Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #5

[tresir2012]

I’m sorry but most of what is written in that article is very poor and not totally factual

You don't have to be sorry, I didn't write it, I'm just posting it. Which bits are not factual?

 

[MsBetsy]

It seems they only searched in that area in the first 7 days and it seems she was still alive then according to the post mortem, which explains why cadaver dogs would not have found her however regular dogs did pick up her scent but lost it I believe after the first 100 metres. I know that cadaver dogs can find human remains even in deep sea water (e.g the case of the Swedish reporter Kim Wall who was killed on a submariine, dismembered and disposed of at sea ) and are really remarkable.

I wish I could find it now but I thought it was mentioned in an article about 2 or 3 days before they found her that they were using cadaver dogs.
I could be wrong, though. I wish we knew exactly what days they were and where.
It's still strange to me that the scent dogs in the beginning picked up her scent near the resort and then the trail stopped outside the jungle.
It seems likely since she was barefoot that they would have found it somewhere in the jungle if that's where she went. Why did it end so abruptly? Imo

 

[Angleterre]

You don't have to be sorry, I didn't write it, I'm just posting it. Which bits are not factual?

Firstly that the local police did act within the crucial time period and were certainly active within 12 hours, secondly they did treat it as both a missing person and a potential abduction and thirdly they did their best to gather evidence from witnesses of which there were few and to create a timeline. Furthermore, it wasn’t hampered by the need to protect tourism in the area as can be seen by the sterling and transparent work and investigation undertaken by the Malaysian Police and also it was not inept to utilise Nora’s mum’s voice via loud speaker to draw her out and is one of many lines of creative investigation. He alluded to the fact that his points made were important in the event of an abduction but that’s incorrect because there was no evidence of abduction and also because they were open minded to both possibilities of abduction and missing voluntarily so I don’t agree with him . And let’s not get started on the ALLEGED abduction of Madeleine McCann

 

[MsBetsy]

You don't have to be sorry, I didn't write it, I'm just posting it. Which bits are not factual?

Well, first of all, that investigator was not involved in this case so I assume he is making comments based on what he has read.
He may have a good point about their actions in the beginning, but LE was acting according to policy and unfortunately they don't have the same procedures as some other countries where it is more common for children to go missing. Imo

 

[tresir2012]

I wish I could find it now but I thought it was mentioned in an article about 2 or 3 days before they found her that they were using cadaver dogs.
I could be wrong, though. I wish we knew exactly what days they were and where.
It's still strange to me that the scent dogs in the beginning picked up her scent near the resort and then the trail stopped outside the jungle.
It seems likely since she was barefoot that they would have found it somewhere in the jungle if that's where she went. Why did it end so abruptly? Imo

I wondered if she walked in the river which runs alongside the Dusun boundary.

 

[tresir2012]

Firstly that the local police did act within the crucial time period and were certainly active within 12 hours, secondly they did treat it as both a missing person and a potential abduction and thirdly they did their best to gather evidence from witnesses of which there were few and to create a timeline. Furthermore, it wasn’t hampered by the need to protect tourism in the area as can be seen by the sterling and transparent work and investigation undertaken by the Malaysian Police and also it was not inept to utilise Nora’s mum’s voice via loud speaker to draw her out and is one of many lines of creative investigation. He alluded to the fact that his points made were important in the event of an abduction but that’s incorrect because there was no evidence of abduction and also because they were open minded to both possibilities of abduction and missing voluntarily so I don’t agree with him . And let’s not get started on the ALLEGED abduction of Madeleine McCann

I think his main point was that it should have been treated as an abduction ie a crime, straightaway, and that was what the parents wanted too. I agree with that. Also, the vulnerability of Nora should have been paramount. I am not clear how the use of shamans helped so I agree there too. Did they use search helicopters for example, interview staff, use drones etc. His point about tourism is valid I think. He is entitled to his POV. We are entitled to agree or disagree. JMO.

 

[tresir2012]

Well, first of all, that investigator was not involved in this case so I assume he is making comments based on what he has read.
He may have a good point about their actions in the beginning, but LE was acting according to policy and unfortunately they don't have the same procedures as some other countries where it is more common for children to go missing. Imo

True regarding making comments based on what he has read but that is what we are all doing too. Agree about policy, but policy can be criticised and can be changed. MOO.

 

[Angleterre]

I think his main point was that it should have been treated as an abduction ie a crime, straightaway, and that was what the parents wanted too. I agree with that. Also, the vulnerability of Nora should have been paramount. I am not clear how the use of shamans helped so I agree there too. Did they use search helicopters for example, interview staff, use drones etc. His point about tourism is valid I think. He is entitled to his POV. We are entitled to agree or disagree. JMO.

Yes exactly, we are all entitled to our POV and to agree or disagree and that is what I expressed, to which you asked why so I gave you my ‘why’....

 

[TristanP]

I wondered if she walked in the river which runs alongside the Dusun boundary.

