Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #24

[time]

To go with the Maldives theory, one has to assume that the Immarstat analysis is just incorrect. Not faked, just wrong.

They could very well be right but at least for me, I am not convinced the Immarstat analysis is even correct.

If we think way back to when the plane first disappeared and how this all went down, it has been a total fiasco from the start. They started way up searching close to where the communications were last heard and they searched there for a few days. Then certain countries took it upon themselves to ignore where Malaysia had them looking and they started looking in the other sea, ignoring where Malaysia had them looking.

Then after a long time passed, Immarstat comes out of the woodwork with their announcement that they pretty much know where the plane went down and every resource was sent down to Perth area.

Then pings are claimed to be heard from the pinger locators and a big deal was made about that. Now they say those pings were probably not even the plane's black box. Well, WTH was it then? Why no explanation of what those noises were if they are so convinced the pings were not the plane.

Then they abruptly stop searching to RE-ANALYZE the Immarstat data which tells me that they themselves are not convinced their analysis was as accurate as they thought it was.

And while all that was going on, they pretty much totally ignored many of the other "tips + leads" like the MULTIPLE eye witnesses in Maldives that saw a VERY LOW flying plane the morning the flight disappeared. And the oil platform eye witness that saw a ball of fire. There has never been given a good explanation of why they totally discounted these sightings.

So, in a nutshell this whole fiasco has made me very synical and suspect of ANYTHING + EVERYTHING that they say anymore. Immarstat may end up finding the plane, but I sure aint betting any money on it. :floorlaugh:

I'm still cynical also... for quite a few reasons and I'll say this again. Inmarsat did not make their raw data available. Whether their goal was supposedly transparency, I think it is crucial that it should have been verification by other experts. They are just giving everyone the 'trust me' line.

The satellite company has extracted the crucial lines from the logs and has published it with an explanation and analysis. They have not published the raw computer pages which is likely to raise questions about why not.

Inmarsat says nothing important has been left out, but that the raw data would not have been understandable on its own. The goal of publication is transparency, not verification.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/27/world/asia/mh370-is-inmarsat-right-quest-analysis/

The data would have been understandable to other experts and they could have released a supposedly 'understandable' version and the full data.

Could it have been faked? Who knows. Did anyone think Bernie Madoff was doing what he was doing? As I read on another comment "Transparency without means for people to verify is called translucent or non-transparent at all."

But I also think it's possible that the pings could have been faked by another party or there is something faulty with their data/data analysis. I'll believe otherwise when the plane is found!

P.S. I am not a conspiracy theorist by nature!

 

[time]

Inmarsat says it is confident the satellite communications data it submitted to Malaysian authorities probing the disappearance of MH370 is accurate assuming that the data was not “spoofed”.

“We are very confident that this data is correct assuming that there is no other way this data has been spoofed in any way”, said Inmarsat VP Aviation David Coiley at a recent APEX Technology Committee meeting in California. He stressed that Inmarsat strongly believes that spoofing did not occur.

Referenced in this context, a spoofing attack would be defined as a situation in which a person or program sent fake signals to the satellite network. The fact that such a scenario is, in Inmarsat’s mind, the only conceivable way the data could be wrong, speaks volumes about the British satellite operator’s confidence in its data and analysis, and in its final conclusion that MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean.

http://www.runwaygirlnetwork.com/20...-data-correct-assuming-it-hasnt-been-spoofed/

 

[2rose]

Inmarsat did not make their raw data available.

It only confuses things when inaccurate statements like this are made.
An accurate statement is that the Malaysian authorities chose not to release all of Inmarsat's raw data.

Inmarsat has absolutely NO control over the raw data because they do NOT own it.
Malaysia Airlines is the legal owner of the raw data & per aviation protocols
it is entirely up to the Malaysian investigators to withold or reveal ANY & ALL info.

Once again, you can not blame Inmarsat for the bad decisions & actions taken by Malaysia.

