Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #24

[ElleElle]

I agree,
In the area of the south indian ocean I have been looking at there are very few islands
these islands are very isolated and remote
I have searched but have not been able to find one with a landing strip, any kind of landing strip

There is always Tromelin island, which can land a 777.

 

[ilovepierre]

Yes. I still don't believe it went South since, I believe, Australia/US would have spotted it. North, on the other hand, different story.

JMO

I'm still of the belief that the plane went South.
But near the Maldives or some other island nation(s).
But again, it also wouldn't surprise me if the plane DID go North.

:dunno:

 

[CHERIE.T]

Cherry , do you still believe he has the plane somewhere?

 

[Intermezzo]

There is always Tromelin island, which can land a 777.

TY
I looked it up
this island is just off the east coast of Madagascar

I don't believe MH370 flew west..at least not that far west..
I believe it flew south..perhaps more south westerly than the current search area but still along the Arcs

also, wouldn't Madagascar and possibly South Africa or Mauritius have picked it up on military radar ....

I am guessing, since there is no sign of this plane and no motive why it went missing That many nations may have looked at their military radar and satellites even for their own national security

 

[Intermezzo]

I'm still of the belief that the plane went South.
But near the Maldives or some other island nation(s).
But again, it also wouldn't surprise me if the plane DID go North.

:dunno:

I consider mh370 flying towards the Maldives as a westerly direction perhaps a west southwest direction
and it would have also gotten closer to and flown across the Inmarsat satellite

I can't shake this feeling it flew south or south southwest direction into the middle of nothing but open ocean

:twocents:

 

[Nova]

Wow. Any idea what island it was?

I have no idea (I know you were asking Cherry), but if forensic techs were able to find computer simulations that the pilot had deleted, I suspect those investigating may have a clue.

 

[LadyL]

hold up, I don't see any sources cited in that article, nor can I find any other MSM story with this info, except from early on ...

 

[Momoffourboys]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2014/06/22/16/01/mh370-captain-identified-prime-suspect

I hv been blogging about this from day one; and I knew he was looking to land on an island...I had that feeling and I swear that plane landed and will be used against the US at some point and time. I knew the day they released the info about him attending the trial in NY; going out of his way to do so....and also I read his body language as he went thru the metal detector, it said : "i'm not ever going to have to do that again" it was how he slapped his arms to his side like "that's Done". This needs to be labled a terrorist attack.

What trial did he attend in NY? TIA

Do you mean Anwar Ibrahim's trial? That was in Malaysia.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-trial-jailed-opposition-leader-sodomite.html

 

[2rose]

I'm still of the belief that the plane went South.
But near the Maldives or some other island nation(s).
But again, it also wouldn't surprise me if the plane DID go North.

The Maldives is neither on the sourthern or northern arc
... it is WEST & close to the satellite position.

Perhaps you misunderstand what is fact & what is theory about Inmarsat ?
Perhaps an analogy may help claify the situation ? I will compare
a normal long distance phone call to the Inmarsat satellite handshake.

Say we know 2 people plan to visit each other ...
caller#1 in New York City makes a long distance phone call to
caller#2 in Los Angeles & they discuss their travel plans.

Some parts of this communication between these 2 people
are FACT & other parts are THEORY (who is going to visit who).

FACT: it can be proven that a long distance phone call actually was made between these
2 specific callers because of the existing computer hardware records that are created.
When one goes to the phone company, they will do a print out from their computer
hardware that can be used as proof by any law enforcement in a court of law.

Essentially there are 4 separate hardware records created for this phone call:

1. on the NYC telephone company computer, a record is created of an
outgoing phone call from a specific NYC phone account which will be billed

2. a second hardware record is created at the NYC telephone switching
station which transfers & connects the phone line from NYC to Los Angeles

3. a third hardware record is created at the Los Angeles telephone company
computer of an incoming long distance phone call from NYC to Los Angeles

4. a computer hardware record will be created at the main office of the
telephone company in Los Angeles which will show that a long distance
phone call was made TO a specific Los Angeles phone account

THEORY:
possibility#1 is that caller#1 is going to travel from NYC to Los Angeles
possibility#2 is that caller#2 is going to travel from Los Angeles to NYC

It is hard to prove which theory is the correct one ...
unless we can find MORE hard evidence such as a plane booking.

But the fact that there is some theory involved does NOT invalidate the fact
that a communication occurred between these 2 people who are 2400 miles away.
It can be proven by any of the 4 computer hardware records.

