ilovepierre
One day, the lost will be found
So sad that Sarah Bajc is receiving death threats 
No one deserves that.
No one deserves that.
Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #24
- Thread starter gregjrichards
- Start date
- Status
Nymeria
Active Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2013
- Messages
- 3,584
- Reaction score
- 16
I agree with you.
But the line also confused me in that I am not getting how "a single business class seat can cost this much" either!
$100,000 :waitasec:
Are they saying that is upkeep costs?
Surely not for the fare
And also not for the seat itself (cost of the actual seat)...
I am sure someone will come along and explain this to me, I think my brain is non-functional this am, not enough sleep, not enough coffee :facepalm:
PS- Happy Mothers Day to all the Moms out there!
ilovepierre
One day, the lost will be found
I agree with you.
But the line also confused me in that I am not getting how "a single business class seat can cost this much" either!
$100,000 :waitasec:
Are they saying that is upkeep costs?
Surely not for the fare
And also not for the seat itself (cost of the actual seat)...
I am sure someone will come along and explain this to me, I think my brain is non-functional this am, not enough sleep, not enough coffee :facepalm:
PS- Happy Mothers Day to all the Moms out there!
That seems a little steep for a single business class seat...
I can't imagine that is the cost.
Could that be the cost to install that device on the plane?
Nymeria
Active Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2013
- Messages
- 3,584
- Reaction score
- 16
Yes Ilove, it is what it costs to install the system on each plane ($100,000 per plane).
What I do not get it they compare that to the price of a seat in business class.
"At a cost of up to $100,000 to buy and install an AFIRS box and antenna per aircraft, its not cheap. But keep in mind that a single business class seat can cost this much. Its a small price to pay for safety."
http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...st-air-in-canada/story-e6frfq80-1226913367388
So not sure if they had a type maybe, and the cost is $1000, or they mean something else. :dunno:
Archangel7
Verified Law Enforcement
- Joined
- May 15, 2013
- Messages
- 1,420
- Reaction score
- 16
No way everyone missed a triple 7 going off course.
There may be some truth to MAS slipping past ATC, primary and secondary radar, maybe even a military based radar.
However, to get past all civilian radar, all conventional military radar AND the US intelligence bases(satellite) in U Tapao Thailand and Pine Gap Austrailia, along with Australian resources(Laverton, Longreach, Alice Springs) etc?
I have no doubt information on the "mystery" is known. Admitting to classified information in public, or to foreigners and those without clearance is a serious undertaking and unlawful from a US standpoint.(certain exceptions apply on allies and intelligence sharing).
No doubt other sovereign nations are the same. There in lies the problem.
One correction to my previous post on satellite patent/Immarsat.(for some reason it won't allow me to edit that post). The patent owner of the patent on resolving ways to adjust for doppler shift in round trips from AES>SAT>GES and vice, is Rockwell International, not Immarsat.
Immarsat hasn't, as far as my research, shared the raw data from the satellite with them either. Simply put, the operator of the satellite developed the Northern and Southern Arcs, not the company that developed the technology and or built the actual Satellite.
There may be some truth to MAS slipping past ATC, primary and secondary radar, maybe even a military based radar.
However, to get past all civilian radar, all conventional military radar AND the US intelligence bases(satellite) in U Tapao Thailand and Pine Gap Austrailia, along with Australian resources(Laverton, Longreach, Alice Springs) etc?
I have no doubt information on the "mystery" is known. Admitting to classified information in public, or to foreigners and those without clearance is a serious undertaking and unlawful from a US standpoint.(certain exceptions apply on allies and intelligence sharing).
No doubt other sovereign nations are the same. There in lies the problem.
One correction to my previous post on satellite patent/Immarsat.(for some reason it won't allow me to edit that post). The patent owner of the patent on resolving ways to adjust for doppler shift in round trips from AES>SAT>GES and vice, is Rockwell International, not Immarsat.
Immarsat hasn't, as far as my research, shared the raw data from the satellite with them either. Simply put, the operator of the satellite developed the Northern and Southern Arcs, not the company that developed the technology and or built the actual Satellite.
Momoffourboys
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2013
- Messages
- 12,997
- Reaction score
- 24,594
In March, only days after the disappearance of the Malaysia Airlines plane, a Malaysian official confirmed that Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370 was hijacked. “Malaysian authorities have concluded that a passenger jet missing since last week was hijacked and deliberately steered off course, a government official involved in the investigation told The Associated Press.”
