Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #3

[kimi_SFC]

NY Times OpEd by Roger Cohen:

The Suns of August
Flight 17: Ukraine’s War and Europe’s Passivity

By ROGER COHEN
JULY 21, 2014

LONDON — A century on from World War I, nobody wants the guns of August.

Yet it must be asked if waiting years for the evasive conclusions of an official investigation into the fate of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 is better than acting now on what we already know: That the Boeing 777 with 298 people on board was shot down by a missile from a Russian-made SA-11 antiaircraft system fired from an area of eastern Ukraine controlled by Russian-backed separatists, Russian mercenaries and Russian agents. A half-drunk Ukrainian peasant with a 1950s-era rifle doesn’t shoot down a plane at 33,000 feet.


MuchMore@Link


http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/2...war-and-europes-passivity.html?_r=0&referrer=




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[time]

Thing is, there was/is so much confusion and propoganda, that we don't really know there were any national team waiting to get in. I've read post here that wondered where all these "teams" were. I don't know, I wasn't there, but I don't remember seeing anyone but the journalists, and later on, days later, some officials.

Can you give me a url, with proof, that there were "national teams", with credentials turned away?

Thanks.

Some links today led me to this article...interesting

Here's the last time Russia shot down a passenger plane

http://theweek.com/article/index/264955/heres-the-last-time-russia-shot-down-a-passenger-plane?utm_content=buffer49cd5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[ZaZara]

Kevin Bishop, Foreign field producer for BBC News:

Kevin Bishop @bishopk

The Malaysian colonel who received #mh17 black boxes confirms to BBC they are in the hands of Dutch military and will be taken to London

The Malaysian colonel was talking to the media outside the Kharkiv factory where #MH17 bodies are being kept



Why black boxes to UK? Only 2 specialist replay units in Europe. They have equipment to listen to the audio recorded. Other one in France.

 

[ZaZara]

Simon Ostrovsky, reporter for VICE News:

Simon Ostrovsky @SimonOstrovsky · 4 uur

Between 200 - 280 #mh17 victim's bodies on train that's arrived in Kharkiv, #Ukraine - Dutch police


Simon Ostrovsky @SimonOstrovsky · 3 uur

282 #MH17 bodies on train in Kharkiv plus body parts belonging to 16 victims, preliminary count - #Ukraine deputy PM


Simon Ostrovsky @SimonOstrovsky · 1 uur

Numbers keep shifting, Dutch forensic team says they're only sure about recovery of 200 #MH17 victims. Confirm receipt of black boxes

BBM

 

[i.b.nora]

Some links today led me to this article...interesting

Here's the last time Russia shot down a passenger plane

http://theweek.com/article/index/264955/heres-the-last-time-russia-shot-down-a-passenger-plane?utm_content=buffer49cd5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Your link doesn't work for me but this link does:

http://theweek.com/article/index/264955/heres-the-last-time-russia-shot-down-a-passenger-plane

 

[ZaZara]

Guardian Live Blog
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-ministers-mh17-sanctions-russia-live-updates

Guardian’s Alec Luhn (@asluhn) reports from Moscow:

At a meeting of the country’s security council, Putin also condemned western sanctions and called on Kiev to implement a ceasefire.

The comments mark the first time that Putin has openly agreed to urge the rebels to cooperate and are the most in-depth expression of his foreign policy since a speech celebrating the annexation of Crimea in March.

“We have been called on put pressure on the rebels in the southeast. We will of course do everything that is in our power,” Putin said, speaking before a long table of officials and army and intelligence officers.

Transcript in Russian of Putin's statement: http://kremlin.ru/news/46305

BBM

 

[Trident]

Sadly, the links don't work for me. I would really like to read this.

 

[ZaZara]

Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/22/us-ukraine-crisis-malaysia-diplomacy-idUSKBN0FR0YP20140722


Malaysia quietly worked back channels to secure bodies, black boxes


As Western leaders increasingly pointed the finger of blame at pro-Russian separatists, and Moscow itself, over the shooting down of a Malaysia Airlines plane in eastern Ukraine, the government in Kuala Lumpur said little.

The reasons for that reticence - which had drawn criticism at home - became clear on Tuesday, when Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak announced shortly after midnight that his government had negotiated the release of the remains of nearly 300 victims of Flight MH17 from separatist-held territory.

Najib, working through intermediaries to reach rebel leader Alexander Borodai, was a key figure in brokering the deal, according to two sources in Malaysia with direct knowledge of the negotiations.

....

But Najib waited. Malaysian officials say a carefully cultivated neutrality was key to sealing a deal that had eluded Western powers.

"In recent days, there were times I wanted to give greater voice to the anger and grief that the Malaysian people feel, and that I feel," Najib said when he finally broke his silence on Tuesday. "But sometimes, we must work quietly in the service of a better outcome."

 

[JLSChook]

Teddy Bear video, what really happened. Starts at about 1:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLdRBaL4-wU

 

[Trident]

Your link doesn't work for me but this link does:

http://theweek.com/article/index/264955/heres-the-last-time-russia-shot-down-a-passenger-plane

That was very powerful. Wow, just powerful. Thank you.

I cry to the heavens for all of us pawns.

 

[zwiebel]

BBC journo at crash site (one who was handed a Dutch passenger's wallet by a miner) says that just from yesterday 'the site has changed tremendously.....there is no doubt it has been tampered with.'