I think it would be likely she’d walk in water when possible, because it would be easier on her feet than the jungle floor? But I don’t know what the riverbed was like. If it was rocky that may have made it worse than the jungle floor.

 

[tresir2012]

Yes exactly, we are all entitled to our POV and to agree or disagree and that is what I expressed, to which you asked why so I gave you my ‘why’....

Yes and thanks, good to know opinions.

 

[MrJames]

Does anyone know if there are any caves, underground cave systems, tunnels or bunker/s near where she was found? - The reason i ask is because she may have been temporarily hiding or been hidden by someone in one of those places, i don't know but it may be a possibility.

 

[MsBetsy]

True regarding making comments based on what he has read but that is what we are all doing too. Agree about policy, but policy can be criticised and can be changed. MOO.

Yes, a poster mentioned earlier that it would be great if they improved their procedures and policies regarding missing children.
Apparently there are four children who go missing everyday in Malaysia.
The first 24 hours are crucial.
I don't see the harm in treating every case as a potential crime. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Does anyone know if there are any caves, underground cave systems, tunnels or bunker/s near where she was found? - The reason i ask is because she may have been temporarily hiding or been hidden by someone in one of those places, i don't know but it may be a possibility.

Welcome to Websleuths, Mr James!!!
Good question. I believe there is a local here who may be able to answer that. I can't remember their name but hopefully they will see your post.
I'm sure there are plenty of good hiding spots in the jungle but I haven't seen any mention of caves or underground tunnels.

 

[Angleterre]

Yes, a poster mentioned earlier that it would be great if they improved their procedures and policies regarding missing children.
Apparently there are four children who go missing everyday in Malaysia.
The first 24 hours are crucial.
I don't see the harm in treating every case as a potential crime. Imo

I agree
It should be treated as a missing person AND a crime and be open minded to both possibilities once a child is reported missing so that the crucial ‘golden hour’ of preservation of evidence is maximised in order to further the investigation and the subsequent 23 hours after that. Edited to add, it’s not just the first 24 hours that are crucial but they are the most crucial in terms of recovery of a child.

 

[Lilibet]

Does anyone know if there are any caves, underground cave systems, tunnels or bunker/s near where she was found? - The reason i ask is because she may have been temporarily hiding or been hidden by someone in one of those places, i don't know but it may be a possibility.

Welcome to Websleuths, Mr James!!!
Good question. I believe there is a local here who may be able to answer that. I can't remember their name but hopefully they will see your post.
I'm sure there are plenty of good hiding spots in the jungle but I haven't seen any mention of caves or underground tunnels.

I think Nora would have been easy to hide...making it a game of Hide and Seek perhaps. “Don’t answer if you hear your name. Let’s see how long it takes to find you.” Her sense of time may not have been very good and she may have been quite compliant and helpless to find help. Sadly, we may never know, but I feel someone knows.
JMO

 

[dotr]

I think Nora would have been easy to hide...making it a game of Hide and Seek perhaps. “Don’t answer if you hear your name. Let’s see how long it takes to find you.” Her sense of time may not have been very good and she may have been quite compliant and helpless to find help. Sadly, we may never know, but I feel someone knows.
JMO

Guessing that Nora was a picky eater prior to Malaysia, and if in fact she was held hostage, she likely would refuse to eat at all, perhaps explaining why starvation led to her death.
imo, speculation.

 

[PastTense]

I agree
It should be treated as a missing person AND a crime and be open minded to both possibilities once a child is reported missing so that the crucial ‘golden hour’ of preservation of evidence is maximised in order to further the investigation and the subsequent 23 hours after that.

They are incompatible: For a missing person you want hundreds of local people looking all over. But hundreds of local people looking all over are also going to destroy evidence of any crime. So if you want to treat it as a crime you only have trained law enforcement people doing the search.

 

[Angleterre]

They are incompatible: For a missing person you want hundreds of local people looking all over. But hundreds of local people looking all over are also going to destroy evidence of any crime. So if you want to treat it as a crime you only have trained law enforcement people doing the search.

Yes I know that and I didn’t say otherwise re the search, I am talking about treating it as a dual approach
They are not incompatible because treating it as a crime of Abduction and a missing person is not only about a search- it’s about far more than that as I have personal experience of managing Such an investigation myself

 

[MrJames]

If she did not have an LD and mobility problems then perhaps she may have ventured out to the edge of the forest/jungle and then back again just to check it out. From what I have read I find it hard to believe in my opinion that she would have left the accommodation on her own. I cannot imagine her venturing very far either if she did leave the apartment, because of her various limitations associated with her LD and because she was very close and dependent upon her family – The above are just my opinions and how I see it.

 

[cocomisty]

The family have stopped the fund and put a statement on it today.
Against WS TOS to link to it. The donations have helped them to employ extra assistance and expert help also money will be donated to LBT to help launch operations for Irish Citizens in Nora's memory.

ETA the Euro fund have also added a statement in French it is currently still active.