Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #33

[Lyall0814]

HCW would have been well chuffed if any witnesses responded to his appeal thirteen years later, Mex. Two weeks is nothing.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

She crossed that car park every day at least 4 times going to and from the kid's club. She never used the alleyway, although her father said the three children ran away down there once 'between Monday and Wednesday'. She turned right after leaving 5A far more times than she turned left during those days I would have thought.

I get that. In an earlier thread we discussed the possibilities. Or it may have been somewhere else, I can’t remember.

Nevertheless, MM was around the OC during her holidays. MM’s scent on the blanket and towel would almost certainly have had her parents scent on them too. The cross contamination of scent is highly possible - it’s not an exact science.

So where did her parents search for MM after 10:00pm and before the GNR dogs arrived? Who else went into 5A and did they touch the blanket and/or towel looking for MM and if so where did they search?

It’s only my opinion but given all the potential scents signals how can there be any certainty that the dogs followed MM’s last scent? If she was abducted from 5A, it’s very likely she was carried… I’m no expert but I’m sure physical contact with the floor where she walked would leave a stronger scent than if she were carried.

I’m not reading anything into where the GNR dogs went but that’s just me.

 

[Mex]

HCW would have been well chuffed if any witnesses responded to his appeal thirteen years later, Mex. Two weeks is nothing.

I don't see it that way. Two weeks could be life or death for a missing child. From the 4th May MM's disappearance was headline news worldwide. PS heard of it at the airport that morning and MS who remained in luz for a few days was also aware of it at the time.
From the PJ files
06 Processo 06 pages 1606 to 1610
He only became aware of the disappearance of the child the next morning, through his daughter, L*****, in Ireland who had sent him a message or called him regarding what had happened. At this point he thought that MADELEINE could have been the child he saw with the individual.
6-Processos, Volume VI, pgs. 1615 to1624
He only found out about the disappearance of the child the next morning through someone he knew, the son of the builder of Estrela da Luz, who was also at the airport. The witness went to the airport given that, as planned, he intended to return to Ireland on that day
— At that time he did not associate the said individual with the disappearance, only after thinking on the subject and the coincidence of the time did he infer that MADELEINE could have been the child carried by the individual that he had seen.

P.J. POLICE FILES: MARTIN SMITH & FAMILY STATEMENTS

 

[Denis R Tandib]

This is why i don't buy into the 'MO' idea, and the claim by HCW that a conviction in the HB case helps with the MM case.

The expert burglar theory fits better - somehow it was opportunistic or maybe a burglary gone wrong. After all, he didn't kill any of his other victims as far as we know - so why now?

He also committed the DM and, if he did it, the HB offences in their homes, both seem to have been well planned - HB thinks he had broken into her apartment before the rape.

It’s a possibility of course but I think the lack of sightings and the planning in his prior offences make the burglary gone wrong less likely than a planned abduction… if it was CB!

 

[Mex]

I get that. In an earlier thread we discussed the possibilities. Or it may have been somewhere else, I can’t remember.

Nevertheless, MM was around the OC during her holidays. MM’s scent on the blanket and towel would almost certainly have had her parents scent on them too. The cross contamination of scent is highly possible - it’s not an exact science.

So where did her parents search for MM after 10:00pm and before the GNR dogs arrived? Who else went into 5A and did they touch the blanket and/or towel looking for MM and if so where did they search?

It’s only my opinion but given all the potential scents signals how can there be any certainty that the dogs followed MM’s last scent? If she was abducted from 5A, it’s very likely she was carried… I’m no expert but I’m sure physical contact with the floor where she walked would leave a stronger scent than if she were carried.

I’m not reading anything into where the GNR dogs went but that’s just me.

In the files it is intimated that the handlers were despondent about the dogs' being able to track as time had passed. But the nature of some of the terrain (narrow alleyways and high walls) might well have hampered the dispersal of air borne scent which allowed the dogs to follow.

The dogs would have followed the strongest scent. It is possible that could have been the kidnapper's had s/he touched the blanket. Also in at least one of the attacks on children taking place on children in their beds in the Algarve at the time, a strong body scent was described.

 

[gregjrichards]

“Kate and Gerry McCann say their daughter Madeleine is “still very much missed” as they mark the 16th anniversary of her disappearance.

In a post on the ‘Official Find Madeleine Campaign’ Facebook page, the couple wrote: “Still missing …. still very much missed.”

Kate and Gerry, of Rothley, Leics, added: “It is hard to find the words to convey how we feel.” They then posted a poem by Clare Polland, titled ‘The Contradiction’, saying it “resonates strongly with us”. The heartwrenching poem reads: "You are not here, I’m not myself, but still I talk to you like this." And adds: "I cannot hold you, yet I do: please let me hold you in my head and where you are now, hold me too."

Madeleine McCann's parents say they 'await a breakthrough' in new statement

It is hard to believe today is the 16th anniversary of Madeleine’s disappearance. My thoughts and prayers are with Madeleine and her loved ones.

