Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #4

[Marie A]

While we may never know why/how NQ left the resort that night, it is almost certain now that she did on her own. The results weren’t even inconclusive on the telltale signs of abduction such as bruising, sexual assault evidence and ligature marks from being tied up - they were emphatic. IIRC, members of Irish and French LE were also present at the PM so let’s be careful before we go speculating about shoddy forensics work.

I can understand NQ’s family’s disbelief and they aren’t in the frame of mind right now to process this but hopefully over time reality will be easier to accept. Anything at this point that would suggest abduction is speculation and rather wild theory that no evidence uncovered so far supports.

Best guess is NQ was excited or spooked by a noise or movement outside and went to investigate, then got lost and succumbed to starvation. The timeline by which she had been deceased compared to when she went missing matches approximately how long the human body can survive without food too. She was a developmentally disabled teenager in a new environment so while under normal circumstances she wouldn’t have wandered off, these were not normal circumstances.

The Malaysian police put everything they had into this one with over 100 people searching and it was awesome to see so many strangers show up to help a foreign vacationer.

The parents right now may want to believe there was foul play because then the guilt of letting NQ wander off and ultimately to her death is out of their hands however this really looks like a case of a tragic set of events that can’t be “blamed” on anyone.

I hope they find comfort and peace as the months go by and keep NQ’s memory alive. RIP Nora.

Well written and I concur!

 

[jamjim]

While we may never know why/how NQ left the resort that night, it is almost certain now that she did on her own. The results weren’t even inconclusive on the telltale signs of abduction such as bruising, sexual assault evidence and ligature marks from being tied up - they were emphatic. IIRC, members of Irish and French LE were also present at the PM so let’s be careful before we go speculating about shoddy forensics work.

I can understand NQ’s family’s disbelief and they aren’t in the frame of mind right now to process this but hopefully over time reality will be easier to accept. Anything at this point that would suggest abduction is speculation and rather wild theory that no evidence uncovered so far supports.

Best guess is NQ was excited or spooked by a noise or movement outside and went to investigate, then got lost and succumbed to starvation. The timeline by which she had been deceased compared to when she went missing matches approximately how long the human body can survive without food too. She was a developmentally disabled teenager in a new environment so while under normal circumstances she wouldn’t have wandered off, these were not normal circumstances.

The Malaysian police put everything they had into this one with over 100 people searching and it was awesome to see so many strangers show up to help a foreign vacationer.

The parents right now may want to believe there was foul play because then the guilt of letting NQ wander off and ultimately to her death is out of their hands however this really looks like a case of a tragic set of events that can’t be “blamed” on anyone.

I hope they find comfort and peace as the months go by and keep NQ’s memory alive. RIP Nora.

Fantastic post @ACG2x, I could have written this myself. I 100% believe that she chose to leave the accommodation that day and very sadly got lost.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

I am just wondering about something like that occurring and causing death in such a short space of time? I could understand more if she had tried to eat something which had poisoned her. Would there not have been blood visible around her mouth or face from this too?

There isn't necessarily external blood with internal injuries. Causes of death aren't always easy to determine ( for any country, hospital, or doctor anywhere in the world) and different factors can interact. Her death may have been the result of starvation, stress AND the ulcer caused by not eating.

 

[Lass from Yorkshire]

I don’t know what to think really. I thought you could go longer than 10 days without starving? Water no, but food yes?

I also can’t understand why they didn’t have someone constantly checking the waterfall if so many people were seemingly aware of her obsession with them?

Either way there has to be some comfort for the parents in having found her, traumatic as it is. RIP Nora

 

[Alyce]

dbm

 

[jamjim]

Am not completely sure what this means - whether an external person or persons has raised an issue or whether the police are just being overly scrupulous ?



Sumisha Naidu
@sumishanaidu
· 26m
JUST IN: Police to call in Dong Zhong, Koon Yew Yin and Dr. Zakir Naik for questioning after several police reports were lodged, according to the Home Ministry.

I presume that's to do with this:

Police confirm investigating Zakir Naik for incitement | Malay Mail

PSM demands IJM, Gamuda founder apologise for belittling military | Malay Mail

Separate issue I believe, not related to Nora.

 

[Liming]

DBM

 

[Alyce]

I presume that's to do with this:

Police confirm investigating Zakir Naik for incitement | Malay Mail

PSM demands IJM, Gamuda founder apologise for belittling military | Malay Mail

Separate issue I believe, not related to Nora.

Thanks for that - must engage brain more fully next time.

 

[jamjim]

Thanks for that - must engage brain more fully next time.

