Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #5

[Kubirai]

DBM ... duplicate

 

[dotr]

An inexperienced team of civilian hikers found Nora, after becoming aware that she really wanted to see the waterfall.

They hiked towards that waterfall, and saw her body. Check the video of them explaining the discovery, and compare with news articles.

My opinion is that there was NO search of that area after Nora came to drink water for the final time.

Anyone who passed by the area would have seen her immediately, just like these hikers.

rbbm.
If she was not immediately spotted, other strong clues should have been noticed by people and particularly by wild life, imo speculation.
'She looked liked she was asleep' — Hiker describes the moment he found Nora Quoirin's body
"The team followed a trail through the plantation when one member smelled a strong odour emanating from the jungle."
"The searchers subsequently discovered Nora’s remains beside a waterfall".

 

[Kubirai]

rbbm.
If she was not immediately spotted, other strong clues should have been noticed by people and particularly by wild life, imo speculation.
'She looked liked she was asleep' — Hiker describes the moment he found Nora Quoirin's body
"The team followed a trail through the plantation when one member smelled a strong odour emanating from the jungle."
"The searchers subsequently discovered Nora’s remains beside a waterfall".

Yes of course, the smell would have been noticeable within 24 hours in that hot and humid environment.

So, it is likely that NO searcher passed near her body in the previous 24-72 hours.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes but LE said that they only searched that area the first week. Then they moved back in closer to the resort. Perfectly timed so they missed her before she arrived at that spot and didn’t search there after she did.



Yes, exactly questioning them FURTHER. Because they had been questioned already. So they were allowed to be questioned just not indefinitely.

It was probably very stressful for them and they likely had to answer questions in the beginning.
If they were asleep and didn't wake up until their father discovered Nora missing, they probably would not have been much help anyway. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

No second PM then. I thought there were still questions to be answered.

It says they are not giving any details regarding their stance on the investigation. They were going to wait for the test results before making the decision, and we haven't heard that the results are back yet, have we? There probably won't be any news to report unless they find out something new. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

What became of the toxicology and DNA tests?

News media coverage seems to have stopped/dried up.

Are investigations still ongoing or is this a case we the public are unlikely to hear about again?

The toxicology report can take 4-6 weeks or even longer.
It has only been a couple of weeks, so it could still be awhile before the final autopsy report.
They only released the preliminary report, which usually just tells us the COD and manner of death. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes of course, the smell would have been noticeable within 24 hours in that hot and humid environment.

So, it is likely that NO searcher passed near her body in the previous 24-72 hours.

I thought by that time they had almost 350 searchers in the area.
Police said they thought she may have been mobile when they searched that area, and that's how they missed her.
But I can't imagine her moving that fast with her disability and considering how weak and sick she must have been.
If she had been dead for four days when they found her, I can't see how cadaver dogs missed the scent. Even after two days I would think they would have alerted. The search area was only a couple of square miles.

There may have been other factors that hindered the smell. I'm not sure how close to a body they would have to be, but I've heard cases where they have alerted on a spot a body was put down for only seconds after having been dead for only a few hours. Those dogs are pretty amazing. Imo

 

[Rosegold68]

I thought cadaver dogs detected the chemical a dead body released

Not the smell of a decaying body

2 different things

 

[MrJames]

A vulnerable young teenager with a LD went missing in the jungle presumably alone and extremely afraid and died under tragic circumstances. I hope that something is revealed soon as to what really happened to N because I feel that the people of the world should know the true facts and that this is also owed to N – My opinions only.

 

[MsBetsy]

I thought cadaver dogs detected the chemical a dead body released

Not the smell of a decaying body

2 different things

Yes, there are apparently up to 200 different chemicals released at various stages of decomposition, from what I understand. They are what causes the odors in a decaying body. Dogs have been able to recover bones that have been buried for years. The bacteria is absorbed into the environment which can be detected years later, if they are trained to detect those particular odors.

Some are realeased almost immediately after death, some are emitted hours later, but what causes the putrid odor that is so offensive occurs later on in decomposition, usually in the bloat stage.

This is all according to what I have read so I don't know all the specifics, but there is also bacteria in the environment that can release some of the same chemicals, which can hinder the dogs ability or cause them to alert in the wrong place. Imo

 

[MrJames]

Does anyone know if there are any caves, underground cave systems, tunnels or bunkers near where she was found?