 

[time]

It only confuses things when inaccurate statements like this are made.
An accurate statement is that the Malaysian authorities chose not to release all of Inmarsat's raw data.

Inmarsat has absolutely NO control over the raw data because they do NOT own it.
Malaysia Airlines is the legal owner of the raw data & per aviation protocols
it is entirely up to the Malaysian investigators to withold or reveal ANY & ALL info.

Once again, you can not blame Inmarsat for the bad decisions & actions taken by Malaysia.

Point taken, but I believe Inmarsat did make the statement I quoted and they did release the 'data' didn't they? If they did, then they hold some responsibility for being in the news and making that statement. And, who has seen the raw data besides supposedly some from Inmarsat and some from Malaysia?

What matters is that the raw data and logs were not released... so let's just agree that is not Inmarsat's fault...

"Michael Exner, a US-based satellite engineer and one of the most prominent independent experts to analyse the findings, said Malaysia had failed to provide crucial supporting details together with the Inmarsat logs.

"There is a little bit more new information that may help us. But there is just a very large body of metadata that is missing," he told AFP.
"They are not being transparent," he added. "It may not be possible to draw any conclusions. Why don't they just release all? Why do they hide so much of it?

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world...sia-of-withholding-data/article1-1223658.aspx

 

[panthera]

This theory has always been top on my list.
With the exception of the pilot being the one flying the plane.
I think the plane was flying solely on autopilot after the passengers (and later the pilots) were incapacitated. OR the plane was hijacked.

Also still have the same theory. Just cannot believe after over three months NOTHING has been found to even give a clue what occurred and I am really skeptical of the searches at this point. Not that I believe the Australian search wasn't based on what they believed to be credible information, but that the information itself which led them to search that area was erroneous.

MOO

 

[2rose]

For the record, here is a CNN article that describes what I have brought up ...

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/27/world/asia/malaysia-missing-plane/index.html

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
- NEW: Inmarsat CEO: We didn't release model we used to crunch data; it's up to Malaysian government

... Inmarsat CEO Rupert PEARCE acknowledged Tuesday that the company didn't
release the model to which it applied the data to estimate the plane's path - & said
the decision on whether to release the model lies with the Malaysian government,
which is leading the search.

"We'd be perfectly happy to put that model out," PEARCE told CNN's "New Day".

But PEARCE also told CNN that the released data is enough - along with engine & radar data -
for experienced third parties to plug into their own models & reach their own conclusions.

... For weeks, Inmarsat said it didn't have the authority to release the data,
deferring to Malaysian authorities, who are in charge of the search for the plane that
disappeared over Southeast Asia while on a scheduled flight from Kuala-Lumpur to Beijing.

... The company's calculations, he said, have been tested by other people.

"No one has come up yet with a reason why it shouldn't work with this particular flight when it has worked with others," Mark DICKINSON said. "And it's very important this isn't just an Inmarsat activity. There are other people doing investigations, experts who are helping the investigation team, who have got the same data, who made their own models up & did the same thing to see if they got the same results & broadly speaking, they got roughly the same answers."

... Malaysian officials told CNN earlier this month that their government did not have the data. But Inmarsat officials said the company provided all of it to Malaysian officials "at an early stage in the search."

"We've shared the information that we had & it's for the investigation to decide what & when it puts out," Inmarsat Senior Vice President Chris McLaughlin said earlier this month.

Point taken, but I believe Inmarsat did make the statement I quoted and they did release the 'data' didn't they? If they did, then they hold some responsibility for being in the news and making that statement.

The way it worked is that Inmarsat gave ALL their data to Malaysia.
Then Malaysia picks & chose what they want to release publicly.
Then the reporters go to Inmarsat & ask questions.
Inmarsat is left to make comments as truthfully as it can,
while trying not to damage their public business relationships.
So they are forced to be diplomatic & try not to criticize or blame Malaysia
for the bad decision of witholding parts of the info.