We all do it from time to time

 

[StarEyes]

Nora Quorin post-mortem: Teen starved and dies of intestinal rupture

Missing Nora Quorin starved in jungle

This breaks my heart. It really does. I’ve only known Nora for just over a week through our forums and it hurts. I can’t even imagine 1/10 of how devastated her poor parents and siblings are. I know they will eventually blame themselves, so I pray they all get therapy or good counseling. It’s no one’s fault. Unless evidence finds otherwise, it appears Nora was just a typically curious child and something must have caught her attention to lead her outside. With all the beauty and wildlife there, it could’ve been anything. I’m an adult and I’ve followed deer, rabbits, even squirrels that were playing and found myself in the woods without realizing I’d gone that far. For Nora, she may have panicked and went the wrong way. Then, as strangers started calling for her and moving about, she likely hid from them. I’m anorexic. I’ve never went past 4 days without eating something. When I’m out of remission, by that 3rd day, I can start to hallucinate a bit and I’m very disoriented. The hunger pains are basically gone by day 3, but I feel very weak, can faint, and mostly sleep. This is all WITH staying very hydrated. Curiosity makes me wish I knew Nora’s journey, but I also do NOT want to know. It must have been frightening, exhausting and confusing. I pray she mostly slept. I pray she passed quietly in a deep sleep with the lull of the waterfall in the background, the very one she was excited to see. I feel deep sympathy for her family and friends. I will continue to keep them in my prayers.

 

[whatizzinit]

You do know that the family was the ones that were upset about anyone searching the jungle, don’t you?? The family is the ones who only wanted them to search for signs of an abduction and find a kidnapper. They were upset at all the resources going into a jungle search they thought was useless. So let’s not talk about anyone’s help being declined when the family was the one upset over it.

Actually the mom recorded her voice to be used in the jungle searches.

 

[realanastasia]

If it's true that NQ died from an upper GI bleed, I would have suspected the body and the ground around it to have a fair amount of blood on it (AFAIK people suffering from these kinds of internal injuries tend to experience hematemesis, or throwing up blood). While it's possible she may have been able to clean herself of blood at the stream where she finally collapsed, I would be surprised if she had enough strength/wherewithal to manage that after days of starvation. I happen to think the initial report from the search party who found her was deliberately phrased to bring comfort to the family (IIRC they said she looked like she was sleeping peacefully), so I can understand why they might have omitted any reference to blood even if they'd seen it...

I also wonder if NQ might have ingested something that caused an internal perforation--tree bark or something similar that her body simply couldn't digest and which damaged her GI tract. AFAIK there's been no confirmation of her stomach contents yet--correct me if I'm wrong, though.

I don't know if it even matters at this point, but I am also wondering about the discrepant reports of COD from various MSM sources--some, like CNN, say she died of "intestinal bleeding" (Nora Quoirin probably died of intestinal bleeding, Malaysia police say - CNN) whereas others, such as the BBC, say it was an "upper GI bleed" ('No foul play' in Nora Quoirin death). I've also seen sources like the UK's "Mirror" say "intestinal rupture." (Autopsy finds Nora Quoirin died from injuries caused by starvation and stress). Are any verified medical professionals here able to speak to whether these terms are typically used interchangeably or not?

MOO/IMO

 

[Shusername]

I think it’s important to support whatever the families next steps are.

I can’t imagine what it would be like. Caring for a child with special needs every day for 15 years, they would know her inside and out. Being told she wandered out alone must be incredibly hard to accept, especially as they clearly genuinely don’t think she’d ever do that.

If they want to seek out further investigation elsewhere I’ll fully respect that- after all, they know her more than anyone and it’s important not to dismiss that.

Whatever happens, at current the likelihood is the simplest explanation provides the answer. If this proves true as it seems, I hope Nora’s family can feel some closure in this awful time.

 

[Marie A]

A few things to add:

1) NÓRA COULD HAVE SLEPT A LOT LONGER (many many hours longer) ON THE FLIGHT FROM LONDON TO MALAYSIA THAN HER FAMILY MEMBERS DID
I’m a very experienced traveler and I think there is a good chance Nóra slept a lot longer on the overseas flight than others in her family did. There are many distractions on long flights for her siblings- loads of entertaining movies to choose from, video games to play while sitting in an modern airplane seat. Nóra may well have slept soundly while her siblings and father watched movies for many hours on the flight from London to Malaysia.

2) NÓRA COULD HAVE LEFT THE HOUSE A LOT EARLIER THAN EXPECTED Per Dutch guest from Leiden C- (22) they played on the playground then went to bed early. Nóra could have been wide awake and wanted to return to playground for more play while others in her family were exhausted from jet lag and sound asleep. Noises, rustling heard by C- (22) from Leiden could very well have been Nóra out and about in the middle of the night.

