Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #3

[Kubirai]

Depending on the condition of her body, finding a snake or spider bite might be very difficult or even impossible.

Post-mortem exams check for poisons and chemicals.

Even historical figures have been exhumed and tested.

 

[Blamhappy]

Rotting takes place very quickly in the hot climate.

As the body decomposes quickly (people in similar equatorial climate know), clothes will still be there sadly for a while longer. Correct if wrong.

The prep (IF it was abduction/assault) would have known that & taken steps to minimise chances of identification. This includes removing the clothes. This would also include walking in stream, thus no footprints.

Gosh, i can't believe i'm thinking like a criminal's mind
Time to take break/ something else for a while. Been consumed with this like many of us.. Still, thankful at least family has SOME closure instead of not even knowing whether she's passed on or is alive somewhere (that would be more agony, IMO)

Clothes will be there if she’s lying still on a normal surface for nine days, yes, but in a forest with running water and boggy? I don’t think it’s a stretch of the imagination that clothes could have been ripped off. That’s if she WAS completely naked. I have had to skim information today, but the last I understood was that we weren’t sure and that there might be translation errors.

 

[Theforeigner]

I struggle to understand how this girl could have died in a pose as if she was fast asleep. Of course she could have died in her sleep where she was, but how?.

The only realistic ways I see she could have died as a consequence of her natural surroundings and environment given the description given of her body, position and location:- is if she died of...

Heat stroke
Drinking contaminated river water
Eating poisonous plants or animals
A poisonous bite

As her position was one as if one she was sleeping. I believe she may have died later in the day she was reported missing. I am sorry to say, she may well have been in terrible pain and perhaps tried to sleep it off and ended up dying in her sleep.

The body was in too good a condition to have fallen from any height and the position she was found in was wrong.

IF criminal activity was involved in Nora's disappearance and death,
her killer could have posed her body in the "as if she was asleep" position.

 

[Skigh]

Depending on the condition of her body, finding a snake or spider bite might be very difficult or even impossible.

The area around the bite would swell and discolour.
I would think it would be obvious to a pathologist if she had been bitten by a snake or spider.

 

[Chiatos]

So sad for NQ & family. May God bless her.

The police said NQ was found in an "inaccessible" place and a helicopter had to winch her out....as she was between rocks & 1.2km deep in a ravine...
?
But the hiking group was able to go within 10 metres to 20 metres from NQ... Hmm, unclear reporting?
Hmmm...

It's quite clear to me.... inaccessible for cars, 1.2km away from The Dusum, winch her out above the trees by helicopter because cars can't get there.
And yes, the group could reach her on foot.

 

[Theforeigner]

And if Nora was found without any kind of clothes,
were are her underwear or nightgown that she was wearing when she disappeared ?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The head teacher at Nora's school in Wandsworth, south-west London, paid tribute to her as "a delight to work with" and said her fellow pupils and others who knew her will be supported at such a difficult time.

Mike Reeves said: "The Garratt Park School community is deeply shocked and saddened by this awful news.

"Nora was a delight to work with, and focused very hard on making the best of her abilities."
Update: Cause of death in Nora Quoirin case remains unclear

 

[SuperTmo]

I struggle to understand how this girl could have died in a pose as if she was fast asleep. Of course she could have died in her sleep where she was, but how?.

The only realistic ways I see she could have died as a consequence of her natural surroundings and environment given the description given of her body, position and location:- is if she died of...

Heat stroke
Drinking contaminated river water
Eating poisonous plants or animals
A poisonous bite

As her position was one as if one she was sleeping. I believe she may have died later in the day she was reported missing. I am sorry to say, she may well have been in terrible pain and perhaps tried to sleep it off and ended up dying in her sleep.

The body was in too good a condition to have fallen from any height and the position she was found in was wrong.

I believe she likely was bit by a snake. From what I read death happens within 12-24 hours of Malaysian Krait bite. The venom is a neurotoxin. There can be nausea and vomiting as the first symptom fairly early on, and eventually paralysis stops the heart and lungs. She could have laid down to rest from feeling sick and just went to sleep.

 

[Kubirai]

The other 2 kids yes kids are 12 and 8, please check your facts before spreading misinformation about this family. Strong hunches are not facts. JMO

They were aunt and cousin of Nora. My point was that the siblings could have stayed by themselves in the cabin, or helped the parents to search.