 

[Consider Dudley]

The Mirror is (inaccurately?) reporting that the rape charge against Bruckner has been dropped.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

The dogs would have followed the strongest scent.

Right, so if the dogs did pick up on MM’s scent ( not KM or GM) would the scent from two days prior where, for example, she walked along a wall trailing her hand along it as she walked be stronger than if she were carried by an abducted in a different direction only six hours earlier? We can’t possibly know so we can’t possibly rely on the GNR dogs as proof of anything - IMO.

 

[Hexe]

Regarding the GNR dogs. Let’s remember that MM had been at the OC all week. How could any dog detect the most recent scent above all the others MM had left while on holiday.

That's what these dogs are trained for.

If the dogs had tracked her scent to a different location then it may have been useful but given they tracked it to the location she was staying at, how can it be useful?

I do not think Maddie was visiting this particular parking lot with her parents or with nannies from the creche.

 

[Mex]

Right, so if the dogs did pick up on MM’s scent ( not KM or GM) would the scent from two days prior where, for example, she walked along a wall trailing her hand along it as she walked be stronger than if she were carried by an abducted in a different direction only six hours earlier? We can’t possibly know so we can’t possibly rely on the GNR dogs as proof of anything - IMO.

It does not matter what dogs do. It is proof of nothing! Their reactions are indicator and intelligence to be woven into the overall minutiae of the rest of the information under investigation. Either to be ruled in as relevant or to be ruled out.

The two GNR handlers took care not to prejudice their findings by starting off in the apartment. They walked past it independently and both dogs reacted. That tells me they were reacting to whatever the scent was they had been given. Others can make up their own minds about that.

 

[Hexe]

She crossed that car park every day at least 4 times going to and from the kid's club. She never used the alleyway, although her father said the three children ran away down there once 'between Monday and Wednesday'. She turned right after leaving 5A far more times than she turned left during those days I would have thought.

Gerry's statement about Maddie's daily route to the creche:

Again she went on foot, leaving the secondary reception she turned right, went down the street passing the supermarket, turning left passing the main reception.

She turned left past the supermarket. The parking lot both dogs led their handlers to is situated before supermarket, vis a vis the secondary reception and it is a cul de sac without any further passage.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

It does not matter what dogs do. It is proof of nothing! Their reactions are indicator and intelligence to be woven into the overall minutiae of the rest of the information under investigation. Either to be ruled in as relevant or to be ruled out.

The two GNR handlers took care not to prejudice their findings by starting off in the apartment. They walked past it independently and both dogs reacted. That tells me they were reacting to whatever the scent was they had been given. Others can make up their own minds about that.

Okay, proof was perhaps a poor choice of words. I don’t think the GNR dogs are an ‘indicator’ of much either. They could just as easily been indicating a position where GM knelt on the floor inconsolable as anything to do with the direction MM left 5A. No issue if you have a different view, it’s up to you what you believe and we’ll probably never be able to confirm anything anyway.

 

[Janosch]

Does this mean we can rule out Smithman as the abductor?

I consider the Smiths more reliable than the dogs.

 

[Janosch]

Okay, proof was perhaps a poor choice of words. I don’t think the GNR dogs are an ‘indicator’ of much either. They could just as easily been indicating a position where GM knelt on the floor inconsolable as anything to do with the direction MM left 5A. No issue if you have a different view, it’s up to you what you believe and we’ll probably never be able to confirm anything anyway.

I had read that the dogs went to apartment 5J? I do not remember.
If so, this is in the first floor. But the McCanns went to the first floor, almost sure, to visit the Paynes.

 

[RichardKimble]

The Mirror is (inaccurately?) reporting that the rape charge against Bruckner has been dropped.

Well technically they have, which is what the lower court ruled on , a technicality.
The arrest warrant was withdrawn.

The court said that, as a result of its decision, it has lifted an arrest warrant it issued for Bruckner in November.

 

[mrjitty]

We are never going to get further on this case until the prosecutor actually charges something.

I am especially dubious of stuff supposedly leaked to the various journos based on experience in other cases. Frequently that stuff turns out not to be true, or inaccurate.

 

[G-Unit]

That's what these dogs are trained for.



I do not think Maddie was visiting this particular parking lot with her parents or with nannies from the creche.

She crossed that car park every day as it led to a shortcut through the site to the main reception where the kid's club was.

 

[Janosch]

A question: have you discussed the possibility that CB used the 680 phone and CP the 683 phone? Or vice versa?

 

[RichardKimble]

A question: have you discussed the possibility that CB used the 680 phone and CP the 683 phone? Or vice versa?

Who is CP ?

 

[RichardKimble]

We are never going to get further on this case until the prosecutor actually charges something.

I am especially dubious of stuff supposedly leaked to the various journos based on experience in other cases. Frequently that stuff turns out not to be true, or inaccurate.

Something invariably turns up in March, the funding , May because thats when the disappearance occurred, later on in the year confirmation OG had their grant, recently jurisdiction over charges, its been like that since 2013 really, lots of talk, a couple of digs along the way, still no sign of it ending.