3) Jet lag is REAL & UNREAL. I recently traveled with my daughter from the US to Germany. We travel to Europe regularly and have habits, rules we follow to lessen/avoid jet lag but on this particular trip we broke our own rule and took a short afternoon nap at our hotel. Neither of us are particularly heavy sleepers but I was VERY alarmed to wake up and realize that our room had been entered while we slept and a laundered sweater (left with front desk at check in) placed on a closet door just two feet (mere inches) from us without our knowledge.
I was very alarmed because I often carry large sums of cash with me and valuables because of the nature of my business. Thereby I always make use of hotel room safes when available. Because we were simply dosing off for a short nap, I didn’t place my cash or valuables in the safe yet. We could have been robbed blind without our knowledge because of our very deep JET LAGGED sleep. We fortunately were not robbed but it could very easily have happened.
I am quite certain hotel staff knocked on our door before entering our room and we were so jet lagged we didn’t hear them. After they saw us fully clothed and sound asleep on top of the bed they decided to hang the sweater on the closet door - inches from us- before leaving the room.
I only mention this because I can clearly see HOW EASILY NÓRA COULD HAVE LEFT THE HOLIDAY HOME WITHOUT ANYONE NOTICING. Her family were in deep, jet lagged sleep and she was moving about nearby with nobody aware.

 

[HouseRules]

Not an MD but work in medical and my understanding is that a intestinal rupture would more be considered a GI perforation, which essentially is a hole somewhere in the GI tract that allows contents of GI tract into other areas where they shouldn't be and often causes infection that can lead to death. A GI bleed on the other hand involves blood vessels rupturing and subsequent bleeding, which can also lead to death. IMHO, they aren't the same thing but I can see how they could be confused and used interchangeably. The fact that it is mentioned by at least one source that it was located and identified specifically as an upper GI bleed leads me to believe this is more likely what is actually on the report. All my own opinions, of course.

 

[FrostOwl]

My father-in law died from an intestinal rupture, he wasn’t eating just bits here and there and he had mental health issues and was going through a very stressful time (don’t really wanna talk about his personal stuff). But what I am going to say is the day he died he was acting drunk (no alcohol) tho. He was like stumbling and knocking things over. He then collapsed and lots of blood came out of his mouth, it was like he was being sick blood. I’m just wondering why the hikers didn’t pick up on the amount of blood that would have been present.

It sounds as if your father-in-law had a bleeding in either the esophagus and/or stomach (the ventricle), which are parts of the gastro-intestinal system, and a bleeding there can cause vomiting blood. In the case of Nora, the autopsy only mentions internal bleeding in her intestine, not in upper part of her gastro-intestinal system, it could have been from somewhere in her smaller intestine, which is somewhere between 3 and 5 meters, and in that case not easily vomited up, and thus not showing any traces of blood in or around her mouth, just blood around her intestines, showing up when doing the autopsy.

 

[Kelumbo]

It sounds as if your father-in-law had a bleeding in either the esophagus and/or stomach (the ventricle), which are parts of the gastro-intestinal system, and a bleeding there can cause vomiting blood. In the case of Nora, the autopsy only mentions internal bleeding in her intestine, not in what part of her gastro-intestinal system, it could have been from somewhere in her smaller intestine, which is somewhere between 3 and 5 meters, and in that case not easily vomited up, and thus not showing any traces of blood in or around her mouth, just blood around her intestines, showing up when doing the autopsy.

He wasn’t actually being sick, by the time the blood was coming out of his mouth he was unconscious. The blood was just gushing out

 

[FrostOwl]

He wasn’t actually being sick, by the time the blood was coming out of his mouth he was unconscious. The blood was just gushing out

If so, it was likely a upper gastro-intestinal bleeding, must have been shocking for you to see.

 

[Candidateforwax]

I don’t know what to think really. I thought you could go longer than 10 days without starving? Water no, but food yes?

I also can’t understand why they didn’t have someone constantly checking the waterfall if so many people were seemingly aware of her obsession with them?

Either way there has to be some comfort for the parents in having found her, traumatic as it is. RIP Nora

Is it possible Nora didn't drink water, or at least not enough? Do we know what the contents of her stomach were? She had difficulty understanding concepts: is it possible that it didn't occur to her that she could drink the water around her?

ETA: If she was drinking water but died from upper gastrointestinal bleeding is it possible that her stomach was rejecting it in her final days?

 

[RachelZachary]

I wonder if there was someone that the family met when they arrived that the parents/children were unsure of?