---

So in the same manner, MH370 created computer hardware records
that are factual evidence for it's communication with the satellite.

MH370 FACTS:
1. The satellite has a computer on board that "phoned" the plane
saying "MH370 are you still there ?". If this satellilte were to return to
Earth, a computer geek would be able to track that record on it's computer.

2. The Perth, Australia ground station (like the telephone switching station)
has a computer hardware record confirming that its log shows the communication
between the satellite & a plane identifying itself as MH370 did in fact occur.

3. The plane also has computer hardware record (& if the plane is found)
computer geeks will be able to track the record that the plane replied
"This is MH370, Hello satellite, yes I am still airborne
at about 2000 miles away from you".

4. The Inmarsat office in London, England has a computer hardware record of all
communication between the satellite it owns & that plane which was created in real time.

So Inmarsat then knew there were 2 possible arcs of travel
- a northern arc & a southern arc.
At NO time does the "evidence at hand", suggest a possibility
that a western route or an eastern route was taken.

They THEN brought out a theory having to do with analyzing the frequencies &
ping ring timing & came up with a theory suggesting that the southern arc was taken.

MH370 THORY:
possibility#1 MH370 flew north into the European continent
possibility#2 MH370 flew south into the Indian Ocean

It is hard to prove which theory is the correct one ...
unless we can find MORE hard evidence such as plane debris.

The 2 travel arcs equate to the travel plans of our phone callers.
Although we don't know which direction the travel is heading,
we still have proof of a long distance communication.

---

So we have 2 separate concepts - FACT & THEORY.
The use of some theory by Inmarsat to say that the plane went south
does NOT change the fact that 4 hardware records exist as validated evidence
of a communication occurring betwwen a plane identifying itself as MH370,
flying at a distance of about 1800 miles away from the satellite,
between the hours of 3am to 8am Saturday 8 March 2014.

If the plane had been in the Maldives area, then it would have identified
itself with a frequency & a very short ping ring time & thus only claiming
a distance of about 500 miles away from the satellite
(& thus a travel time difference of over 2 hours).

---

I would also like to point out that in regards to spoofing ...
in the real world we have to acknowledge that this possibility DOES exist.
However it is a very specialized knowledge that the "common man" does not possess.

For instance, when I think of the crime movies that depict a
criminal hacking the telephone system to confuse law enforcement
from tracking him, it is always a very sophisticated criminal who
uses this type of technology ... the average neihgbourhood criminal
just does not have the advanced knowledge to use this tactic.
And telephone hacking (phreaking) has been around since the 1960s.

If spoofing was used during the MH370 disappearance,
it is the first public case of this new criminal tactic being used
... so the number of people that might have this type of knowledge
is a very small portion of the population.
It is a possible, but not most likely scenario.
Occam's razor = K.I.S.S.

I always liked the Diego Garcia theory, BUT ...
good crime detection says any theory should fit the evidence. So I have
a problem now making the public evidence, fit the Diego Garcia theory.
Unfortunately, the facts seem to contradict that possibility.

 

[2rose]

We knew about those practice island landings listed early on. It appears they are talking about new information retrieved off his computer of practicing landings on smaller, previously unnamed uninhabited islands in the South Indian Ocean. There aren't that many. Hopefully they will give us more information on what other islands he practiced a landing on.

There is no reason that I can see to practice a landing in the South Indian Ocean if no one ever uses that route. I'd also like to know how close to the time of his flight did he practice these landings. Weeks, months, days???? I can also see if this is true Malaysia LE may be correct about the pilot. jmo

I remember that back in March, the story ran in many major world newspapers
about some of his deleted files. I just did an internet search & quickly came up
with these 2 New York post articles which also gave the deletion date ...


http://nypost.com/2014/03/19/files-deleted-from-malaysian-pilots-home-flight-simulator/

March 19, 2014 Files deleted from Malaysian pilot’s simulator

Investigators are trying to restore files deleted from a flight simulator found in the home of one of the pilots of the missing Malaysian jetliner as they continue hunting for clues to the deepening mystery.

Files containing records of simulated flights carried out on the program by the pilot, Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah, were deleted Feb. 3, Malaysian police chief Khalid Abu said.

http://nypost.com/2014/03/19/fbi-analyzes-malaysian-pilots-deleted-flight-simulator-data/

March 19, 2014 FBI to analyze Malaysian pilot’s deleted flight simulator data

WASHINGTON — A US official says the Malaysian government is seeking the FBI’s help in analyzing any electronic files deleted last month from the home flight simulator of the pilot of the missing Malaysian plane.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the official was not authorized to discuss the ongoing investigation by name, says the FBI has been provided electronic data to analyze.

