Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect #28

[SuperdadV8]

Bit of a nothing article from the Express but the following bit caught my eye.

“Helge looked at what was on it first and he said: ‘Manni, look at this.’ And then I saw what was on it.”

According to Sat.1, the camera – which the police never found – contained child *advertiser censored*. The pistol reportedly no longer exists.

Is that true? Did they say in the documentary that there was also CP on the camera HB and MS stole?

I assumed the Express had just got that mixed up with the other camera memory card the BKA found at the factory, but the article mentions that one as well later on. And the above extract specifically says there was CP on the camera that has never been found (which is the one HB says he left in his vehicle). Can anyone clarify what it said about it in the doc exactly?

'Terrible' Madeleine McCann suspect 'could have broken in' to resort she was taken from

MS always just said, that the second video showed the "young girl".

 

[C.greek]

I think we need someone knowledgeable of the continental law system. all the useful remarks that @mrjitty has expressed based on their own experience, which are applicable in common law systems, do not appear to have such a bearing on the continental law system, and we might be missing in this way crucial elements. all these of course would be applicable if the case reaches court, but it would be good to have these in mind to understand how the investigation works. perhaps @SuperdadV8 could help here?

On propensity reasoning, I found this academic critique and review of propensity evidence in continental legal systems by a Professor in Law at Yale University very helpful to understand the difference between the two systems on how they deal with propensity reasoning:

As in common law systems, prior convictions can be used to establish an element of a crime, such as intent, or a particular modus operandi. In addition, in contrast to the common law, a criminal record can also be relied upon to establish a particular inclination of the accused -provided, of course, that the inclination can reasonably be inferred from the conduct that was the object of a prior conviction. The more the inclination appears unusual, the more the inference of propensity is thought to be appropriate. [...]
The commission of any felony is thought to indicate a "general readiness," or proclivity, to break the law, and appears relevant in assessing the probability that the accused is committing perjury on the stand.[...]
Criminal defendants are not treated as ordinary witnesses in continental criminal procedure. Although they are regularly subject to interrogation at the outset of the trial, they are not permitted to testify under oath, and are under no legal obligation to tell the truth.[...]
the association between prior conviction and present guilt is bound to be stronger, and the inferences from prior convictions to present guilt can be drawn-ceteris paribus-with somewhat greater confidence. [...]
Instances of prior sexual misconduct are used to support convictions of sex crimes, and early training in pickpocketing is used for larceny convictions. Even the fact that the accused socializes with known criminals can apparently be treated as an indication of present guilt.

Mirjan R. Damaška, Propensity Evidence in Continental Legal Systems, Chicago-Kent Law Review 70 (1994): 55.

you might be finding these boring but I find it fascinating learning so much about the difference in legal approaches towards such serious crimes. if I bore you, apologies

 

[C.greek]

MS always just said, that the second video showed the "young girl".

so you think the CP mentioned in the documentary(did he?) and regurgitated in the express article refers to the 'young girl', i.e. a teenager?

 

[SuperdadV8]

so you think the CP mentioned in the documentary(did he?) and regurgitated in the express article refers to the 'young girl', i.e. a teenager?

Would like to see MS referring to a teenager in the video, because he uses the same phrase whilst talking about CB coming up at orgiva with "a young girl around 15 or 16 years of age".

 

[C.greek]

Would like to see MS referring to a teenager in the video, because he uses the same phrase whilst talking about CB coming up at orgiva with "a young girl around 15 or 16 years of age".

yes, it does make more sense.

 

[Lilly b]

Bit of a nothing article from the Express but the following bit caught my eye.

“Helge looked at what was on it first and he said: ‘Manni, look at this.’ And then I saw what was on it.”

According to Sat.1, the camera – which the police never found – contained child *advertiser censored*. The pistol reportedly no longer exists.

Is that true? Did they say in the documentary that there was also CP on the camera HB and MS stole?

I assumed the Express had just got that mixed up with the other camera memory card the BKA found at the factory, but the article mentions that one as well later on. And the above extract specifically says there was CP on the camera that has never been found (which is the one HB says he left in his vehicle). Can anyone clarify what it said about it in the doc exactly?

'Terrible' Madeleine McCann suspect 'could have broken in' to resort she was taken from

Have you watched the docs ? I've not had time to watch them properly, and had use subtitles,. But what I was thinking is he was writing to the woman saying oh they've nothing on me, I was just a drug dealer, so why did she not bring up about his stash of images and videos, and the young girl he took pictures of, that he got done for.
or has she and I've not seen it, because their the type of questions I'd ask

 

[Tekno]

Bit of a nothing article from the Express but the following bit caught my eye.

“Helge looked at what was on it first and he said: ‘Manni, look at this.’ And then I saw what was on it.”

According to Sat.1, the camera – which the police never found – contained child *advertiser censored*. The pistol reportedly no longer exists.

Is that true? Did they say in the documentary that there was also CP on the camera HB and MS stole?

I assumed the Express had just got that mixed up with the other camera memory card the BKA found at the factory, but the article mentions that one as well later on. And the above extract specifically says there was CP on the camera that has never been found (which is the one HB says he left in his vehicle). Can anyone clarify what it said about it in the doc exactly?

'Terrible' Madeleine McCann suspect 'could have broken in' to resort she was taken from

I think it’s accurate. CP on camera.

 

[C.greek]

What is the significance of reregistering the Jag in Germany on the 4th of May? I am sure we have discussed this before but it just occurred to me that it was one of the key points The BKA mentioned in their public appeal... was it to cover his tracks? Or is this what the BKA could be inferring?

 

[Hygge]

Not long ago I found this article from 2019 and I think it has to do with the girl in the video?

„Sex crime in Portugal some 18 years ago: BKA searches for victim of mysterious case


Tuesday, 26.11.2019, 09:54

The Federal Criminal Police Office is looking for the victim of a sexual offence. The crime occurred between 2001 and 2006 in the south of Portugal. The victim and persons who can provide information about the crime should urgently contact the police.

A mysterious old case is currently occupying the Federal Criminal Police Office. The time period as well as the location are only roughly described: According to the current state of the investigation, an unspecified sexual offence occurred between January 2001 and April 2006 in the Algarve in the Lagos area in southern Portugal. The female victim spoke German and was presumably under 18 years of age at the time of the crime.

BKABetween 2001 and 2006, a sexual offence occurred in this region. The BKA is looking for the victim as well as for witnesses to the crime.

The Federal Criminal Police Office is now looking for witnesses who can provide information about the victim, or the woman herself. Information can be obtained from the BKA by calling +49 (0)611 55 15666. Witnesses can also contact any other police station.“



Sexualstraftat vor rund 18 Jahren in Portugal: BKA sucht jetzt nach Opfer von mysteriösem Fall

 

[C.greek]

Not long ago I found this article from 2019 and I think it has to do with the girl in the video?

„Sex crime in Portugal some 18 years ago: BKA searches for victim of mysterious case


Tuesday, 26.11.2019, 09:54

The Federal Criminal Police Office is looking for the victim of a sexual offence. The crime occurred between 2001 and 2006 in the south of Portugal. The victim and persons who can provide information about the crime should urgently contact the police.

A mysterious old case is currently occupying the Federal Criminal Police Office. The time period as well as the location are only roughly described: According to the current state of the investigation, an unspecified sexual offence occurred between January 2001 and April 2006 in the Algarve in the Lagos area in southern Portugal. The female victim spoke German and was presumably under 18 years of age at the time of the crime.

BKABetween 2001 and 2006, a sexual offence occurred in this region. The BKA is looking for the victim as well as for witnesses to the crime.

The Federal Criminal Police Office is now looking for witnesses who can provide information about the victim, or the woman herself. Information can be obtained from the BKA by calling +49 (0)611 55 15666. Witnesses can also contact any other police station.“



Sexualstraftat vor rund 18 Jahren in Portugal: BKA sucht jetzt nach Opfer von mysteriösem Fall

Interesting! Yes it must relate to the information HB gave. Could it be one of the teenagers NF was 'hosting'?

 

[Anxala]

That's not entirely accurate. We the public did not know quite a lot from what was presented. The BKA knew these leads and statements of course, since the doc found and spoke with witnesses already interviewed many times by the BKA. this is what they meant- nothing new to the BKA not the public

^ No, I appreciate that, but what I mean is that at the end of the day, all these promised 'shocking' new revelations don't add up to a hill of beans in taking the case forward. For sure, they generate new discussion but it's round the houses discussion because we're still completely in the dark as to what allegedly links CB so emphatically to MM.

 

[Hygge]

There is a German documentary on YouTube where Manfred says…ah the girl from the “ Sozialstation” that’s a kind of shelter home. I assume it could be the girl who was pregnant later, L.