It has been two months since Flight MH 370 vanished from the face of the earth. For the family members of the 239 souls on board of the airplane, it has been two month of an emotional turmoil to which there seems to be no end. Malaysia has not dismissed a potential hijacking of the airplane and is now focusing on arresting terrorists?
http://www.examiner.com/article/fli...ains-terrorists-releases-5-page-mh-370-report
It has been two months since Flight MH 370 vanished from the face of the earth. For the family members of the 239 souls on board of the airplane, it has been two month of an emotional turmoil to which there seems to be no end. Malaysia has not dismissed a potential hijacking of the airplane and is now focusing on arresting terrorists?
http://www.examiner.com/article/fli...ains-terrorists-releases-5-page-mh-370-report
ilovepierre
One day, the lost will be found
I think it was a typo...at least I hope so!
Archangel7
Verified Law Enforcement
- Joined
- May 15, 2013
- Messages
- 1,420
- Reaction score
- 16
That may be a good number considering the cost of manufacture to have 365 seats in a floor plan.
A triple 7 is around $300 million USD, AVERAGE.(260-320 mil US) depending on configuration. Per Boeing Web........ http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/prices/
A triple 7 is around $300 million USD, AVERAGE.(260-320 mil US) depending on configuration. Per Boeing Web........ http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/prices/
I found this:
http://jalopnik.com/the-ten-most-expensive-airline-tickets-you-can-buy-508196565
Which lists a one-way first-class ticket from NYC to Sao Paulo for $40K, so I guess that’s sort of in the realm, especially when you factor in Canadian exchange and all the surcharges we have to pay :laughitup:
http://jalopnik.com/the-ten-most-expensive-airline-tickets-you-can-buy-508196565
Which lists a one-way first-class ticket from NYC to Sao Paulo for $40K, so I guess that’s sort of in the realm, especially when you factor in Canadian exchange and all the surcharges we have to pay :laughitup:
Nymeria
Active Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2013
- Messages
- 3,584
- Reaction score
- 16
Still seems crazy, but I guess I can see it (not JUST the seat, but factoring it into the overall cost).
Thanks.
:thud: Some people have too much money....and some business' know how to get it from them :giggle:
I can not imagine spending that, even if I had it to spend.
Maybe for a super special occasion, but otherwise...nope.
SouthAussie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2012
- Messages
- 30,692
- Reaction score
- 189,900
Here is a bit more info about GeoResonance's technology - the company that claims that MH370 may be in the Bay of Bengal (but has since not been found by the Bangladesh Navy).
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busin...nd-gas-in-sa-qld/story-e6fredel-1226631746538
This article was written over a year ago, and I can't find anything about the technology having actually worked since then. And GeoResonance still has no phone number .. just a PO box and webpage link for any contact.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busin...nd-gas-in-sa-qld/story-e6fredel-1226631746538
This article was written over a year ago, and I can't find anything about the technology having actually worked since then. And GeoResonance still has no phone number .. just a PO box and webpage link for any contact.
ilovepierre
One day, the lost will be found
I still believe this GeoResonance is a shady company.
JMO and MOO.
JMO and MOO.
Cost has been one of the reasons often cited for the reluctance of airlines to routinely use satellite tracking.
Inmarsat already relays maritime distress calls from ships over its network free of charge.
Following the case of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, which disappeared without a trace, Inmarsat has now offered free airline tracking as a at bare minimum, for a quick fix to the immediate situation.
"Our equipment is on 90% of the world's wide-body jets already. This is an immediate fix for the industry at no cost to the industry," Inmarsat senior vice-president Chris McLaughlin told BBC News.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27369288
Inmarsat already relays maritime distress calls from ships over its network free of charge.
Following the case of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370, which disappeared without a trace, Inmarsat has now offered free airline tracking as a at bare minimum, for a quick fix to the immediate situation.
"Our equipment is on 90% of the world's wide-body jets already. This is an immediate fix for the industry at no cost to the industry," Inmarsat senior vice-president Chris McLaughlin told BBC News.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27369288
Mr. Noatak
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2009
- Messages
- 530
- Reaction score
- 3
My opinions only, no facts here:
Yes, I have heard of this story about after-the-fact bench testing of AF 447's black box. The black box was supposed to ping at 37.5 khz, but instead pinged at 34 khz in a bench test. I have found no scientific articles yet to validate this claim. At the time of the early search, the failure to detect AF 447's black boxes over a month of scans, is a mystery to this day. If the black boxes were pinging at 34 khz, they still would have been detected since pinger locators inspect a fairly wide range of frequencies.
But true or not, the above story could be the source of the current myths (or misunderstandings). Many people are under the impression that black boxes on AF 447 pinged at 37.5 khz from the ocean bottom, but the signals changed to a frequency of 34 khz by the time they reached the surface. In turn, others then inferred that the black boxes from MH 370 were pinging at 37.5 khz and the signals changed to a frequency of 33.3 khz by the time they were approaching the surface. This then led to further claims that ocean currents and topography have changed the source frequency of a black box pinger from 37.5 khz at the source to 33 or 34 khz at the detector.