What matters is that the raw data and logs were not released... so let's just agree that is not Inmarsat's fault

Inmarsat would be breaking the law if they release ANY data without the permission of the Malaysian authorities.

The question of WHO is witholding info is important because people are now trying to say we
can not trust the validity of Inmarsat's raw data because that company is not professional.
But really it is the professionalism of the Malaysians is what is questionable.
The way Malaysia is handling things is what makes people suspect problems where none may exist.

The Inmarsat company has explicitly stated that they welcome outside corroboration
... an attitude that exhibits integrity.

And, who has seen the raw data besides supposedly some from Inmarsat and some from Malaysia?

The Australians have independantly verified Inmarsat's raw data because
the satellite communicated with MH370 through the Perth ground station ...

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/27/w...sat-right-quest-analysis/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Once the plane went missing, the ground station in Perth checked the logs
& discovered that while the aircraft's communications systems were switched off,
the plane & the satellite still kept saying "hello" to each other, every hour.

This makes me wonder if the plane had taken the northern route,
would it still be communicating through the Perth ground station ...
OR would it have switched to a Middle Eastern ground station ???

 

[time]

I don't have the expertise to say that much, obviously! But I'm not the only one who has questioned this data. This is a fairly exhaustive piece analyzing .... possibly already posted here, but maybe bears repeating if so

Why the Official Explanation of MH370’s Demise Doesn’t Hold Up: Outside satellite experts say investigators could be looking in the wrong ocean.

Ari N. Schulman May 8 2014

http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...ation-of-mh370s-demise-doesnt-hold-up/361826/

 

[2rose]

I don't have the expertise to say that much, obviously! But I'm not the only one who has questioned this data. This is a fairly exhaustive piece analyzing .... possibly already posted here, but maybe bears repeating if so

Why the Official Explanation of MH370’s Demise Doesn’t Hold Up: Outside satellite experts say investigators could be looking in the wrong ocean.

Ari N. Schulman May 8 2014

http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...ation-of-mh370s-demise-doesnt-hold-up/361826/

Schulman's article was written on May 8 before the May 27 release by Malaysia
of Inmarsat's partial raw data. So I am sure he would have some new input now

I have already previously acknowledged that I too would like to see other scientists
corroborate all of Inmarsat's analysis about the Southern vs the Northern arc.

Please note that Schulman references & relies heavily on the outside independant team of
unauthorized scientists (including Duncan Steel & Michael Exner) whom I have previously linked to.
Since Malaysia's May 27 release, that scientific team's latest proclamation NOW agrees with the Southern arc.

http://www.duncansteel.com/

In this current discussion the Inmarsat data was brought up in reference to
existing evidence that contradicts the Maldives theory.

 

[2rose]

Inmarsat says it is confident the satellite communications data it submitted to Malaysian authorities probing the disappearance of MH370 is accurate assuming that the data was not “spoofed”.

“We are very confident that this data is correct assuming that there is no other way this data has been spoofed in any way”, said Inmarsat VP Aviation David Coiley at a recent APEX Technology Committee meeting in California. He stressed that Inmarsat strongly believes that spoofing did not occur.

Referenced in this context, a spoofing attack would be defined as a situation in which a person or program sent fake signals to the satellite network. The fact that such a scenario is, in Inmarsat’s mind, the only conceivable way the data could be wrong, speaks volumes about the British satellite operator’s confidence in its data and analysis, and in its final conclusion that MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean.
http://www.runwaygirlnetwork.com/20...-data-correct-assuming-it-hasnt-been-spoofed/

This idea of spoofing is interesting & something I have wondered about before ...
was it possible for any party OTHER THAN flight MH370 to falsely identify itself as that very plane ???

Unfortunately I don't have any idea how that could be done &
would need a hacker-type person to describe the technology of it.

The only thing is that it makes one infer an intricate conspiray since it would seem that
foreknowledge was required to implement it during 2am to 8am Saturday morning on 8 March 2014
Would it have to involve espionage or the military ... or maybe a terrorist faction ?
Could a lone hacker do it ?

