Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect, #35

[Lyall0814]

Agree & disagree (if that makes sense). I agree that the person responsible will be the only person who knows everything that happened.
But I disagree that the BKA don’t know the truth. They’ve uncovered evidence that the man who confessed to the crime comitted the crime.

IMO they know he’s the killer & the BKA have uncovered that’s the truth. But it’s possible that they may never have all the facts. The unsettling & devastating likelihood is that what happened is exactly what he bragged about in his Skype chat. Which is that he abducted, assaulted & killed a female toddler.

IMO they’ll certainly get a conviction but it may well be without any forensic evidence

That wouldn't end discussion though, there's a bunch of us who wouldn't agree with the verdict. Imo if they had strong evidence re: Madeleine they'd have charged him already. So they may eventually convict him but the evidence will be weak, as it is in many other convictions in cases being discussed on WS. There's folks still discussing and writing books about the Lindbergh case, in 1932. Discussion about this case will continue. Questions will continue to be asked.

 

[Mex]

Bolded bit, but do they, one of questions reportedly posed to the three arguidos in 2014 was did you kill Madeleine, does one suppose this was just a random question thrown out there or did OG have reason to use this line of questioning, now move it on to the here and now how is it certain the BKA have the one if OG didnt.

Because a lot of water has passed under the bridge since 2014 and a person who fitted the profile was ruled out of the investigation.

That in itself was progress leaving room to proceed with other inquiries.

 

[Pixie Child]

Imagine you are in the HCW/BKA team ... What do you try to investigate now to reach the truth in MM's case?

I would prosecute every client he had to see if they have any info to proffer.

They need to search every property & piece of land that he frequented.

UK police were unable to get satellite imagery from NRO. It’s possible that BKA will have more luck tracing his vehicle movements albeit we may never hear about it.

 

[Mex]

I don't think anyone knows what the truth is, except whoever took MM.
The police/prosecutors have their version of what they believe is the truth, others have their own version.

I do wonder if we'll ever get the real story, whatever the outcome of a trial.

No-one's opinion alone is of any value in proving a crime. The evidence does that if the judges' opinion decides the evidence is strong enough to do that.

 

[frank-cole]

That wouldn't end discussion though, there's a bunch of us who wouldn't agree with the verdict. Imo if they had strong evidence re: Madeleine they'd have charged him already. So they may eventually convict him but the evidence will be weak, as it is in many other convictions in cases being discussed on WS. There's folks still discussing and writing books about the Lindbergh case, in 1932. Discussion about this case will continue. Questions will continue to be asked.

Inevitably, I think, there will be a reluctance to accept a guilty verdict & that’ll be regardless of what detail & how incriminating the evidence is. There will certainly be people who remain attached to their theory. Those people will almost certainly be people who subscribe to the sort of theory GA profited from. The number of people who fail accept a guilty verdict will be dependent on the strength of the evidence & the behaviours of their peers. The numbers will deminish relative to how strong the evidence is or how strong they perceive it to be. ‘Old habits die hard’ - I think that’ll apply to a certain demographic of people & regardless of the evidence they’ll refuse to accept it.

Just my opinion on how I see this progressing should there be a guilty verdict. I expect a short rise in reluctance followed by a gradual decline & then eventually a much smaller section of people subscribing to the sort of thing Amaral wrote about.

 

[sleuth-d-]

No-one's opinion alone is of any value in proving a crime. The evidence does that if the judges' opinion decides the evidence is strong enough to do that.

i see it logically,
as we are only at the suspect stage - the evidence isn't strong enough for anything more. atm.
if the evidence was strong enough - in the opinion of the prosecutors/judges - we would be at arrest/charge/trial right now.

equally, no prosecutor will have the luxury to continue to look for the 'full story' and 'every fact' just out of their individual professional standards or curiosity. they may want to in an ideal world. but realistically, and financially, their job is to bring provable cases to trial. isn't it just getting to the shortest line to 'provability''?
and they will always have a pile of other cases to get onto. imo.

separate questions re: delay.
if any suspect is found guilty of murdering MM what will the sentence be - surely no need to wait until suspect's current sentence runs its course?
also, why delay when there are parents that want closure?

 

[onemoremiletogo]

I would prosecute every client he had to see if they have any info to proffer.

They need to search every piece of land that he frequented.

UK police were unable to get satellite imagery from NRO. It’s possible that BKA will have more luck tracing his vehicle movements albeit we may never hear about it.