In scientific terms, the two stories have nothing to do with each other. In the first case (AF 447) we have a black box that underwent the shock of a crash, sat on the ocean bottom for almost two years under immense pressure and then was summarily pulled up to the surface (dramatic pressure drop), and only then did not pass a frequency test. In the second case, we have mysterious pings of unknown origin in the Indian Ocean that are significantly less than the expected (37.5 khz) frequency.
One more thing. Manufacturers are NOT sending out black boxes with pingers that transmit outside the range of 37.5 +/- 1 khz.
Mr. Noatak
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2009
- Messages
- 530
- Reaction score
- 3
My opinions only, no facts here:
Expanding on my post above (about black box pings), I want to suggest a couple of outcome-dependent scenarios.
But first, my one ground rule! Under expected conditions, an underwater black box beacon can be detected from a maximum range of 1.15 English miles (a nautical mile). This detail is important because many of the claimed detections of pings in the Indian Ocean search (where the water is almost 15,000 feet deep) require that the black boxes were detected from far greater distances than theoretically possible.
So,
1) If a protracted search in the area of the ping detections in the Indian Ocean yields nothing OR if the plane is discovered somewhere else in the meantime, then the 33 khz ping signals are stray detections from ship depth-sounders.
2) If the missing plane is found within the current range of ping detections, then something else first led the searchers to that particular spot. By something else, I mean over-the-horizon radar OR a satellite that tracked MH 370 to its final resting place. The nature of the pings becomes very problematic in this second scenario.
Sleuth On!
Expanding on my post above (about black box pings), I want to suggest a couple of outcome-dependent scenarios.
But first, my one ground rule! Under expected conditions, an underwater black box beacon can be detected from a maximum range of 1.15 English miles (a nautical mile). This detail is important because many of the claimed detections of pings in the Indian Ocean search (where the water is almost 15,000 feet deep) require that the black boxes were detected from far greater distances than theoretically possible.
So,
1) If a protracted search in the area of the ping detections in the Indian Ocean yields nothing OR if the plane is discovered somewhere else in the meantime, then the 33 khz ping signals are stray detections from ship depth-sounders.
2) If the missing plane is found within the current range of ping detections, then something else first led the searchers to that particular spot. By something else, I mean over-the-horizon radar OR a satellite that tracked MH 370 to its final resting place. The nature of the pings becomes very problematic in this second scenario.
Sleuth On!
But there is always a chance that it landed on a higher ridge rather than the ocean bottom.
Random things I have heard about the pingers ...
- It is more likely for a pinger to go off frequency in a higher direction rather than a lower direction (which the Air France is suppposed to have done).
- CNN analyst David Soucie (airplane crash investagtor for many years & author of book "Why Planes Crash") had been a big proponent that the pings could only be coming from a black box ... but on May 9th on CNN TV, he said he had changed his mind upon learning that oriental fishing nets have pingers attached to them at 33khz. I did a quick internet search & did see some mention of them, but did not investigate thoroughly.
Mr. Noatak
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2009
- Messages
- 530
- Reaction score
- 3
My opinions only, no facts here:
Regarding the post above by 2rose-
Your post is most excellent.
When talking heads on TV claim that the topography of the Indian Ocean is less well-known than the moon or other planets, there is some exaggeration. In the search area, I do not believe that there are any ridges tall enough to explain the initial detection of the 33.3 khz pings when the TPL-25 detector was being towed at only a thousand foot depth. But let me revisit the bathymetric charts for the search area, to be safe.
I would guess (if the story about fishing nets is true) that there are depth-sounders of some sort on the fishing nets so they do not get placed so deeply that they snag on the bottom. OR, the pingers on the fishing nets are determining where the fish are. After all, a depth-sounder is also a fish-finder on many boats.
Keep up the good work.
Regarding the post above by 2rose-
Your post is most excellent.
When talking heads on TV claim that the topography of the Indian Ocean is less well-known than the moon or other planets, there is some exaggeration. In the search area, I do not believe that there are any ridges tall enough to explain the initial detection of the 33.3 khz pings when the TPL-25 detector was being towed at only a thousand foot depth. But let me revisit the bathymetric charts for the search area, to be safe.
I would guess (if the story about fishing nets is true) that there are depth-sounders of some sort on the fishing nets so they do not get placed so deeply that they snag on the bottom. OR, the pingers on the fishing nets are determining where the fish are. After all, a depth-sounder is also a fish-finder on many boats.