 

[marlywings]

Malaysian police investigation names MH370 pilot ‘prime suspect’

June 22, 2014 2:54PM

AN OFFICIAL police investigation into the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight 370 has identified the captain as the prime suspect — if it is proven human intervention was involved.

Captain Zaharie Shah became the focus of the special investigation in Malaysia after all other passengers were cleared of any suspicion, The Sunday Times reported.

After conducting 170 interviews, investigators noted strange behaviour by the pilot. He had made no future plans - socially or professionally - and his home flight simulator was programmed with a flight path into the depths of the Southern Ocean before landing the plane on an island with a small runway. The drills were deleted from the computer but specialists were able to retrieve the files. There is also speculation his home life was fraught with difficulties, though this has been denied by his family.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ot-prime-suspect/story-fniztvng-1226962811653

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't believe anyone on this matter anymore.
If anything I want to see real data from any satellite company that shows a plane once in air and followed through to landing, thats what I want to see, with my eyes not theirs.

 

[2rose]

we've been discussing the "sighting" that is being discussed in this link:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f108/i-think-i-saw-mh370-127132.html
it was covered by the MSM and was brought here 2-3 weeks ago...

I was reading the sailor's forum today & the sailor's husband mentioned
something I am totally unfamiliar with called "submarine cable".
He says that when they were in the Adaman Islands they saw a ship
which they first assumed was working on the "submarine cable".
But over the course of a couple of days, this ship was going
back & forth as if they were searching for something.
He was afraid that he might find somebody clinging to a buoy for dear life.
So at the time, he wondered why the ship didn't approach them
to see if they had witnessed anything.

Well I thought it was an odd co-incidence because I had only read
about "submarine cable" once before in my life & it was in connection
to a MH370 passenger who was an executive in this field.

She is listed on the flight manifest as Chinese passenger in seat#14C
"Hualian Zhang" @42, but she was widely known by her nickname "Happy".
She was the Vice-President of network planning for "China Telecom Global"
who have investments in more than half a dozen new cables.

One of her peers in the telecom industry wrote about her saying that
Happy ZHANG was a true leader. When the industry was stumbling,
she took on a very important leadership role & single heandedly
saved the industry from disaster. She oversaw the largest
expansion of China in the submarine cable industry.

She was returning from Kuala-Lumpur after signing the construction &
maintenance agreement for Sea-Me-We-5, the planned submarine cable
which will stretch 20,000 km from Singapore to Europe.

Some people theorize whether the disappearance of MH370 had something to do
with corporate intrigue since there were 20 Freescale employees on board.
So this is another big corporate connection.

 

[ElleElle]

It only confuses things when inaccurate statements like this are made.
An accurate statement is that the Malaysian authorities chose not to release all of Inmarsat's raw data.

Inmarsat has absolutely NO control over the raw data because they do NOT own it.
Malaysia Airlines is the legal owner of the raw data & per aviation protocols
it is entirely up to the Malaysian investigators to withold or reveal ANY & ALL info.

Once again, you can not blame Inmarsat for the bad decisions & actions taken by Malaysia.

So, the question is: What is Malaysia hiding? Or, they just dont believe the information is important?

I am not convinced 1 company can pinpoint an aircraft with the multiple scenarios that don't make any sense.

JMO

 

[ElleElle]

This idea of spoofing is interesting & something I have wondered about before ...
was it possible for any party OTHER THAN flight MH370 to falsely identify itself as that very plane ???

Unfortunately I don't have any idea how that could be done &
would need a hacker-type person to describe the technology of it.

The only thing is that it makes one infer an intricate conspiray since it would seem that
foreknowledge was required to implement it during 2am to 8am Saturday morning on 8 March 2014
Would it have to involve espionage or the military ... or maybe a terrorist faction ?
Could a lone hacker do it ?

Yes, I believe it got hacked. That's it - that's all. Could be in an inside job, someone who knows this models computer system like the back of their hand.