This is the video with very long interview with MS where he mentions the Sozialstation

 

[JB1510]

DBM

 

[JB1510]

This is obviously before the Milan photo so possibly at its biggest margin say 2013 -2017 , I think 15/16 .He does not look good , heavy boozing and generally not giving a feck about yourself I dread to think the life that lead to that point in time .This is how I expected him to appear , if you look at the photo from Spain and this it is quite a transformation in not that long a time span .I can easily see him kipping in whatever heap he’s driving in or site in the woods possibly ?? However , he rode his luck
again as his appearance improved though aged were better , that and the Italians letting him borrow some soap and water .

 

[C.greek]

Have you watched the docs ? I've not had time to watch them properly, and had use subtitles,. But what I was thinking is he was writing to the woman saying oh they've nothing on me, I was just a drug dealer, so why did she not bring up about his stash of images and videos, and the young girl he took pictures of, that he got done for.
or has she and I've not seen it, because their the type of questions I'd ask

Not sure what she has asked him but in one letter where he is seemingly responding to a question she posed about the 72-yo he appears rather abrupt saying it is now clear (after he was convicted) that he was not or could not be the perpetrator and then tells her off that she hasn't done her research well. So I would imagine she may have tried in some way to ask him but from the letters i have been able to see and make out there is no mention of that at all.

 

[snowpea666]

Possibly penned under a pseudonym - Holger Wahnsinn?

JMO

He likes to draw, maybe drawings to accompany his writings ???

 

[tedtink]

What is the significance of reregistering the Jag in Germany on the 4th of May? I am sure we have discussed this before but it just occurred to me that it was one of the key points The BKA mentioned in their public appeal... was it to cover his tracks? Or is this what the BKA could be inferring?

@SuperdadV8 If the Jag was re-registered on May 4, does that mean it would have had a set of new registration plates for Augsburg/ AB?

 

[Dlk79]

@SuperdadV8 If the Jag was re-registered on May 4, does that mean it would have had a set of new registration plates for Augsburg/ AB?

IMO, that was exactly the reason for the re-registering. CB wanted to quickly change his registration plates. The possible reasons for that are self explanatory if he feared the vehicle may have been spotted the day of MM's disappearance.

Again from JC's book when he spoke to Alexander Bischof.

Later when it came to the unusual move of re-registering the car into his name, Brueckner told him it was ‘due to an insurance issue’ and that he couldn’t keep it registered in Munich, even though it was still in Portugal. ‘It had a number plate from Munich and he said he couldn’t keep it any longer. His friend [was this Hubert?] could not keep it any longer at his address. He said he needed to get it registered in Augsburg, but because he had no address here he needed to get one in order to get insurance. And I said, “OK, I can give you my address for the number plate and the papers.” I figured it would mean he could keep his car to look for work. I was only trying to help him. I had no idea it meant he was driving around doing his business in my name.

ETA: The insurance excuse just seems bogus to me and I don't really see why changing the registration would help fix an insurance issue? Besides, CB has convictions before and after this time for driving without insurance, as well as several other driving convictions. So it seems suspect why he would call AB and be in such a rush to get this apparent insurance issue sorted.

 

[tedtink]

IMO, that was exactly the reason for the re-registering. CB wanted to quickly change his registration plates. The possible reasons for that are self explanatory if he feared the vehicle may have been spotted the day of MM's disappearance.

Again from JC's book when he spoke to Alexander Bischof.

Later when it came to the unusual move of re-registering the car into his name, Brueckner told him it was ‘due to an insurance issue’ and that he couldn’t keep it registered in Munich, even though it was still in Portugal. ‘It had a number plate from Munich and he said he couldn’t keep it any longer. His friend [was this Hubert?] could not keep it any longer at his address. He said he needed to get it registered in Augsburg, but because he had no address here he needed to get one in order to get insurance. And I said, “OK, I can give you my address for the number plate and the papers.” I figured it would mean he could keep his car to look for work. I was only trying to help him. I had no idea it meant he was driving around doing his business in my name.

Also, did I read that CB had been pulled over in Portugal as he had not bothered to register his car there? Or did I get that wrong?

 

[Dlk79]

Also, did I read that CB had been pulled over a couple of times in Portugal as he had not bothered to register his car there? Or did I get that wrong?

That's correct and he was convicted for "disobedience" for it in 2006. The rules are that if you have lived in Portugal for more than 6 months you then have to register your car there and use Portuguese plates. For whatever reasons, CB didn’t want to do that and even after the conviction, he continued to drive the car on German plates in 2007.

From the sounds of it, the Jag was originally registered under some other "friend" in Munich and then he changed it to AB in Augsburg when he wanted to switch the plates. So even though it was CB's car the whole time, it appears he didn’t want it directly linked to him. Hence why he was probably reluctant to register it in Portugal.