Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #21

[peanutJelly]

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/Processopdf10page66-KateArguidointe.jpg
Another photo at the crime scene also shows the bunched-up curtain.

Yes interested as it points back to the dogs evidence as that’s where they were focused?

 

[redplanet]

Is it possible that MM moved that curtain and net curtain to look out the window? If not her, then who did?

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes interested as it points back to the dogs evidence as that’s where they were focused?

Looks like someone moved the curtain to look out the window or behind the couch.

 

[Dlk79]

Looks like someone moved the curtain to look out the window or behind the couch.

Natural option for anyone looking to leave the apartment undetected. Check the view of the side street through the window, check the view of the front through MM's window then leave when the coast is clear.

 

[Okapi]

Yes. Very early on, a matter of days, MM came to KM in a dream and KM woke absolutely convinced that MM was showing her that she was deceased and buried on a hill. KM was adamant that every hill needed to be investigated. It is very sad and as a Mum of a deceased child, I totally believe that MM was bringing KM a message. The bond between Mother and child, even in death, is like an invisible umbilicle cord. I cant explain it X

That's so sad, Victoria. I'm sorry for your own loss x

 

[redplanet]

Natural option for anyone looking to leave the apartment undetected. Check the view of the side street through the window, check the view of the front through MM's window then leave when the coast is clear.

Yes. If the curtain had been in this odd position already when MO checked at about 9.30pm, he would IMO have noticed it (because illuminated by the table lamp). Therefore the curtain was probably displaced to its odd position later than the MO check?

 

[Victoria Chambers]

That's so sad, Victoria. I'm sorry for your own loss x

I am ever grateful tbh that I was able to grieve properly. I realise that there is always somebody, somewhere, worse off than myself. Thank You Okapi X

 

[redplanet]

Yes interested as it points back to the dogs evidence as that’s where they were focused?

Yes, although Eddie's first alert was in the adult bedroom.

 

[SuperdadV8]

I am ever grateful tbh that I was able to grieve properly. I realise that there is always somebody, somewhere, worse off than myself. Thank You Okapi X

I'm so sorry about your personal loss, no words written down in here could ever express how sorry i am....!

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Yes. If the curtain had been in this odd position already when MO checked at about 9.30pm, he would IMO have noticed it (because illuminated by the table lamp). Therefore the curtain was probably displaced to its odd position later than the MO check?

I agree with you that it’s logical that he would have noticed it but he wasn’t looking for things like this and his check wasn’t a thorough one ... just listening out for noise and a quick glance into the room so he may not have noticed it.

Given the position of the door, I’m putting CB behind it during this check perhaps restraining MM.

Your point about hearing GM and JW speaking and then this viewing point of the side street I think adds really excellent support to the theory that the intruder was in 5A for a while ... perhaps during both checks but certainly during MO’s.

The people who really should have noticed this clue with the curtain are the PJ and GA.

 

[redplanet]

I agree with you that it’s logical that he would have noticed it but he wasn’t looking for things like this and his check wasn’t a thorough one ... just listening out for noise and a quick glance into the room so he may not have noticed it.

Given the position of the door, I’m putting CB behind it during this check perhaps restraining MM.

Your point about hearing GM and JW speaking and then this viewing point of the side street I think adds really excellent support to the theory that the intruder was in 5A for a while ... perhaps during both checks but certainly during MO’s.

The people who really should have noticed this clue with the curtain are the PJ and GA.

Although MO did pause for a little time near the lounge sideboard (books), and that little table lamp was lit.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Although he did pause for a little time near the lounge sideboard (books), and that little table lamp was lit.

True but even if he did see it, it might not have registered.

 

[redplanet]

Yes possible it didnt register.
PJ/GA seemed to think the odd curtain position was caused by someone pulling the sofa out away from the window then pushing it back again against the window.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I am wondering if this information points to an exit via the front door?

CB could see the side street and listen for people coming from the viewpoint in the living area. This is the viewpoint where the checkers were coming from.

As Dlk points out, with the window open in the kids room, he could see and hear the front area. The chair under the window in this room may have improved his vantage point.

Therefore to exit, he checked the side street until the coast was clear then into the kids room to check the front area. Then pick up MM and exit through the front door.

Yes, he could have exited out of the window but carrying a child it would have taken more time and is very suspicious if a random person does see it. It seems a pointless risk to take given he had insight from the surveillance he had made with the checks - he knew no one was coming from the Tapas group.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Then turn left out of the front door, left again, then right, then left, down the hill and he crosses paths with the Smith family.

 

[redplanet]

I am wondering if this information points to an exit via the front door?

CB could see the side street and listen for people coming from the viewpoint in the living area. This is the viewpoint where the checkers were coming from.

As Dlk points out, with the window open in the kids room, he could see and hear the front area. The chair under the window in this room may have improved his vantage point.

Therefore to exit, he checked the side street until the coast was clear then into the kids room to check the front area. Then pick up MM and exit through the front door.

Yes, he could have exited out of the window but carrying a child it would have taken more time and is very suspicious if someone does see it. It seems a pointless risk to take given he had insight from the surveillance he had made with the checks - he knew no one was coming from the Tapas group.

So in that scenario the intruder would be in, or pass through, these rooms/areas: child bedroom, lounge/diner, hall. Might he at any stage go into the other bedroom, perhaps to hide?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

So in that scenario the intruder would be in, or pass through, these rooms/areas: child bedroom, lounge/diner, hall. Might he at any stage go into the other bedroom, perhaps to hide?

If he was in 5A during GM’s check, it seems possible that he hid in the parents bedroom. I say this because GM went through the lounge/diner into the kids room and into the bathroom. It makes sense to hide here during this check but obviously he didn’t know in advance where GM would go in the apartment. While GM was in the bathroom, he could have changed his hiding location. I don’t think he need to go in there to check the exterior of the apartment out of the window but I could be wrong, just doesn’t give him much more information.

 

[redplanet]

Then turn left out of the front door, left again, then right, then left, down the hill and he crosses paths with the Smith family.

After the about 930 MO check there is further foot traffic for a departing intruder to slot around: JT walks from restaurant to 5D (to take over childcare), and then ROB walks from 5D to restaurant (to recommence meal).

 

[redplanet]

If he was in 5A during GM’s check, it seems possible that he hid in the parents bedroom. I say this because GM went through the lounge/diner into the kids room and into the bathroom. It makes sense to hide here during this check but obviously he didn’t know in advance where GM would go in the apartment. While GM was in the bathroom, he could have changed his hiding location. I don’t think he need to go in there to check the exterior of the apartment out of the window but I could be wrong, just doesn’t give him much more information.

Agreed no reason to go in there for looking out purposes. But a completely different scenario is if after GM check, M independently wakes, goes to other bedroom, falls asleep there, before intruder enters apartment.

 

[Arnie M]

If I was a parent and my child was missing I would yank every curtain and sofa around and check behind and underneath everything ... even yank stuff out of closets to see if she was there.

How many of the Tapas 5 friends could have done the same while searching ??

It is extremely doubtful that those apartment pictures represent an undisturbed crime scene .

I bet even the first police on the scene checked everywhere in the apartment. Remember at that time nobody knew this was going to be an international kidnapping story. It was just a missing kid at first.