Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #24

[Hatfield]

From that link, we have this....

"Exner said the informal group of experts has volunteered to work with the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau. But, while the government agencies have been polite, they have been reticent to release additional information that could further help the independent group, he said."

Why in the world at this late stage is any of the powers-to-be reluctant to provide the additional information?

I can only assume that "they" want to be the heroes in this and are possessive of the data because they want to be the ones to find the plane. I cry fowl and am very upset to still hear that the powers to be are not forthcoming.

It is no wonder the plane has not been found when you have authorities and agencies unwilling to let others help find the plane. Even when proven that they did not find it, they still are reluctant to allow others the data they need to better help.

It screams out to me that someone wants to be a hero instead of just allowing others to find the darn thing and give the families some peace. So upsetting

 

[Tiepos]

From that link, we have this....

"Exner said the informal group of experts has volunteered to work with the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau. But, while the government agencies have been polite, they have been reticent to release additional information that could further help the independent group, he said."

Why in the world at this late stage is any of the powers-to-be reluctant to provide the additional information?

I can only assume that "they" want to be the heroes in this and are possessive of the data because they want to be the ones to find the plane. I cry fowl and am very upset to still hear that the powers to be are not forthcoming.

It is no wonder the plane has not been found when you have authorities and agencies unwilling to let others help find the plane. Even when proven that they did not find it, they still are reluctant to allow others the data they need to better help.

It screams out to me that someone wants to be a hero instead of just allowing others to find the darn thing and give the families some peace. So upsetting

I don’t think it’s really that unusual that they won’t give up potentially sensitive information. Maybe they know something about this group of “volunteers” that we don’t know, or maybe they don’t know anything about them, and are reluctant to give up information to an unknown entity that might compromise the security of any number of countries based on radar or other data.

 

[Hatfield]

My opinions only, no facts here:

There is something wrong with these latest stories. The error margin of the Inmarsat data is said to be "100 miles". And remember, even modest errors in assumptions of the plane's velocity could greatly increase the known inaccuracy. I'll be optimistic and say that the velocity estimates are spot-on and that the arc-parallel error is 100 miles and the arc-normal error is 50 miles. That is 5000 square miles to look in. Why is an area of this huge size now being described with euphemisms such as "the "crash hotspot" or the area of "highest probability?

These latest reports are like another carrot on the stick for us to follow. The stories subtly hint at a bullseye target, when the facts point to a daunting search area.

I recognize that the powers-that-be may know exactly where it crashed. But since that information has not been shared with us, I am just going with the Inmarsat model in this post.

Re BBM
Im coming to the conclusion like my last post indicated that "they" want to be the heroes and they still think they know exactly where it is and they want to be the ones to announce they found the plane.

Its the only thing that makes sense because of
-how possessive they are of their data
-not willing to consider any other theories or locations
-all the resources were poured into that 1 general spot near Perth

I am beginning to think they do have much more than they are letting on and they must feel they know precisely where the plane went down. They may have just been off by a little bit and are using this time to refine exactly where to look next time they go out.

When they finally resume searching, if we hear that they find it relatively quickly, then we will know that this was the case. And instead of cheering for them, I am going to be very upset because that will prove they only released limited info and kept it all to themselves so they could be the heroes in this. All at the expense of the families suffereing and waiting.

 

[Hatfield]

I don’t think it’s really that unusual that they won’t give up potentially sensitive information. Maybe they know something about this group of “volunteers” that we don’t know, or maybe they don’t know anything about them, and are reluctant to give up information to an unknown entity that might compromise the security of any number of countries based on radar or other data.

Good points. I had not thought about it from that angle.