If biggies like eBay can get hacked, anything is possible.

JMO

 

[ElleElle]

Malaysian police investigation names MH370 pilot ‘prime suspect’

June 22, 2014 2:54PM

AN OFFICIAL police investigation into the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight 370 has identified the captain as the prime suspect — if it is proven human intervention was involved.

Captain Zaharie Shah became the focus of the special investigation in Malaysia after all other passengers were cleared of any suspicion, The Sunday Times reported.

After conducting 170 interviews, investigators noted strange behaviour by the pilot. He had made no future plans - socially or professionally - and his home flight simulator was programmed with a flight path into the depths of the Southern Ocean before landing the plane on an island with a small runway. The drills were deleted from the computer but specialists were able to retrieve the files. There is also speculation his home life was fraught with difficulties, though this has been denied by his family.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ot-prime-suspect/story-fniztvng-1226962811653

Don't buy it, just a red herring.

MOO

 

[time]

Malaysian police investigation names MH370 pilot ‘prime suspect’

June 22, 2014 2:54PM

AN OFFICIAL police investigation into the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight 370 has identified the captain as the prime suspect — if it is proven human intervention was involved.

Captain Zaharie Shah became the focus of the special investigation in Malaysia after all other passengers were cleared of any suspicion, The Sunday Times reported.

After conducting 170 interviews, investigators noted strange behaviour by the pilot. He had made no future plans - socially or professionally - and his home flight simulator was programmed with a flight path into the depths of the Southern Ocean before landing the plane on an island with a small runway. The drills were deleted from the computer but specialists were able to retrieve the files. There is also speculation his home life was fraught with difficulties, though this has been denied by his family.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ot-prime-suspect/story-fniztvng-1226962811653

Weird... this sounds identical to early articles. A while back I posted an article where his wife said he hadn't used the simulator for a year. I guess he could have and she didn't know it. I still am not buying this theory either.

 

[Cherry]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/06/22/16/01/mh370-captain-identified-prime-suspect

I hv been blogging about this from day one; and I knew he was looking to land on an island...I had that feeling and I swear that plane landed and will be used against the US at some point and time. I knew the day they released the info about him attending the trial in NY; going out of his way to do so....and also I read his body language as he went thru the metal detector, it said : "i'm not ever going to have to do that again" it was how he slapped his arms to his side like "that's Done". This needs to be labled a terrorist attack.

 

[time]

This idea of spoofing is interesting & something I have wondered about before ...
was it possible for any party OTHER THAN flight MH370 to falsely identify itself as that very plane ???

Unfortunately I don't have any idea how that could be done &
would need a hacker-type person to describe the technology of it.

The only thing is that it makes one infer an intricate conspiray since it would seem that
foreknowledge was required to implement it during 2am to 8am Saturday morning on 8 March 2014
Would it have to involve espionage or the military ... or maybe a terrorist faction ?
Could a lone hacker do it ?

Spoofing seems entirely possible to me. I found it interesting that it was brought up and Inmarsat VP Aviation David Coiley says is “We are very confident that this data is correct assuming that there is no other way this data has been spoofed in any way."

If spoofing occurred, I think it would be a group of people not a lone hacker. It would explain a lot.... sightings, Duncan Steele now agreeing, why they can't find the plane, etc. and still not say Inmarsat is lying or incorrect.

 

[Sunshine95]

Wow. Any idea what island it was?

 

[Intermezzo]

So, the question is: What is Malaysia hiding? Or, they just dont believe the information is important?

I am not convinced 1 company can pinpoint an aircraft with the multiple scenarios that don't make any sense.

JMO

This is how I see it...

I have come to expect a certain level of transparency in my gov't(s) BUT it does not mean I can expect nor demand the same from a sovereign nation

The power and authority resides with the Malaysian gov't to give out information or not, what to give out and what to hold back, who to give the information to and who to withhold it from

Do I find it frustrating? yes.

:twocents: