Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #2

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I don't think a disability if this nature fluctuates. Thus particular condition can be be severe to the point of causing facial distortion.

The spiral staircase and mobility had been mentioned so much. Maybe she did have difficulty with it. Did something happen with the staircase? I'm reluctant to think cover up though.
 
has anyone posted possibly Nora was sharing the downstairs bedroom with one of her parents and the other parent was sleeping upstairs with N's siblings? this may negate her having to use the spiral staircase.

This sleeping arrangement makes sense to me — it’s what I would do. :-) With the translations, etc. involved in this case, I definitely think anything is possible.
 
this article is a long read, however i found it informative with regards to understanding the Malaysian culture a little better.

"It is a deeply religious and spiritual country where many people, especially those from rural and conservative states, believe in the powers of traditional folklore and the supernatural."

The mystery of screaming schoolgirls in Malaysia
 
Much of the discussion here now seems to be focusing on whether or not Nóra could manage that staircase. I wonder if it’s relevant now that there were discrepancies in reporting, at the start. It was originally stated by Malaysian police that Nóra was sleeping downstairs, with her two siblings upstairs. This was contradicted by their French grandfather, who stated that they all shared a room. However, with multiple translations involved (Malay-French- English), it is impossible to know which statement is true.

The sleeping downstairs point was originally reported in the national media - here a link to one example. Cops release photo of 'open' downstairs window as search for Nora continues

If she was indeed sleeping downstairs, it potentially puts a different perspective on the case, imo.
 
The parents have said she was sharing a room with her siblings. So unless they are lying, she was on this mezzanine level, accessed by the stairs (EDIT or were they? Beginning to wonder - it would name fast more sense)

Accident involving the balcony?

I like officer Dibbles theory she wandered out and got hit by a vehicle and she was taken. Maybe the truck driver was up to no good. Poaching? Stealing from hotel? Or maybe not, could have been an early morning delivery. Where did the scent end, that info is pretty crucial imho.
 
This case is so troubling, so mysterious and so absolutely heartbreaking. The two articles below discuss Nora's challenges. I absolutely do not buy into that she was abducted but have tried to convince myself how she could have been but I cannot. I do not believe Nora would have wanted to nor could have gone through an open window or would have left the home she and her parents were renting on her own volition or choice just as much as I do not believe an abductor could have made his or her way up that spiral stair case and brought Nora down past the parents.

I do know anything is possible but I just do not see any of these as being possibilities and honestly at this point, I am starting to wonder if the "Genie" did take her because at this point, imo, that possibility almost makes the most sense. Strange things happen. I am not at all saying I am a woo woo type thinker but really.....abduction and her leaving on her own accord I just do not see as possibilities and I am on the fence 50-50...so right now I am considering a Genie because this case is so absolutely confusing. Watching her mother speak absolutely breaks my heart, knowing she is "somewhere out there without her family" breaks my heart for her.

Grandfather of missing Nora Quoirin says 'After an 18-hour flight she would be sleeping, not go for a stroll'
‘This is a young girl with a mild handicap who is rather timid, reserved. She is someone very fearful,’ Sylvain said.

London teen missing in Malaysia isn't independent and has difficulty walking

"But her parents, Irish Meabh Quoirin and her French husband Sebastien, said that Nora Anne was born with holoprosencephaly, a malformation that causes her to have a smaller brain and led to learning and physical disabilities.

"All her life she has spent a lot of time in hospital. When she was born, she needed operations to help her (breathe). She has specialists that monitor her growth, her physical abilities and her strength, and especially her mental capacity."

"She is not like other teenagers. She is not independent and does not go anywhere alone," they said. "Nora likes to walk with her family, but her balance is limited and she struggles with coordination. She has been to Asia, and many European countries before, and has never wandered off or got lost."


Other challenges she faced included having limited verbal communication, not being able to write more than a few words, inability to grasp anything conceptual such as mathematics or managing money and unable to make or receive phone calls independently, they said. Nora can wash and dress herself but she cannot manage buttons and struggles to wash her hair, they said.

The parents described Nora as a "fun, funny and extremely loving" girl but who is also sensitive, shy and anxious outside the family.

"With her family, she is very affectionate. Family is her whole world and she loves to play games, like Cat Bingo, with us. She likes to tell us silly jokes and wear clever, colourful T-shirts," they said. "Every night, her special time is for cuddles and a nighttime story with her Mum. And she was extremely excited about the family holiday in Malaysia."
 
First and foremost, the Malaysian Malay society in that area are religious and conservative. The cultural belief is also linked to the ancestral affinity with the jungle as a dangerous, unknown place with its own inhabitants (animals etc) and spirits/souls - some can loosely call it “genie” in the English language. Many other cultures which are closely linked to forests have similar beliefs... The shaman is basically a trusted medium to communicate with the spirits of the jungle. The term “step-child” is bad translation from the Malay language. Adopted / foster would be a better choice. This is of course la-la for most of us in the occidental world. It could also be that Nora is not with us anymore... Which is sad...