Every piece of land...is this really feasible, sustainable?! Even if only in Algarve, even if only in that area (Lagos, Barão de São João, PdL, Messines, Silves) ...even if it was just the wells.
Even if they get closer, will they really be able to find forensics?!

IMO, the photos BKA should have and maybe try to look deeper into CB's "expressions":
- make corpse disappear quickly
- fillet forensic
- the daisy "guilty", "not guilty"

 

[Anxala]

Imagine you are in the HCW/BKA team ... What do you try to investigate now to reach the truth in MM's case?

They can't magic up evidence out of nowhere so I guess they'll just have to keep on the dogged path they've exhaustively trodden to date. Keep on going through all the CB evidence they have, keep on searching for/hoping new witnesses will come forward, keep on hoping that they finally come upon the elusive bit of the puzzle they seem to need in order to confidently charge CB.

Keep on keeping on, essentially.

 

[Consider Dudley]

That wouldn't end discussion though, there's a bunch of us who wouldn't agree with the verdict. Imo if they had strong evidence re: Madeleine they'd have charged him already. So they may eventually convict him but the evidence will be weak, as it is in many other convictions in cases being discussed on WS. There's folks still discussing and writing books about the Lindbergh case, in 1932. Discussion about this case will continue. Questions will continue to be asked.

Upon what basis have you already (apparently) ruled out CB?

 

[Davieson]

Inevitably, I think, there will be a reluctance to accept a guilty verdict & that’ll be regardless of what detail & how incriminating the evidence is. There will certainly be people who remain attached to their theory. Those people will almost certainly be people who subscribe to the sort of theory GA profited from. The number of people who fail accept a guilty verdict will be dependent on the strength of the evidence & the behaviours of their peers. The numbers will deminish relative to how strong the evidence is or how strong they perceive it to be. ‘Old habits die hard’ - I think that’ll apply to a certain demographic of people & regardless of the evidence they’ll refuse to accept it.

Just my opinion on how I see this progressing should there be a guilty verdict. I expect a short rise in reluctance followed by a gradual decline & then eventually a much smaller section of people subscribing to the sort of thing Amaral wrote about.

I suspect there will also be reluctance for some to accept a not guilt verdict, should such a thing occur.

We have seen similar with the ECHR verdict.

Not that anyone's opinion ultimately counts for anything.

 

[Davieson]

They can't magic up evidence out of nowhere so I guess they'll just have to keep on the dogged path they've exhaustively trodden to date. Keep on going through all the CB evidence they have, keep on searching for/hoping new witnesses will come forward, keep on keeping on in the hope that they finally come upon the elusive bit of the puzzle they seem to need in order to confidently charge CB.

I'm quite sure they can if desperate enough

 

[Mex]

That wouldn't end discussion though, there's a bunch of us who wouldn't agree with the verdict. Imo if they had strong evidence re: Madeleine they'd have charged him already. So they may eventually convict him but the evidence will be weak, as it is in many other convictions in cases being discussed on WS. There's folks still discussing and writing books about the Lindbergh case, in 1932. Discussion about this case will continue. Questions will continue to be asked.

I agree there are those who will never be satisfied with a judgement which doesn’t fit with their own prejudices.
But as far as the Lindberg baby case goes, times have changed particularly as far as forensic science is concerned. So there is less scope for mystery.

I think you are underestimating the strength of circumstantial evidence in securing in securing a conviction in a non body murder case. It isn't second class evidence. It is obviously harder for investigators if there is no forensic evidence but it has to be every bit as good to secure a conviction.

There are two reasons for the search for a body (causing delay). The first is that the body is evidence and they have been gifted time in hand to keep looking.

The second reason is to give the family of the deceased some knowledge of events and the peace of a proper burial. So I can see why there is no rush to press charges and in effect end the investigation if there is no need. My opinion

 

[C.greek]

They can't magic up evidence out of nowhere so I guess they'll just have to keep on the dogged path they've exhaustively trodden to date. Keep on going through all the CB evidence they have, keep on searching for/hoping new witnesses will come forward, keep on keeping on in the hope that they finally come upon the elusive bit of the puzzle they seem to need in order to confidently charge CB.

Even though I overall agree, I don't think they have exhausted every angle... there are still people appearing that have provided intelligence about CB's habits and character. There are still places he frequented in Portugal that the Portuguese police did not search (since he was never in their radar), they must still be more Intel from the box factory and we have no idea what they found in his allotment. I am sure we are pretty much in the dark as regards all the possible avenues and paths of investigation.