Malaysia’s defense minister says investigators are trying to restore files deleted last month from the simulator used by the pilot, Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah. Files containing records of simulations carried out on the program were deleted Feb. 3.

Also IIRC, according to his wife & brother-in-law, something had broken on
the pilot's computer, so he hadn't actually used it much in the previous year.

To me, most of the latest Shah story seems to be a recycling of old info.
Perhaps they have some new island name ... but since Malaysian authorities
have a proven history of witholding info when it is unnecessarty
... for me, well, I have trouble trusting what they say now.

The Inmarsat scientific staff proclaim to the world that they invite any
scientist to check they work they have done for corroboration OR correction.

BUT it is the Malaysian authorites who refuse to release the theoretic research
... which makes it look like they have someething to hide.

So I end up trusting the word of Inmarsat much more than I trust the word of Malaysia.
Transparency builds respect, while secrecy raises doubts & mistrust.

Here is an article that expresses some of what I am feeling ...

16 Jun 2014 Flight MH370: What are they hiding?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...901856/Flight-MH370-What-are-they-hiding.html

 

[2rose]

That is me posting as advocate. I'm going to try to get him to join here.

I saw you asking about when the transponder was turned off. Here are some times ...

2014/03/08/Sat @01:07am MYT (@17:07 UTC) last automatic ACARS data transmission
(next one should have been @1:37am but it didn't happen).
This was how they knew there was a position programmed
which was not part of the original flight plan.
The Rolls Royce engine performance is monitored through the ACARS system,
so this time is also the last transmission of engine health data to Rolls Royce.

@01:21am MYT (@17:21 UTC) Last received transponder data (via F-WMKC1)
speed=471 bearing=040 lat=6.97000 long=103.630 alt=35000 which is
about 90 miles (144 km) off the east coast of Malaysia heading toware Vietnam.

@01:22am MYT (@17:22 UTC) transponder is off & ADS-B is no longer operating

After this time, the Thailand military radar was sending out a signal
which bounces off any plane within about 200 miles.
Planes usually answer this signal with an identification ping.
This signal bounced off one unknown plane that did NOT identify itself
(which most suspect was MH370).
When this unidentified plane went past the 200 mile range,
it simply disappeared from the military radar board.

 

[2rose]

More trajedy in Malaysia ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ysia-migrant-boat-sinking-66-feared-dead.html

18 Jun 2014 Malaysia migrant boat sinking: 66 feared dead

On Wednesday an overloaded wooden boat carrying suspected
illegal Indonesian immigrants sank off Malaysia's west coast.

The boat, whose passengers included women and children, sank at the mouth of a river as it
left Malaysia's Carey Island shortly after midnight, likely bound for Indonesia's Sumatra island.

 

[Hatfield]

There is always Tromelin island, which can land a 777.

Thanks for finding that one.

I do wonder if there is a relatively unknown island the plane landed on. Maybe an island that had a recently built airstrip that is not well known or well documented.

 

[Hatfield]

I remember that back in March, the story ran in many major world newspapers
about some of his deleted files. I just did an internet search & quickly came up
with these 2 New York post articles which also gave the deletion date ...


http://nypost.com/2014/03/19/files-deleted-from-malaysian-pilots-home-flight-simulator/



http://nypost.com/2014/03/19/fbi-analyzes-malaysian-pilots-deleted-flight-simulator-data/




Also IIRC, according to his wife & brother-in-law, something had broken on
the pilot's computer, so he hadn't actually used it much in the previous year.

To me, most of the latest Shah story seems to be a recycling of old info.
Perhaps they have some new island name ... but since Malaysian authorities
have a proven history of witholding info when it is unnecessarty
... for me, well, I have trouble trusting what they say now.

The Inmarsat scientific staff proclaim to the world that they invite any
scientist to check they work they have done for corroboration OR correction.

BUT it is the Malaysian authorites who refuse to release the theoretic research
... which makes it look like they have someething to hide.

So I end up trusting the word of Inmarsat much more than I trust the word of Malaysia.
Transparency builds respect, while secrecy raises doubts & mistrust.

Here is an article that expresses some of what I am feeling ...

16 Jun 2014 Flight MH370: What are they hiding?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...901856/Flight-MH370-What-are-they-hiding.html

I think most of us agree Malaysia has not been very forthcoming from the start. The big question is why. It almost seems like they are trying to hide something.

