Malaysia airlines 370 with 239 people on board, 8 March 2014 #25

[gregjrichards]

I just wanted to say a big thank you to all of you for continuing to post all your updates and information it has all been very interesting to read. I feel so sad that there are 239 families around the world desperately wanting to know what happened to their loved ones and facing a bleak first Christmas and new year without them.

 

[SouthAussie]

Don't know about elsewhere, but Facebook released the top topics talked about this year on Aussie FB. The dual tragedies of MH370 and MH17 were third on the list. I guess that while the tragedies sadly affect some people very deeply and personally, they have affected many of us as a nation.

(For the curious people, Robin Williams' death rated first on the list.)

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/25728206/tragedy-and-politics-top-facebook-topics/

 

[Bryan9]

In echoing gregjrichard's expression of gratitude, I'd like to additionally thank Websleuths, the forum moderators, and the members of this forum for providing a civilized, congenial, respectful, and considerate place to discuss this horrific tragedy. As I and doubtless others can affirm from personal experience elsewhere, it's unique.

 

[gregjrichards]

In echoing gregjrichard's expression of gratitude, I'd like to additionally thank Websleuths, the forum moderators, and the members of this forum for providing a civilized, congenial, respectful, and considerate place to discuss this horrific tragedy. As I and doubtless others can affirm from personal experience elsewhere, it's unique.

Thank you for you kind post I totally agree with everything in your post websleuths is a unique and special place.

New article with loads of detailed information about the current search efforts. The same photo of the search has been kindly posted already but the article may be of interest nonetheless.

"Lead search agency released an image on Thursday showing what they have recorded as they scour the Indian Ocean floor

The image was captured by the GO Phoenix vessel, which returned the search area on Tuesday to continue underwater operations

More than 6,000 square kilometres of ocean floor has been searched to date with no sign of the missing plane"


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ntinue-scour-priority-area.html#ixzz3Ld0YjLLZ

 

[Sophie Valentine]

According to the linked article (at the end) the families of the passengers have been asked to provide DNA samples.

Why?

And why didn't they collect these samples earlier in the investigation? It seems like it would be a routine request.

http://nworeport.me/2014/12/08/miss...jacked-by-russians-to-kazakhstan-author-says/

 

[Bryan9]

I'm encouraged by the ATSB's willingness to deliver on their promise to revise and alter the search strategy, rather than sticking to the original plan come what may. According to this report, new analyses of MH370's final spiral into the sea suggests that the aircraft may have traveled further from the 7th arc than previously predicted, so the search zone has been widened accordingly. According to ATSB chief Martin Dolan, it is possible that “the descent wasn’t in quite such a tight circle as we are assessing.” In addition, the search area has been extended further to the south, up to the maximum possible range of the aircraft under any and all assumptions.

@Sophie Valentine, according to this Powerpoint presentation from a U.S. university, air crash victim identification begins with medical and dental records, since these are commonly available and relatively inexpensive. DNA matching is used in situations where the remains cannot be identified by these means. The implications of this are very sad and I think help to explain why the decision to collect DNA samples at this point was not made explicit.

 

[HMSHood]

A new analysis of the turn to the south, which the ATSB believed to have occurred between 1822UTC and 1941UTC, shows that it likely occurred right around 1840UTC. Performed by three members of the Independent Group (IG), the analysis is in line with the ATSB's latest estimate. The timing of the turn argues for the plane winding up in the southernmost portion of the search area, where the seafloor search began in earnest. But what really interests me is the map the team produced. It suggests that the turn to the south was a deliberate action, which may have been intended to avoid detection by Indonesian radar at Banda (or at least to persuade the radar operators, if they indeed observed the plane, that it did not appear to be headed for Indonesian air space). I hate to say this, but I believe this scenario adds credibility to the pilot suicide theory.

Here's the previous estimate of the plane's trajectory, which showed it coming close enough to Banda Aceh to assure detection by Indonesian radar. The circle shows the estimated range of the radar:

View attachment 65157

Here's the new map...

View attachment 65156

Indonesia insists that its radar operators did not see MH370 that night, but an operator might well have ignored a blip that was obviously not headed for Indonesian territory. This is quite consistent with what is known about how radar operators interpret the data they are observing.

Looking at the map, looks like MH370 would of been detected on radar. I think someone in Indonesia would of seen something.

 

[Bryan9]

Looking at the map, looks like MH370 would of been detected on radar. I think someone in Indonesia would of seen something.

It's certainly reasonable to think so. The alternative interpretations, as I understand them, include at least the following:

(1) MH370 was indeed detected, but the Indonesians refuse to admit this out of a desire to conceal their radar capabilities;

(2) MH370 was indeed detected, but the radar operators had no idea at the time that the aircraft was no longer in the South China Sea and therefore ignored the blip, assuming that whatever the blip was, it was not headed toward Indonesian air space and did not appear to pose a threat, and the Indonesian authorities are not about to own up to this... especially after the flak the Malaysians got for failing to act on THEIR radar detection of MH370;

(3) MH370 was not detected because of some *advertiser censored*-up, such as the operators falling asleep, getting soused, failing to operate the equipment correctly, failing to perform needed repairs, or accidentally erasing the tape, and the Indonesians are unwilling to admit this;

or

(4) the northern Sumatra radar operation is focused on the Straits rather than the lightly traveled passage between Sumatra and the Andaman Islands, so the equipment was not focused along the path MH370 took.

Any others?

One of my favorite mottos is "never attribute to malevolence that which can be explained by incompetence."

 

[Bryan9]

Quick note: The Joint Agency Coordination Committee (JACC), which is running the MH370 search, says the search may be completed by next May. But JACC was "unable to clarify what would happen if the plane was not found."

To quote Luke Skywalker, I have a very bad feeling about this...

 

[ilovepierre]

Eventually, all the agencies involved will have to stop searching.
If these sea bed searches (or whatever it is that is being done at the moment) don't yield any results, then searching will stop.
There is really no point in wasting money and resources.
IMO, I don't even think the searches are in the right area.

I am just baffled that a 777 jet can just disappear without a trace...

 

[SnowAngels]

Has anyone seen this proposed scenario ? http://jeffwise.net/the-spoof-part-1-why-a-speculative-scenario/

Long read, but worth it! (it's in 6 parts)

 

[Bryan9]

Has anyone seen this proposed scenario ? http://jeffwise.net/the-spoof-part-1-why-a-speculative-scenario/...

The first part of the theory -- hijackers stowing away in the electronics bay and taking over the plane -- is quite credible; this is a known vulnerability of the 777. The second part -- broadcasting fake ("spoofed") satcomm signals in order to disguise the plane's true trajectory -- is ridiculous. It presupposes that the attackers had foreknowledge of analytical techniques that were fully developed only after MH370 took off!

It isn't necessary to posit some sort of Russian conspiracy to come up with a credible hijacking scenario. I've felt for some time that the evidence is consistent with a hijacking that involved depressurization and depowering of all comms, including satcomm, but that something went wrong as the plane headed NW out the Malacca Straits... a crewmember managed to regain control of the plane, restarted the satcomm, and attempted to turn the plane back to KL, but subsequently succumbed to hypoxia or injuries suffered during the hijacking.

 

[Roselvr]

The first part of the theory -- hijackers stowing away in the electronics bay and taking over the plane -- is quite credible; this is a known vulnerability of the 777. The second part -- broadcasting fake ("spoofed") satcomm signals in order to disguise the plane's true trajectory -- is ridiculous. It presupposes that the attackers had foreknowledge of analytical techniques that were fully developed only after MH370 took off!

It isn't necessary to posit some sort of Russian conspiracy to come up with a credible hijacking scenario. I've felt for some time that the evidence is consistent with a hijacking that involved depressurization and depowering of all comms, including satcomm, but that something went wrong as the plane headed NW out the Malacca Straits... a crewmember managed to regain control of the plane, restarted the satcomm, and attempted to turn the plane back to KL, but subsequently succumbed to hypoxia or injuries suffered during the hijacking.