 

[2rose]

Outside group tells governments where to search for Flight 370
By Mike Ahlers, CNN updated 7:37 AM EDT, Wed June 18, 2014 Washington (CNN) --
The doubters have spoken. A group of independent experts -- who prodded authorities to release satellite data on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 -- says it thinks it knows the approximate location of the missing aircraft.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/18/world/asia/malaysia-missing-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

The actual statement that CNN is reporting about which lists the scientists is found on this webpage ...

http://www.duncansteel.com/

2014/06/17 Statement from an Independent MH370 Investigation Team

---

"EXNER said the informal group of experts has volunteered to work with the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau. But, while the government agencies have been polite, they have been reticent to release additional information that could further help the independent group, he said."

Why in the world at this late stage is any of the powers-to-be reluctant to provide the additional information?

And I just want to remind everyone that EXNER is just not any scientist.
He was THE oceanagrapher in charge of the marine operations for the 2009 Air France crash.
He was second in command to the French guy who was in charge of overall co-ordination (like HOUSTON is now).
EXENER has said that they learned a lot during that operation & I think his experience would be a great help.
.

 

[2rose]

I don’t think it’s really that unusual that they won’t give up potentially sensitive information. Maybe they know something about this group of “volunteers” that we don’t know, or maybe they don’t know anything about them, and are reluctant to give up information to an unknown entity that might compromise the security of any number of countries based on radar or other data.

The MH370 authorites don't have to release the info to ALL the scientists
... & neither to all the 10 scientists who signed the statement.
They could pick & choose who they want to bring in for consultation.
For instance, they could select EXNER because of his recent previous ocean crash experience with Air France.
Also EXNER would already be familir with any policies of who he can & can't share sensitive info with.

 

[time]

From that link, we have this....

"Exner said the informal group of experts has volunteered to work with the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board and the Australian Transport Safety Bureau. But, while the government agencies have been polite, they have been reticent to release additional information that could further help the independent group, he said."

Why in the world at this late stage is any of the powers-to-be reluctant to provide the additional information?

I can only assume that "they" want to be the heroes in this and are possessive of the data because they want to be the ones to find the plane. I cry fowl and am very upset to still hear that the powers to be are not forthcoming.

It is no wonder the plane has not been found when you have authorities and agencies unwilling to let others help find the plane. Even when proven that they did not find it, they still are reluctant to allow others the data they need to better help.

It screams out to me that someone wants to be a hero instead of just allowing others to find the darn thing and give the families some peace. So upsetting

Either that or there is something else hinky... no matter it is foul and ridiculous after so many countries have expended so many resources!

 

[ElleElle]

When I look at this chart, in the BBC link, of the ocean floor in the search area, I realise how very small MH370 would be (the length of one of those dotted lines depicting the search area is about 400 miles/600 km. MH370 is/was about 209 feet/64 metres long).

And I realise that they couldn't have even scanned to the greatest depths in the search area .. as Bluefin couldn't go much past 4,000 ft .. and all the light blue and purple zones are much deeper than that.

It just seems like an impossible task finding wreckage in a topography like that. Underwater mountains, valleys, crevasses .......

Agree with this, however, with today's modern technologies, such as metal detection "should" be able to spot it.

We can send spaceships to the moon, but we can't scour an ocean floor?

I'm just not sold on the search area.

JMO.

 

[ElleElle]

What if the plane was flying low enough that when it hit the water, it just sank?
I don't know, really. I'm just grasping at straws at this point.

True, since there would been no landing gear deployed *if* it just glided into rough seas.

 

[ElleElle]

If MH370 is in that area, it may never be found. So many mountains and crevasses that the plane could be by/in.

Now I'm thinking *if* there was debris it is stuck between the mountains, valleys, plateaus.

Wasn't the same area that the '04 Tsunami had the eruption?

 

[ElleElle]

What's ISIS?
And IMO, I don't think this plane's disappearance is any sort of sham or conspiracy.

Maybe not a conspiracy, but tied into recent world events.

JMO

 

[ElleElle]

...and as far as I understand, ISIS recruits heavily in Malaysia

Great. Here we go. Instead of a tin foil hat, I'm going to need a bunker.