 

[LietKynes]

A vulnerable young teenager with a LD went missing in the jungle presumably alone and extremely afraid and died under tragic circumstances. I hope that something is revealed soon as to what really happened to N because I feel that the people of the world should know the true facts and that this is also owed to N – My opinions only.

Is foul play suspected ?

 

[Angleterre]

No second PM then. I thought there were still questions to be answered.

There may have been a second pm done by independent pathologist/UK/FRENCH pathologist at the same time that the original PM was conducted. It’s unusual but it can and does happen if time is not a friend and the need to preserve evidence is of a pressing nature

 

[tresir2012]

Yes, there are apparently up to 200 different chemicals released at various stages of decomposition, from what I understand. They are what causes the odors in a decaying body. Dogs have been able to recover bones that have been buried for years. The bacteria is absorbed into the environment which can be detected years later, if they are trained to detect those particular odors.

Some are realeased almost immediately after death, some are emitted hours later, but what causes the putrid odor that is so offensive occurs later on in decomposition, usually in the bloat stage.

This is all according to what I have read so I don't know all the specifics, but there is also bacteria in the environment that can release some of the same chemicals, which can hinder the dogs ability or cause them to alert in the wrong place. Imo

What Cadaver Dogs Are Sniffing for When They Look for a Body | Inverse

Interesting article explaining how cadaver dogs are trained.

 

[Angleterre]

Yes, there are apparently up to 200 different chemicals released at various stages of decomposition, from what I understand. They are what causes the odors in a decaying body. Dogs have been able to recover bones that have been buried for years. The bacteria is absorbed into the environment which can be detected years later, if they are trained to detect those particular odors.

Some are realeased almost immediately after death, some are emitted hours later, but what causes the putrid odor that is so offensive occurs later on in decomposition, usually in the bloat stage.

This is all according to what I have read so I don't know all the specifics, but there is also bacteria in the environment that can release some of the same chemicals, which can hinder the dogs ability or cause them to alert in the wrong place. Imo

From my personal experience the offensive smell of a dead body which incidentally, once it penetrates your nasal cavity, is that bad and that distinguishable to any other smell that you will ever be subjected to, can occur at various times of decomposition and is as a result of various factors which include temperature and humidity and vegetation and location etc so no one decomposing body is the same timescale in terms of when the odour is Most pungent if you know what I mean

 

[Angleterre]

5 key blunders in hunt for tragic Nora slammed by Maddie investigator

This may have been posted already but has some valid points about the investigation.

I’m sorry but most of what is written in that article is very poor and not totally factual

 

[MsBetsy]

What Cadaver Dogs Are Sniffing for When They Look for a Body | Inverse

Interesting article explaining how cadaver dogs are trained.

Thanks! That was the case I was referring to in Bucks County where the body was sniffed out more than 12 feet underground!
I had not read that article, but it's interesting the same smells are found in urine and human waste.
I would think the dogs might have alerted in those areas if they were anywhere near them. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

From my personal experience the offensive smell of a dead body which incidentally, once it penetrates your nasal cavity, is that bad and that distinguishable to any other smell that you will ever be subjected to, can occur at various times of decomposition and is as a result of various factors which include temperature and humidity and vegetation and location etc so no one decomposing body is the same timescale in terms of when the odour is Most pungent if you know what I mean

Yes, a body left outside in warm weather will decompose much faster than if buried or in colder weather. Insect activity will definitely speed it up, but from the sound of it her body was not badly decomposed. They described it as being intact and in good condition. The hikers said she looked like she was sleeping. Imo

 

[tresir2012]

Thanks! That was the case I was referring to in Bucks County where the body was sniffed out more than 12 feet underground!
I had not read that article, but it's interesting the same smells are found in urine and human waste.
I would think the dogs might have alerted in those areas if they were anywhere near them. Imo

It seems they only searched in that area in the first 7 days and it seems she was still alive then according to the post mortem, which explains why cadaver dogs would not have found her however regular dogs did pick up her scent but lost it I believe after the first 100 metres. I know that cadaver dogs can find human remains even in deep sea water (e.g the case of the Swedish reporter Kim Wall who was killed on a submariine, dismembered and disposed of at sea ) and are really remarkable.

 

[MsBetsy]

Is foul play suspected ?

Not at this point. They are waiting for the DNA and toxicology results to decide whether or not to continue a criminal investigation.
They have been conducting a parallel criminal investigation all along, though. Imo