Keep up the good work.
David Soucie gave a source for the fishing net info & I searched the internet immediately for corroboration, but did not find anything ... maybe someone else will ... "Florentino at Newsline" ... not sure of the surname spelling & his first name was James, if I am remembering correctly now a few days later. Soucie said he had previously asked an open question of what else could cause a ping at 33khz ... & he only got the one creditble response.
I just searched unsuccessfully for a CNN transcript of the previous info I mentioned, but came across another interesting discussion here ...
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1405/09/cnr.06.html
"ARI SCHULMAN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, THE NEW ATLANTIC: The map of the satellite pings is straightforward. It's like a game of Marco Polo played across 22,000 miles of space. You've got the satellite sending pings to the plane and it's responding. So you get these basic characteristics of what you expect the responses to look like. One of those is that the plane is stationary on the runway before take off and the satellite is not moving relative to that position, so you would expect there to be no Doppler frequency shifts. You expect that shift to be zero. If you look at the beginning of the graph they published, it's up at about 85 hertz. What it shows is the plane moving on the runway. So something is off with that interpretation".
"DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST & AUTHOR: It's important to point out that they're not questioning the data. What they're questioning is the analysis of the data".
"SOUCIE: What was missing was this base frequency offset, which is the amount of time and the relationship, something about the relationship between the satellite and the airplane, and the satellite and airplane moving together versus moving apart".
I think this is the article they are referring to ...
http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...ation-of-mh370s-demise-doesnt-hold-up/361826/
Why the Official Explanation of MH370s Demise Doesnt Hold Up
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1405/09/cnr.06.html
"ARI SCHULMAN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, THE NEW ATLANTIC: The map of the satellite pings is straightforward. It's like a game of Marco Polo played across 22,000 miles of space. You've got the satellite sending pings to the plane and it's responding. So you get these basic characteristics of what you expect the responses to look like. One of those is that the plane is stationary on the runway before take off and the satellite is not moving relative to that position, so you would expect there to be no Doppler frequency shifts. You expect that shift to be zero. If you look at the beginning of the graph they published, it's up at about 85 hertz. What it shows is the plane moving on the runway. So something is off with that interpretation".
"DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST & AUTHOR: It's important to point out that they're not questioning the data. What they're questioning is the analysis of the data".
"SOUCIE: What was missing was this base frequency offset, which is the amount of time and the relationship, something about the relationship between the satellite and the airplane, and the satellite and airplane moving together versus moving apart".
I think this is the article they are referring to ...
http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...ation-of-mh370s-demise-doesnt-hold-up/361826/
Why the Official Explanation of MH370s Demise Doesnt Hold Up
Came across one source info for the higher frequency ping probabality that I previously mentioned ...
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1405/09/ebo.01.html
"We're trying to interpret that data, and we'd really like to share it with Inmarsat.
BURNETT: So, David, what about, though, if it's not where they're looking, if it turns out they're wrong. How would you explain the other pings, the ones that have been under the water that they picked up that have supposedly come from the black boxes.
SOUCIE: Well, and that there's some new information that I just received information that we're investigating about that as well. We can't really confirm it yet. But we're waiting for last-minute information from some of the airlines that are testing those pingers to see if they really can have a lower frequency or higher frequency. And so far, it looks like they can only reproduce wit a higher frequency.
BURNETT: And of course, they came in lower.
SOUCIE: That's rights. So, there are some real question there's as well. We've been saying all along it's this convergence of data, this convergence of information that gives us so much confidence. There's two things pointing to the same place.
Now with this in question and with the pingers in question, is it really convergence of data or is it conclusions we have drawn others ahead of time. So, that's the question".
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1405/09/ebo.01.html
"We're trying to interpret that data, and we'd really like to share it with Inmarsat.
BURNETT: So, David, what about, though, if it's not where they're looking, if it turns out they're wrong. How would you explain the other pings, the ones that have been under the water that they picked up that have supposedly come from the black boxes.
SOUCIE: Well, and that there's some new information that I just received information that we're investigating about that as well. We can't really confirm it yet. But we're waiting for last-minute information from some of the airlines that are testing those pingers to see if they really can have a lower frequency or higher frequency. And so far, it looks like they can only reproduce wit a higher frequency.
BURNETT: And of course, they came in lower.
SOUCIE: That's rights. So, there are some real question there's as well. We've been saying all along it's this convergence of data, this convergence of information that gives us so much confidence. There's two things pointing to the same place.
Now with this in question and with the pingers in question, is it really convergence of data or is it conclusions we have drawn others ahead of time. So, that's the question".
- Status