A friend has stayed in that resort a few months back and she said it is very remote. The police taking 3 hours to get there is not a surprise, because police in Malaysia especially in sleepy areas where nothing really happens is generally laid back. Besides, the father screaming “crime” or losing his wit isn’t going to make them faster. Many kids go missing and later found and the Malays generally do not respond well to screaming emotions. Besides, if you wake up and found your kid missing would you scream “Help?! My kid is missing?!” or would you immediately scream “Crime has been committed “ ?

<modsnip - not family friendly>
Poor Nora. I hope she is OK, wherever she is.

Having a special needs child, I don’t think I have ever slept so deeply in years. Especially when I am in unfamiliar places, with my special child.

Keeping my fingers crossed, we’ll find Nora.
 
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The unknowns [to us] are what hamper this line of questioning. For example; who was the last person to go to bed, and what time was this? What time did Nora usually wake [taking jet lag into account here]? What had they talked about doing the next day? Did Nora have any history of sleep walking?
I do not believe someone could enter the house and abduct Nora without waking one of the family. Also, why Nora and not her younger sibling who would've been smaller to extract?
I think it is plausible that Nora woke up disorientated and confused about where she was, and might've panicked thinking she needed to get home. People have commented about the loud jungle noises in this area. This was her first time in this location, so saying "she would never" etc is not really realistic given the new context.
Once outside of the house. however, this is when we have two distinct possibilities, either someone came into contact with Nora and took her, or else she wandered further into the jungle and possibly drowned in the river. Neither of which is a pleasant outcome.
 
The unknowns [to us] are what hamper this line of questioning. For example; who was the last person to go to bed, and what time was this? What time did Nora usually wake [taking jet lag into account here]? What had they talked about doing the next day? Did Nora have any history of sleep walking?
I do not believe someone could enter the house and abduct Nora without waking one of the family. Also, why Nora and not her younger sibling who would've been smaller to extract?
I think it is plausible that Nora woke up disorientated and confused about where she was, and might've panicked thinking she needed to get home. People have commented about the loud jungle noises in this area. This was her first time in this location, so saying "she would never" etc is not really realistic given the new context.
Once outside of the house. however, this is when we have two distinct possibilities, either someone came into contact with Nora and took her, or else she wandered further into the jungle and possibly drowned in the river. Neither of which is a pleasant outcome.


I agree, to say she never does this or that before doesn’t mean she didn’t get out of that window herself or wanders off. Kids (typical or non-typical) do many things which surprise parents!
 
Have been following this case, and my own personal opinion is that she did indeed wander off and has not been found. I presume it was daylight, perhaps the disruption in routine and jet lag as well as her own development (growing up) means she acted in a way that was out of character. I concede the probability of abduction, but think if it happened, it happened opportunistically after she had already gotten out on her own. I think little has been found in the way of evidence because of the sheer magnitude and denseness of the jungle surrounding the area. I don't think we should overestimate the remoteness and terrain that is at play here. That is why I remain open to almost every possibility - the one exception being that anyone in her family had anything to do with it. Her mother's anguish was SO heartbreaking and agonizingly real.

I have also followed far too many cases here on WS and in general where people, living or dead, are missed by search teams, SAR dogs, cadaver dogs, over and over, sometimes walking right by remains. Absence of evidence or her not being found is not evidence of absence - or abduction.

Regardless, I pray that she is found, or at least more clues leading one way or another.
Spot-on.
 
Kids do things that surprise us, certainly.
However, a newborn isn't going to surprise us by walking outside. There are limits to surprises, when a disability actually limits what the child can do.

I wouldn't be surprised if Norah and her sister or Mom were downstairs and the others upstairs. I wouldn't be surprised if someone was able to get Nora out of the house.

There is a good reason that Nora's parents jumped to abduction. If they could have believed she was just outside and would be found quickly, wouldn't that be vastly more pleasant?
 
Sorry to ask but have both parents been cleared of involvement? It’s the first thing they’d consider imo although I don’t know how Malaysian authorities work?
It is every parents worst nightmare to have a missing child but losing them in a foreign country must be terrifying, I keep checking this thread in hopes she has been found safe but as we know the more time that passes the more unlikely it is that she is alive sadly.
 
I can't see a positive outcome coming from this any longer I'm afraid, not after being missing 10 days and being such a vulnerable person. I just hope Nora's found and her parents can have some form of closure. :(
 
We aren’t getting any information on who’s been cleared or not. However since authorities think she wandered away I’d guess they aren’t under suspicion.
 
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