She said that just before the Inspectors arrived XXyesterday(when they had to stand some distance Away)XX TODAY, the pro Russian military brought in cranes which lifted large parts of wreckage into a truck, and took them away. No-one knows where.

I'll link her name in just a sec from the BBC site.

ETA:
The BBC correspondent is Natalie Antelava.
https://mobile.twitter.com/antelava/status/491552536537468928

 

[kimi_SFC]

Sadly, the links don't work for me. I would really like to read this.

I'm hoping this is what you're referring to. I opened the links via iPhone & then tried "Mail this Link"

Here's the last time Russia shot down a passenger plane


http://m.theweek.com/article/index/264955/heres-the-last-time-russia-shot-down-a-passenger-plane


I hope this helps

:heart:


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[BayouBelle_LA]

The picture with the rebel holding the stuff animal is deceiving because it was done in front of journalist but if you watch the whole video you will see he puts it back down, takes off his hat and makes the sign of the cross. We have no idea what the rebel was saying to the journalist but it surely was not that he was taking the toy home to his children, which is what this tweeter may have been all about. I will see if I can find the video.

Maybe we should say 'Bless his Heart'? I don't think so. That's just my opinion.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @WSJ - 3h

Some major airlines still fly over war zones even after #MH17 disaster http://t.co/DzRh8cSDhG

http://t.co/Lu66wUnTDM

http://twitter.com/WSJ/status/491624888034418688



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[Trident]

Maybe we should say 'Bless his Heart'? I don't think so. That's just my opinion.

Maybe we should just say, "God bless a man with a heart and human feelings".

 

[ZaZara]

Deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten
http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachric...-von-satelliten-bildern/#.U86QgfUW52A.twitter


Abschuss MH17: USA zögern mit Veröffentlichung von Satelliten-Bildern
Deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten | Veröffentlicht: 22.07.14, 13:36 |
Die für das Wochenende angekündigte Veröffentlichung der Satellitenbilder vom Abschuss von MH17 ist einem US-Medienbericht zufolge bisher unterblieben, weil die Amerikaner festgestellt haben sollen: An der Buk-Raketenbasis hantierten möglicherweise betrunkene Soldaten in ukrainischen Uniformen, und nicht Rebellen.

....

Die Quelle sagte, dass die CIA-Analysten noch nicht ausschließen wollten, dass es sich um Rebellen aus der Ostukraine handelt, die ähnliche Uniformen tragen. Doch die ursprüngliche Einschätzung war, dass es sich um ukrainische Soldaten handelt. Es gab auch die Vermutung, dass die die betreffenden Soldaten undiszipliniert und möglicherweise betrunken waren. Die Satellitenbilder zeigten am Boden verstreute Bierflaschen auf dem Gebiet, sagte die Quelle.

Translation:

Shooting down MH17: United States hesitate with release of satellite images
German economic news | Published: 22.07.14, 13:36.

The publication of satellite images from the shooting down of MH17 that was announced for the weekend has not been published so far according to an US media report, because Americans alledgedly have determined: on the Buk missile base possibly drunken soldiers in Ukrainian uniforms were involved, and not rebels.

....

The source said that the CIA analysts still do not wanted to exclude involvement of rebels from the Eastern Ukraine, who wear similar uniforms. But the initial assessment was that these are Ukrainian soldiers. It was also suggested that the soldiers were undisciplined and possibly drunk. The satellite pictures showed scattered beer bottles on the ground of the location, the source said.

-----

IMHO this is a strange story. If it is true, what were those Ukrainian soldiers doing in the region controlled by rebels?

 

[MummaP]

"The Red Cross has made a confidential legal assessment that Ukraine is officially in a war, Western diplomats and officials say, opening the door to possible war crimes prosecutions, including over the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH-17.

"Clearly it's an international conflict and therefore this is most probably a war crime," one Western diplomat in Geneva told Reuters.

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) is the guardian of the Geneva Conventions setting down the rules of war, and as such is considered a reference in the United Nations deciding when violence has evolved into an armed conflict."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malays...carrying-victims-arrives-in-kharkiv-1.2714056

I posted the other night about the international red cross, as i was surprised they'd been so quiet about the situation. Glad to hear they've been there.

 

[momrids6]

While I love your posts and the European insight, I have to respectfully disagee on this last point. I DO believe the men at the crash site did the best they could with what they had to work with.

Most of us have never lived in a poor, somewhat backward place. Many of us judge by what we see on TV. CSI, etc. The "real" world, which IS the "real" world for many people, is so much different from our pristine, politically correct, perfect way of doing things.

My hat is off to those who worked through the horrors, who withstodd the odors, and still managed to get the bodies on that train.

And the rescue workers and coal miners moved those bodies while being literally "under the gun".

Emergency workers, who the rebels have allowed to operate under their control, were searching the sprawling fields.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/20/plane-crash-bodies_n_5603114.html

 

[gia2]

ZaZara, I'm going to have a look for which US media source supposedly said this. Very interesting if true!

 

[kimi_SFC]

!!!!!!!


Tweet from @Reuters - 15m

In a move that defies allies, France will move forward with delivering a first warship to Russia: http://t.co/JG8xkQj5Ph

http://twitter.com/Reuters/status/491633298108874752



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