It doesnt make much sense for them not to cooperate. Unless somehow they feel culpable in this for some reason. Either out of embarrasment or if one of their jets made a mistake and took a shot at the plane.

I struggle with why they have not been forthcoming.

 

[Hatfield]

More trajedy in Malaysia ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ysia-migrant-boat-sinking-66-feared-dead.html

18 Jun 2014 Malaysia migrant boat sinking: 66 feared dead

On Wednesday an overloaded wooden boat carrying suspected
illegal Indonesian immigrants sank off Malaysia's west coast.

The boat, whose passengers included women and children, sank at the mouth of a river as it
left Malaysia's Carey Island shortly after midnight, likely bound for Indonesia's Sumatra island.

OT
Wow. This is really sad. We hear stories of these kinds of boats sinking all the time going from 1 country to another with some sort of illegal human cargo.

I have to suspect that the countries that have these illegal workers have to know about these boat/ferry travels and do little to stop it. The large corporate farmers use these laborers as a cheap form of labor and I suspect they pay off certain government officials to look the other way. Because all a government has to do is wait for harvesting season and go to the fields and they could probably arrest and deport lots of illegal workers.

That article said "A wooden boat carrying 97 Indonesian migrants capsized and sank after leaving Malaysia’s west coast". That is a LOT of pople. It takes organization, planning, and money for the ferry boat to have that many people on board. Many would know about the planning.
All the people planning the journey would know when to meet the boat and it seems the farm owner(s) themselves may also know about such travels both to and from their farms. They have to know they have enough laborers to plant and harvest their crops so much planning is involved even before the growing season.

This is not unique to Malaysia and happens in lots of places. Its just very sad. There are no easy answers.

Parrallels can even be drawn to how the US allows non-resident Mexican nationals to work the farms in Southern California and other southern states. The US government knows they work the large farms and if they wanted to arrest them and deport them , they could, but dont. All they would have to do is show up on the large farms during harvest season.

There are no easy answers to this and it is just very sad that so many have to lose their lives. If things were somehow made legal for the workers to work and ships were inspected, that may help prevent these kinds of disasters. But of course that brings up a whole host of other issues that are too complex to get into here.

Just wish something could be done to prevent this sort of thing from happening.

 

[SweetT]

If the disappearance of this plane involves freescale and some military cloaking/avoiding radar etc then this plane could very well have been a test run, and therefore it could be anywhere, no matter what the arcs say. I mean its whole reason for testing would be to see where they could go without anyone knowing or noticing. It it were me I would for sure make it seem as though it went one way, when in fact it went a totally different direction.
The other thing is, if the pilot had these simulations of going into the southern Indian ocean...They would have a good idea of exactly where in the indian ocean he intended to go and I'm not seeing that. I am seeing a wild goose chase ..which to me speaks more of something to do with freescale. I'll be surprised if this plane is ever found, and then if it is, I will now always wonder if it was planted wherever afterwards.

 

[ilovepierre]

I consider mh370 flying towards the Maldives as a westerly direction perhaps a west southwest direction
and it would have also gotten closer to and flown across the Inmarsat satellite

I can't shake this feeling it flew south or south southwest direction into the middle of nothing but open ocean

:twocents:

That could be possible too.
I just think that the Maldives sighting(s) should be looked at closer and also the water near the island(s) should be looked at too.

 

[ilovepierre]

Thank you. I'll try to read it. It's been one of those days.



Even if they had the cloaking program; it did not disable the hand shakes.
The next thing that will come into play is how much fuel was on board?

BBM.
IIRC, there was about 7 hours of fuel in the plane. Or there may have been almost 8 hours. Can't remember for sure, though.
The flight from KL to Beijing was just over 6 hours, but there is usually extra fuel put in for emergency cases.

 

[ElleElle]

Thank you. I'll try to read it. It's been one of those days.



Even if they had the cloaking program; it did not disable the hand shakes.
The next thing that will come into play is how much fuel was on board?

I want to know how much fuel was onboard and if it is a discrepancy between the amount needed to get to Beijing or not.

 

[ilovepierre]

The Maldives is neither on the sourthern or northern arc
... it is WEST & close to the satellite position.

Snipped for space.

Still doesn't mean the plane can't be near there.
Immersat used data/technology that has never been used until MH370's disappearance. Their data is not necessarily accurate. Immersat was essentially doing a "practice run" with their data. I DO believe the information they used is true, but not 100% accurate.

Until the Maldives sightings are discredited for sure, and the water near the islands is searched, I am still of the belief that the plane is near there.

JMO