His usual MO was to masturbate in front of children.
MM may have woken up to witness the act or disturbed him as he was looking to burgle the apartment.

@Dlk79 is correct in saying that we can't apply a rational mind to the perp.
If, as they say, he has ASPD (Anti social personality disorder) - psychopathy, one cannot really challenge the perps actions from either our individual or a layman's perspective, or what seemed the 'easiest option' for him, or the most 'sensible' thing to do.
I think we tend to forget this.
Those with ASPD are sensation seeking, erratic, impulsive, irresponsible - all linked to excessive risk taking behaviors without considering the consequences.

Whilst all of these traits may not apply to this perp, his previous crimes suggest some may feature.

 

[snowpea666]

This is older news, but I find it interesting re-reading it again, sometimes it is easy to forget some info. Really worth the read again I think. Madeleine McCann witness says Christian Brueckner IS the man she saw near apartment | Daily Mail Online

 

[Denis R Tandib]

We could round on this a thousand times. Would he have still left her there though if he knew his DNA was on her? I keep making that point and it keeps being overlooked as an option.

Does it get rid of the complications though? Cetainly doesn't explain things which the other scenario might. What about the moving bedroom door and window/curtains? If we take GM, MO and KM statements of what they saw, it would tend to indicate someone was in the apartment longer than a quick in-and-out snatch like you are proposing.

At 9ish GM states the door is not where they left it, he puts it back where it should be. Around 9.30 MO says the door is now open again. He mentions the room seems slightly lighter than his kids room indicating it might mean the shutters might have now been moved, but more importantly he suggests the curtains were still drawn closed. (Note: I'm not convinced about the light being from the shutters being open, in GMs statement he says that some of the slats on the shutters were left open anyway). Then when KM does her check at 10, the curtains are now pulled open as is the window.

Now, of course there may be errors or misconceptions occuring in these statements. But on the face of it, it seems to indicate there was activity going on in that apartment from before GM's check (door moved) and until at least after MO's check (curtains still drawn). That's quite a length of time to be in the apartment.

I was going to reply similarly, the current theory we’ve been discussing explains most of the points in GM’s, MO’s and KM’s statements, especially if we accept that CB entered 5A before GM’s check and left after MO’s. To me this makes sense and the point Red Planet made about CB being able to hear voices outside adds to this line of thought - he could wait until a safe time to exit.

Yes, you have made the point about removing the body to prevent DNA/forensic examinations of it. I think that people keep questioning it because it’s a difficult part of the theory to accept. We are accustomed to bodies being discarded/disposed of after the fact to put distance between the murderer and victim and/or hide/destroy evidence. This process generally takes place hours or longer after the abduction. Your theory suggests that at the time that most of the ‘heat’ is on the incident CB judged it less risky to leave the crime scene carrying the corpse - if caught he was almost absolutely certain to be convicted of murder. I’ll say it again, it’s the highest of high profile cases and it’s unsolved, as unlikely as this seems (to me anyway) it might well be true.

 

[tedtink]

I was going to reply similarly, the current theory we’ve been discussing explains most of the points in GM’s, MO’s and KM’s statements, especially if we accept that CB entered 5A before GM’s check and left after MO’s. To me this makes sense and the point Red Planet made about CB being able to hear voices outside adds to this line of thought - he could wait until a safe time to exit.

Yes, you have made the point about removing the body to prevent DNA/forensic examinations of it. I think that people keep questioning it because it’s a difficult part of the theory to accept. We are accustomed to bodies being discarded/disposed of after the fact to put distance between the murderer and victim and/or hide/destroy evidence. This process generally takes place hours or longer after the abduction. Your theory suggests that at the time that most of the ‘heat’ is on the incident CB judged it less risky to leave the crime scene carrying the corpse - if caught he was almost absolutely certain to be convicted of murder. I’ll say it again, it’s the highest of high profile cases and it’s unsolved, as unlikely as this seems (to me anyway) it might well be true.

Another possibility of taking the body, as awful as it sounds, is that he had not finished what he had intended to do, in the way of abuse/ie he had not been fully gratified.

 

[snowpea666]

I have a wee question if MM was suffocated inside 5a, maybe in panic or mistake trying to keep her silent, then he took her already dead body to some other place, then he took say some trophy pics, now remember she was already dead in the apartment! How can Police say they know how Madeleine McCann was killed? concrete evidence she is dead, and how she died, so not just word of mouth by some second-hand witness.

 

[tedtink]

I have a wee question if MM was suffocated inside 5a, maybe in panic or mistake trying to keep her silent, then he took her already dead body to some other place, then he took say some trophy pics, now remember she was already dead in the apartment! How can Police say they know how Madeleine McCann was killed? concrete evidence she is dead, and how she died, so not just word of mouth by some second-hand witness.

Gosh, this is awful, but just to describe the typical facial appearance of an asphyxiation victim is best left to a google search.
Or it could be just from witness statement.

 

[Dlk79]

@Dlk79 is correct in saying that we can't apply a rational mind to the perp.
If, as they say, he has ASPD (Anti social personality disorder) - psychopathy, one cannot really challenge the perps actions from either our individual or a layman's perspective, or what seemed the 'easiest option' for him, or the most 'sensible' thing to do.
I think we tend to forget this.
Those with ASPD are sensation seeking, erratic, impulsive, irresponsible - all linked to excessive risk taking behaviors without considering the consequences.