 

[ElleElle]

This is from one of my older posts.

When the cell phone is turned on, it connects to the network and basically says hello network, i'm this phone and i'm connected. Some would call it a handshake, ping, or acknowledgement. Which is why the police and authorities are able to ping your cell phone and pull a GPS coordinates to find out where you are.
Now when you turn your cell phone off, it sends another message, basically saying i'm leaving the network and will no long be on to accept calls. So there will be no more ringing.
If you happen to pull your battery out or the battery dies, the phone has no time to send that goodbye message, and the network will assume the phone is still on and just not in network range, temporary signal loss, and to someone who is trying to call you, they will think you are ignoring their calls. Which is why the families still heard their loved ones phone ring when they called.
When you place the phone in "Airplan Mode" it is turning off the Antennas and any outgoing signal. At the same time it is telling the network that it is no longer available to receive calls, which is why I say it is not posisble to test this from an iPhone.

:rocker: Thank you for clarifying.

With that being said, I wonder what percent of the passengers have iPhones and had them on "Airplane" mode.

 

[time]

...and as far as I understand, ISIS recruits heavily in Malaysia

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/06/14/ISIS-and-the-first-Malaysian-suicide-bomber/

Just a year ago, Ahmad Tarmimi Maliki was a quiet 26-year-old factory worker. Now, he has the dubious honour of being Malaysia’s first suicide bomber linked to the Islamic State of Iraq and Sham (ISIS).

 

[2rose]

:rocker: Thank you for clarifying. With that being said, I wonder what percent of the passengers have iPhones and had them on "Airplane" mode.

I think this was previously covered here ...

Here is one article about MH370 cell phone connectivity ...

http://mashable.com/2014/03/17/malaysia-mh370-cellphones-connected/

... A recent Consumer Electronics Association Study reported that 30% of flyers forget to power-down their devices during take-off and landing. So it’s fair to assume that at least some small percentage of flight MH370 passengers may have had their phones on for the duration of the flight.

So that would mean that we can expect about 70% of the phones were turned off or in airplane mode.

This would have been an American study & there may be some differences depending on culture, economy, availability, etc. So for instance one thing we may want to consider is whether Malaysians would own more or fewer cell phones than Americans ?

 

[ElleElle]

I think this was previously covered here ...


So that would mean that we can expect about 70% of the phones were turned off or in airplane mode.

This would have been an American study & there may be some differences depending on culture, economy, availability, etc. So for instance one thing we may want to consider is whether Malaysians would own more or fewer cell phones than Americans ?

And Chinese since most of the passengers were Chinese.

 

[redheadedgal]

has anyone with authority/an official involved in the search come forward to give any credence to the sailor's sighting that i've missed? tia.

 

[ilovepierre]

Now I'm thinking *if* there was debris it is stuck between the mountains, valleys, plateaus.

Wasn't the same area that the '04 Tsunami had the eruption?

The 2004 tsunami/earthquake was closer to Indonesia, but the resulting tsunami(s) did end up occurring in the same general area as the MH370 search area.

 

[ilovepierre]

I think this was previously covered here ...


So that would mean that we can expect about 70% of the phones were turned off or in airplane mode.

This would have been an American study & there may be some differences depending on culture, economy, availability, etc. So for instance one thing we may want to consider is whether Malaysians would own more or fewer cell phones than Americans ?

I would think MOST of the phones were either turned right off or put into "Airplane" mode. Not sure if phones, iPads, iPods, etc are allowed to come off of "Airplane" mode once the plane has leveled out and reached cruising altitude. I know on flights here, the devices have to stay in "Airplane" mode until the plane has landed.

This could also explain the lack of phone calls/messages.

 

[PrairieWind]

has anyone with authority/an official involved in the search come forward to give any credence to the sailor's sighting that i've missed? tia.

Which sailor were you referring to? I havent been on this thread for a while, and thought i would check to see if there was anything new.