Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect #29

[RichardKimble]

It appears though that this is a moral / ethical problem and not a legal one you are having with this case.
For one, FF has not said a word about this / CB the same. This means that it was all done legally by the book and there is nothing to condemn here apart from raising some ethical issues.

CB did complain about it being a scandal last year.
In it he says.
In his letter to German media, he attacked investigators and said they "should resign" as they were "persecuting an innocent person".
Caution it is the Sun.

'UNBELIEVABLE'
Madeleine McCann suspect Christian B brands cop probe a ‘scandal’ as he speaks for 1st time since being named as suspect

Maddie McCann suspect slams police probe as he speaks for first time

 

[C.greek]

CB did complain about it being a scandal last year.
In it he says.
In his letter to German media, he attacked investigators and said they "should resign" as they were "persecuting an innocent person".
Caution it is the Sun.

'UNBELIEVABLE'
Madeleine McCann suspect Christian B brands cop probe a ‘scandal’ as he speaks for 1st time since being named as suspect

Maddie McCann suspect slams police probe as he speaks for first time

Of course I meant officially, as in suing them and not the moaning complaints we are used to by now.

 

[RichardKimble]

Of course I meant officially, as in suing them and not the moaning complaints we are used to by now.

Michael Barrymore went that route, not entirely successful.

 

[Anxala]

My issue is a legal/constitutional one.

For example, the principles of natural justice. In general I don't believe the state should be allowed to convict you in the court of public opinion, without you having notice of the case and the opportunity to answer it.

Many posters seem happy with it in the present case, because CB is an evil person. But what if something like this was done against someone who was actually innocent?

Especially I feel HCWs statement highlighted by @Anxala is unconstitutional, smearing a citizen with secret evidence.

You'd think CB guilty if you knew what HCW knew, yet somehow such evidence also does not prove guilt.

That is an obvious breach of natural justice in my opinion - but having received judicial permission to go public for the appeal, there appears to be little judicial oversight over what HCW has gone on to say in numerous interviews.

So we end up having to hope the prosecutors are just taking their time.

Absolutely to all that. And the bottom line is, CB would not be experiencing the fallout he's receiving had HCW not come out in June 2020 with his accusation against CB. For anyone to suggest that CB's latest complaints are solely to do with the Sat1 doc is missing the very crucial point that he would not have been the subject of this or any other doc or the resulting (best part of the) last 2 years of media speculation had HCW not put this claim in the public domain.

 

[RichardKimble]

Absolutely to all that. And the bottom line is, CB would not be experiencing the fallout he's receiving had HCW not come out in June 2020 with his accusation against CB. For anyone to suggest that CB's latest complaints are solely to do with the Sat1 doc is missing the very crucial point that he would not have been the subject of this or any other doc or the resulting (best part of the) last 2 years of media speculation had HCW not put this claim in the public domain.

There must be other ways to try and elicit info from the public with out declaring their suspect killed the girl , maybe that was the only way they could see a way forward .

 

[C.greek]

Absolutely to all that. And the bottom line is, CB would not be experiencing the fallout he's receiving had HCW not come out in June 2020 with his accusation against CB. For anyone to suggest that CB's latest complaints are solely to do with the Sat1 doc is missing the very crucial point that he would not have been the subject of this or any other doc or the resulting (best part of the) last 2 years of media speculation had HCW not put this claim in the public domain.

True but I personally have no problem with that given his crimes against the vulnerable. (For which he has been sentenced)

 

[frank-cole]

True but I personally have no problem with that given his crimes against the vulnerable. (For which he has been sentenced)

Completely agree. Child molesters never have an easy life in prison. I doubt the documentaries would have changed his prison life too much. He would have already been at the very bottom of the prisoner hierarchy. It all reads like a manipulative psychopath having a tantrum. He sent letters to German tabloids after he got convicted for Diane’s horrific assault. They didn’t run those stories, but as we’ve seen, Madeleine McCann stories sell, which is why they’re running these stories. He has a history of whinging & trying to dupe the media into following his nonsense. Ultimately the prison found nothing to take further. IMO if CB wasn’t the sole prime suspect in the MM case, he’d be seen as somebody who deserves the hell he lives in & that he’ll forever be a danger to society. There seems to be a fair amount of compassion for him (on twitter). IMO that’s solely because he is a perceived obstacle between them & their crusade against the McCann’s. He’s had a very lenient cluster of sentences & one would hope that any legal system would recognise the pattern of offending & continued risk to the public. But if they go case by case he’ll always have the potential to be free to commit other serious crimes, as he always has done.

 

[Anxala]

There must be other ways to try and elicit info from the public with out declaring their suspect killed the girl , maybe that was the only way they could see a way forward .

Police forces have access to all manner of international (re)sources that enable them to build a credible case against a suspect without ever naming that suspect. I'm not aware of any other case where a suspect has been publicly named in advance of an official charge, let alone one related to such a high profile case. Let alone one that to date is still showing no signs of advancement?

Are there other comparable cases, does anyone know?

I wonder how much the fact he was already (safe) in prison serving a sentence impacted upon their decision to go public? ie. did they see his incarceration as an opportunity to treat him as fair game, a bad apple, someone unworthy of the normal and accepted rule of law? Would they have done the same if he were a free citizen? I can't see it somehow.