Whilst all of these traits may not apply to this perp, his previous crimes suggest some may feature

It's important to consider CB's thought process may be very different to ours. People are understandably trying to make sense of what went through his mind, but sometimes it's just not possible to understand.

I've linked an article below, this is something that happened in my country a few years back. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to draw any parallels with the CB case here but am just trying to illustrate how in the heat of the moment, inexplicable things can go through a person's mind.

in this particular case, if this teen had just ran away from the scene of the burglary, even if caught later on, he would have probably just received a community service order as punishment. Instead he makes a series of decisions in the heat of that moment that seem incomprehensible. And yet, despite this apparently crazed state of mind, he still has the clarity to try to hide the forensic evidence and cover his tracks.
Teenager David Matthews gets life sentence for murder of midwife Susan Williams

 

[MENDEL]

I was going to reply similarly, the current theory we’ve been discussing explains most of the points in GM’s, MO’s and KM’s statements, especially if we accept that CB entered 5A before GM’s check and left after MO’s. To me this makes sense and the point Red Planet made about CB being able to hear voices outside adds to this line of thought - he could wait until a safe time to exit.

Yes, you have made the point about removing the body to prevent DNA/forensic examinations of it. I think that people keep questioning it because it’s a difficult part of the theory to accept. We are accustomed to bodies being discarded/disposed of after the fact to put distance between the murderer and victim and/or hide/destroy evidence. This process generally takes place hours or longer after the abduction. Your theory suggests that at the time that most of the ‘heat’ is on the incident CB judged it less risky to leave the crime scene carrying the corpse - if caught he was almost absolutely certain to be convicted of murder. I’ll say it again, it’s the highest of high profile cases and it’s unsolved, as unlikely as this seems (to me anyway) it might well be true.

Sorry for the misunderstanding but what do you refer to with that "this"?

 

[Newthoughts]

I have a wee question if MM was suffocated inside 5a, maybe in panic or mistake trying to keep her silent, then he took her already dead body to some other place, then he took say some trophy pics, now remember she was already dead in the apartment! How can Police say they know how Madeleine McCann was killed? concrete evidence she is dead, and how she died, so not just word of mouth by some second-hand witness.

And don't they say they are unsure of when she died? If in the appt they'd know.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

It's important to consider CB's thought process may be very different to ours. People are understandably trying to make sense of what went through his mind, but sometimes it's just not possible to understand.

I've linked an article below, this is something that happened in my country a few years back. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to draw any parallels with the CB case here but am just trying to illustrate how in the heat of the moment, inexplicable things can go through a person's mind.

in this particular case, if this teen had just ran away from the scene of the burglary, even if caught later on, he would have probably just received a community service order as punishment. Instead he makes a series of decisions in the heat of that moment that seem incomprehensible. And yet, despite this apparently crazed state of mind, he still has the clarity to try to hide the forensic evidence and cover his tracks.
Teenager David Matthews gets life sentence for murder of midwife Susan Williams

He did things to reduce the likelihood of getting caught which in any state of mind is a logical thing for a perp to do. In the MM scenario we are discussing, CB would have done something which made it more difficult to leave the crime scene and drastically increased the likelihood of a serious conviction if caught. It’s hard to understand what state of mind a career criminal would need to be in to decide on this course of action - all IMO.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Sorry for the misunderstanding but what do you refer to with that "this"?

I’m sorry I don’t know that I understand your question. If it’s “This process ... “ I just mean the sequence of events in a murder i.e. more usual for there to be time between abduction, murder then disposal of the body. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Dlk79]

And don't they say they are unsure of when she died? If in the appt they'd know.

Not exactly. I assume you are referring to comment HCW made on the podcast. I took it to mean the proof they have of her death does not give proof of the date it happened. The question was about whether they are able to prove CB was in PDL on the 3rd. As we discussed, if the proof of death is a post-mortem photo, then it would explain this comment. In the same podcast, HCW also refused to comment on whether MM might have died in 5A when directly asked. He also made a statement previously that that she was killed "relatively quickly".

 

[MENDEL]

I’m sorry I don’t know that I understand your question. If it’s “This process ... “ I just mean the sequence of events in a murder i.e. more usual for there to be time between abduction, murder then disposal of the body. Hope that makes sense.

Well, I put "this" in bold but that was hidden. I refer to last sentence where I can't understand what "this" is supposed to be.

"I’ll say it again, it’s the highest of high profile cases and it’s unsolved, as unlikely as this seems (to me anyway) it might well be true."

 

[tedtink]

Just going over old ground again, old articles and this has cropped up again, which was also reported in the AU documentary.
Unfortunately I can only read some of the Spiegel article due to a paywall

In the meantime, it has also become known that the investigators from Braunschweig had the 43-year-old in view in 2013. According to reports in Spiegel , the suspect was not interrogated at the time because of an investigation error.

Neue Ermittlungen im Fall Maddie McCann: Verdächtiger Würzburger soll Irin in Portugal vergewaltigt haben