I've always felt someone tried to hijack the plane; the pilot and/or copilot did everything they can to stop it; which includes trying to make a phone phone call with the cell phone. It really disgusted me the way Malaysia threw the pilots under the bus.

I still feel Kate saw the plane; I think their GPS helped narrow the route down; add to it the military vessel everyone on their boat saw in the water. I will be surprised if they do not find the plane.

 

[ilovepierre]

I go back and forth between a hijack situation and a technical malfunction.
Right now, I'm on the hijack side of the fence.

Also, I still feel it's near Maldives. I have had that feeling since the the early days of the incident.

 

[watcher9]

I have not discounted the accounts of the oil rigger worker seeing the fire in the sky and the locals on a Maldives island who saw the plane already flying very low. I believe there was a fire or small explosion that disabled the instruments and the pilots were going in and out of consciousness from the fumes. I think they were trying but unable to turn the plane back towards the airport, maybe trying to use hand controls to maneuver the plane. They were probably flying real low trying to get oxygen. Maybe just over the horizon from that island sighting, the plane probably went down. JMO

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...saw-low-flying-plane/articleshow/32251148.cms

 

[watcher9]

Breaking news awhile ago was that hackers from North Korea may be responsible for the cyber attack on Sony and the implications could be huge. More info is supposed to be released by the US government tomorrow.

We had discussions a long ago about North Korea and their test missiles possibly taking down MAH370 and also the possibilities of what could happen if someone were able to hack into the airline system and control the instruments on the plane. What if North Korea could hack into the plane?

 

[gregjrichards]

Breaking news awhile ago was that hackers from North Korea may be responsible for the cyber attack on Sony and the implications could be huge. More info is supposed to be released by the US government tomorrow.

We had discussions a long ago about North Korea and their test missiles possibly taking down MAH370 and also the possibilities of what could happen if someone were able to hack into the airline system and control the instruments on the plane. What if North Korea could hack into the plane?

I think if MH370 had been hit by a North Korean missile there would be a record of an explosion in the sky via intelligence. Hijacking is a very real possibility but North Korea is only one of a number of countries and organisations who would want to hijack this plane for hostages or cargo. My opinion is that the plane most likely is in bits in the sea somewhere amongst the remains of 239 innocent people. I'm losing hope we will ever find out what happened but trying to remain optimistic. I can't imagine families having Christmas next week with the seat of their missing loved ones empty and they don't know where they are and why.

 

[Roselvr]

Breaking news awhile ago was that hackers from North Korea may be responsible for the cyber attack on Sony and the implications could be huge. More info is supposed to be released by the US government tomorrow.

We had discussions a long ago about North Korea and their test missiles possibly taking down MAH370 and also the possibilities of what could happen if someone were able to hack into the airline system and control the instruments on the plane. What if North Korea could hack into the plane?

I do not think the plane was shot down because there have been no remains found. Look at MH17 & how far apart all of the wreckage is.

Map of a Tragedy: How MH17 Came Apart Over Ukraine

 

[watcher9]

I guess I didn't word my post too well. I was so shocked that CNN would actually come out and name North Korea as the country the hackers were working under. When they talked about the possibility that the hackers could have the capability of hacking into almost anything, I (me) immediately thought that maybe they (North Korea) could have hacked into the airplane instruments and I went to posting. I guess I confused the issue by bringing up the old theories of North Korea's missiles because I did not mean that I thought they shut the plane down, but rather that in the discussions we were having way back then, North Korea was talked about as being a possible reason the plane went down.

 

[time]

I go back and forth between a hijack situation and a technical malfunction.
Right now, I'm on the hijack side of the fence.

Also, I still feel it's near Maldives. I have had that feeling since the the early days of the incident.

Thanks, I thought I was the only one!