 

[JB1510]

There could be "others", that's for sure.

Hard to think, CB just did all that raping, torturing and videotaping for his own exclusive pleasure.

I'm convinced, that he tried to make money out of it. Without any traces of dislike of what he was doing, of course!

I think that is possibly the case also , in sicko world it appears that
if you can’t provide new footage you get kicked off or they limit your access .I‘m sure there are plenty of subscribers unwilling to
actually commit offences against children or don’t have access (apologies for the dark theme). If there is a market for those sickos i
can see CB being the type to make money for the demand.

I seem to remember CB in one of his videos taking off his mask off which seems rather bizarre but if it’s something he has done on a few occasions on the dark web is he known for that amongst users of csa .Also a clown mask on another video iirc

 

[RichardKimble]

Inevitably, I think, there will be a reluctance to accept a guilty verdict & that’ll be regardless of what detail & how incriminating the evidence is. There will certainly be people who remain attached to their theory. Those people will almost certainly be people who subscribe to the sort of theory GA profited from. The number of people who fail accept a guilty verdict will be dependent on the strength of the evidence & the behaviours of their peers. The numbers will deminish relative to how strong the evidence is or how strong they perceive it to be. ‘Old habits die hard’ - I think that’ll apply to a certain demographic of people & regardless of the evidence they’ll refuse to accept it.

Just my opinion on how I see this progressing should there be a guilty verdict. I expect a short rise in reluctance followed by a gradual decline & then eventually a much smaller section of people subscribing to the sort of thing Amaral wrote about.

They seems to be for some reason a thought process that guarantees a guilty verdict on an innocent man(in regards the Madeleine case) based on stories from various outlets and alleged experts who have studied the man's past crimes ,musings on his alleged writings without him even had the benefit of an arrest, a trial nor a conviction.Is that what the WS site is about, guilty until proven otherwise, If it's him then it's him but let's have the evidence first.

He might have been in Luz, he might have used a phone, he might have visited the reservoir soon after the 3/05/2007 lots of mights but it seems the actual was or did is out of reach.All jmo.

 

[Anxala]

I'm quite sure they can if desperate enough

It wouldn't make sense for them to do that. Professional reputations on an international stage? They have to put their evidence before a stringent judge/panel of judges and when/if they do that, it's going to scrutinised to the enth degree. On an international stage.

It would absolutely destroy their credibility were they to be found to have used 'tailored' evidence to try and bring their case home.

 

[Anxala]

Even though I overall agree, I don't think they have exhausted every angle... there are still people appearing that have provided intelligence about CB's habits and character. There are still places he frequented in Portugal that the Portuguese police did not search (since he was never in their radar), they must still be more Intel from the box factory and we have no idea what they found in his allotment. I am sure we are pretty much in the dark as regards all the possible avenues and paths of investigation.

I didn't say they'd exhausted every angle, more that it's been, from what we've 'seen', an exhausting investigation from their perspective.

And will continue to be until/unless they get the breakthrough they need in order to confidently take this case before a judge.

 

[mrjitty]

They need to search every property & piece of land that he frequented.

RSBM

BKA don't have this power, especially not in other countries, and for good reason. Search warrants require probable cause.

 

[Lyall0814]

I agree there are those who will never be satisfied with a judgement which doesn’t fit with their own prejudices.
But as far as the Lindberg baby case goes, times have changed particularly as far as forensic science is concerned. So there is less scope for mystery.

I think you are underestimating the strength of circumstantial evidence in securing in securing a conviction in a non body murder case. It isn't second class evidence. It is obviously harder for investigators if there is no forensic evidence but it has to be every bit as good to secure a conviction.

There are two reasons for the search for a body (causing delay). The first is that the body is evidence and they have been gifted time in hand to keep looking.

The second reason is to give the family of the deceased some knowledge of events and the peace of a proper burial. So I can see why there is no rush to press charges and in effect end the investigation if there is no need. My opinion

Well imo we've only seen second class evidence so far. If there is eventually a trial let's hope we're all still around then. Some of us are getting old!

 

[mrjitty]

Imagine you are in the HCW/BKA team ... What do you try to investigate now to reach the truth in MM's case?

I think the case will only be solved via a tip off or the body turns up.