But Nora's parents quickly developed a "strong hunch" on Aug 4 that she was abducted from the upstairs bedroom by a criminal.

 

[SuperTmo]

Post-mortem exams check for poisons and chemicals.

Even historical figures have been exhumed and tested.

Yes, but it there is significant decomposition or fluid loss, there may not be a way to check for a toxin.

 

[Chiatos]

Yes, I know.

However, the context of my comments was not about this. We are talking about different issues.

My post just before your post refers to the days when the flesh is decomposing or decomposed.

Due to an error, the quote I was referring to went lost. I was not referring to your post, but to a post about embalming the body for a second autopsy.

 

[Hjp]

IF criminal activity was involved in Nora's disappearance and death,
her killer could have posed her body in the "as if she was asleep" position.

Of course.

Except signs of abduction would have been obvious to any pathologist, especially if it was sexually motivated.

We are no nearer to solving this case than 5 days ago.

If the Malaysian pathologist teams cannot pinpoint the cause of death within the next 24 hours then I would expect Nora's family to pull the plug at some point and fly her back home to Britain or Ireland for a more in-depth assessment.

Inconclusive is not an answer. Any answers are better than no answer.

 

[WmHersey]

Nora could have woken early and gone out to look for the waterfall. Nothing says that she died immediately and during the search it was noted that a white women was seen swimming in the river. She could have taken off her underwear to swim in the river. She could have been alive wandering for days. Nothing says she was dead at the time they first searched the waterfall area. All the theories of abduction come from the parents belief she wouldn't go on her own. I believe they could have been wrong.

 

[Popcorn80]

Reading a lot about the fact she was found naked, could it not be as simple as she wanted to swim in the water so took her nightclothes off.

 

[Kubirai]

Clothes will be there if she’s lying still on a normal surface for nine days, yes, but in a forest with running water and boggy? I don’t think it’s a stretch of the imagination that clothes could have been ripped off. That’s if she WAS completely naked. I have had to skim information today, but the last I understood was that we weren’t sure and that there might be translation errors.

She may have taken off her clothes at some point, if she walked to the river.

The official release said "without clothes" which may also mean she was found only in her underwear. This point should be clarified.

No description of her nightgown was made public, which is quite unusual. Last known clothing of missing kids are always mentioned.

 

[steff13]

I agree that the parents could have been wrong, that she may have gone out on her own.

My personal belief is that a finding of undetermined COD is less likely if she was murdered than if she died of an accident/natural causes. I think most of the ways people kill one another would be more obvious than an accident or natural causes. That's just my opinion, though.

 

[SuperTmo]

The area around the bite would swell and discolour.
I would think it would be obvious to a pathologist if she had been bitten by a snake or spider.

Her entire body would swell and discolor after a few days ... extreme humidity and high heat really increase the rate of decomposition. If her body was in as good of shape the hikers said it was, she wasn’t dead more than a day or two IMO.

 

[steff13]

If there was livor mortis, it might make a bite less obvious.

 

[SuperTmo]

Reading a lot about the fact she was found naked, could it not be as simple as she wanted to swim in the water so took her nightclothes off.

I thought it was said early on that she was asleep only in her underwear.

Of course.

Except signs of abduction would have been obvious to any pathologist, especially if it was sexually motivated.

We are no nearer to solving this case than 5 days ago.

If the Malaysian pathologist teams cannot pinpoint the cause of death within the next 24 hours then I would expect Nora's family to pull the plug at some point and fly her back home to Britain or Ireland for a more in-depth assessment.

Inconclusive is not an answer. Any answers are better than no answer.

I don’t think the family can just pull the plug and fly her home. It isn’t as easy as booking her a ticket on a flight. The body is in their jurisdiction and they have to release it before anything can be done. The body would need to be processed and embalmed if it’s going on a commercial flight.

MANY autopsies conclude without a cause of death. Lots of people die and the reason is never determined. I wouldn’t imagine an autopsy elsewhere would have a different outcome.

 

[Coach]

If they knew that N was so exited to see the waterfall, why did they (police/search teams) not check that area as soon as they found this out or did her parents possibly go and check there when they found she was missing?