 

[C.greek]

Police forces have access to all manner of international (re)sources that enable them to build a credible case against a suspect without ever naming that suspect. I'm not aware of any other case where a suspect has been publicly named in advance of an official charge, let alone one related to such a high profile case. Let alone one that to date is still showing no signs of advancement?

Are there other comparable cases, does anyone know?

I wonder how much the fact he was already (safe) in prison serving a sentence impacted upon their decision to go public? ie. did they see his incarceration as an opportunity to treat him as fair game, a bad apple, someone unworthy of the normal and accepted rule of law? Would they have done the same if he were a free citizen? I can't see it somehow.

There are quite a few cases but they mostly relate to fugitives.
For this case though, there is no way a judge would give their okay to go public (bar the name) because CB would be considered a 'bad apple' . We are missing the evidence and the reasoning, which must have been compelling.

And we shouldn't forget that the name was leaked from a Portuguese source. The BKA have NOT publicly named him. They have profiled him but not named him.

 

[Davieson]

That's right. The media has done all the running in outing CB and much of what we have been told about him has come from media stories.

 

[mrjitty]

That's right. The media has done all the running in outing CB and much of what we have been told about him has come from media stories.

While that is true, it was HCW who said CB did the murder based on secret evidence, and gave sufficient details to identify the suspect. Indeed there would be no point to the public appeal if there were no way to tell who he was talking about.

Permission to make the appeal had judicial oversight, but what is curious to me, is that there is no oversight at all to what comes afterwards, including presumably HCW's comment about "if you knew what I knew"

which is why i don't like this - especially I think it will go down as a fiasco if HCW's crew never charges.

 

[mrjitty]

Police forces have access to all manner of international (re)sources that enable them to build a credible case against a suspect without ever naming that suspect. I'm not aware of any other case where a suspect has been publicly named in advance of an official charge, let alone one related to such a high profile case. Let alone one that to date is still showing no signs of advancement?

Are there other comparable cases, does anyone know?

I wonder how much the fact he was already (safe) in prison serving a sentence impacted upon their decision to go public? ie. did they see his incarceration as an opportunity to treat him as fair game, a bad apple, someone unworthy of the normal and accepted rule of law? Would they have done the same if he were a free citizen? I can't see it somehow.

Really the only thing I can think of is somehow they have a very strong case against him, but aren't charging because peculiar reasons. So not so much that he is a bad apple (wouldn't be constitutional), but just that they do in fact have the goods on him but there is some strangeness. e.g. had he absconded, then you can understand it - so maybe it's something like that.

Even then, i find it to be very odd.

 

[Davieson]

An alternative is that they don't have the goods on him at all , other than some circumstantial evidence that persuaded them that he was their man. Perhaps this evidence is simply not strong enough to proceed to prosecution but they are reluctant to admit such at present.

 

[misty48]

IMO BKA are running down the clock until 3/5/22 when the Statute of Limitations for murder expires in Portugal. I think that if CB is charged before then he could appeal to have his case tried in Portugal where he would receive a lesser sentence (8-16yrs) than in Germany (15yrs+ before parole considered). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
IMO BKA want to allow absolutely no opportunities for any legal or political interference from Portugal before they move forward to the next phase of their investigation.

 

[Trivento]

IMO BKA are running down the clock until 3/5/22 when the Statute of Limitations for murder expires in Portugal. I think that if CB is charged before then he could appeal to have his case tried in Portugal where he would receive a lesser sentence (8-16yrs) than in Germany (15yrs+ before parole considered). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
IMO BKA want to allow absolutely no opportunities for any legal or political interference from Portugal before they move forward to the next phase of their investigation.

Sounds plausible...imo (although I have no legal expertise..! )..perhaps they'd want to add a buffer period after the 3rd also in case of scenario that the tragedy of a murder was not straight away on the 3rd...and a later date is somehow identified...or has been ?

 

[misty48]

In the meantime, here's GA defaming his very own PJ, as well as BKA & SY, whilst telling Portuguese citizens the case could have been solved years ago if a reconstitution had been carried out.
Ingleses fecham 'Caso Maddie', mas inspetores Gonçalo Amaral e Moita Flores dizem ter a solução para o enigma

 

[RichardKimble]

IMO BKA are running down the clock until 3/5/22 when the Statute of Limitations for murder expires in Portugal. I think that if CB is charged before then he could appeal to have his case tried in Portugal where he would receive a lesser sentence (8-16yrs) than in Germany (15yrs+ before parole considered). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this.
IMO BKA want to allow absolutely no opportunities for any legal or political interference from Portugal before they move forward to the next phase of their investigation.

Given its not been determined what crime actually took place, when does the limitations actually start ?

 

[tedtink]

Given its not been determined what crime actually took place, when does the limitations actually start ?

When the case was opened. As in all cases. That's the point of an investigation, to establish what took place

 

[Davieson]

Given its not been determined what crime actually took place, when does the limitations actually start ?

Logically countdown ought to start from the day of the crime. Finish date would depend on crime committed.
Does Germany differentiate between murder & manslaughter ?

 

[RichardKimble]

Logically countdown ought to start from the day of the crime. Finish date would depend on crime committed.
Does Germany differentiate between murder & manslaughter ?

Good question .