Manorville Bodies: A Second Killer? Latest Remains found 02/17/2012

[Peter Brendt]

It doesn't sound like you even know the definition of physics.
Its less than 30 miles, and drifting that far without a storm is an everyday occurance, let alone historical flooding for the barrier island. You do not even want to get me started on what i know about the bay and currents. They drifted to blue point beach from somewhere ss, sure maybe he threw the legs in the bay in sayville or anywhere else along the bay, but seeing as he was putting the other identifyiable parts on jones island and the timing of the find, id have to say they came from the shorline of jones island down to bp beach. But i guess we could debate the sk dropping them from a hot air balloon or building a massive hydrolic slingshot if u want....

Well, you got me there. I'm a diver for now over twenty-five years, I've been under water in more currents than you have ever read about. And as part of my university times, because in IT was back then considered an engineering major in Germany, I had also basic physics. And so on and so on. So what do I know about water? Truth, come down to the carpet again, get a good formula book and do some math. Whatever transported those legs was current, not wind! Because they would have projected far enough above the surface to have an pressure area big enough to "sail". Which, by the way, is the only little thing, that would support your theory unless you make us believe, things go, driven by the wind, against the wind. Now that would be really a new kind of physics.
And the reason why I don't by your theory is, the signature of AC, Manorville and LISK are too different and in wrong chronological order. Which has nothing to do with physics in the first place. So please, <modsnip> return to reality.

 

[the quiet girl]

Peter is correct about rip tides being the power source when in water, ask any one who ever got stuck in one.
I don't know what storms are like anymore at Jones Beach, yet a NorEaster, like I said. My original thought was things out of water however. I will still stand by it is possible, imo.
Then why were we on this train of thought? :waitasec:

 

[truthspider]

Well, you got me there. I'm a diver for now over twenty-five years, I've been under water in more currents than you have ever read about. And as part of my university times, because in IT was back then considered an engineering major in Germany, I had also basic physics. And so on and so on. So what do I know about water? Truth, come down to the carpet again, get a good formula book and do some math. Whatever transported those legs was current, not wind! Because they would have projected far enough above the surface to have an pressure area big enough to "sail". Which, by the way, is the only little thing, that would support your theory unless you make us believe, things go, driven by the wind, against the wind. Now that would be really a new kind of physics.
And the reason why I don't by your theory is, the signature of AC, Manorville and LISK are too different and in wrong chronological order. Which has nothing to do with physics in the first place. So please, <modsnip> return to reality.

Since we know the legs washed up on the bayside of bluepoint beach, how do you all propose they got there? They certainly drifted there from somewhere, and for all your sillyness about not believing me that the legs drifted there, why dont you argue that the legs that washed up in cold spring harbor on the north shore and the body in a suitcase in mamaroneck, ny couldn't have drifted there?????

Please tell me the difference, I will wait.....


Peter, admittedly I cant tell if you are being funny with the wind comment. And my question about contesting drift was more for SS.

 

[Clem Snide]

Kids! if you don't stop fighting I'm going to turn this car around. You hear me?

 

[Reannan]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Kids! if you don't stop fighting I'm going to turn this car around. You hear me?

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[ynotdivein]

Dunno about anyone else, but I am learning a lot from these posts about the interplay of wind and current, the topography of the area, the timelines at hand, and etc.

Please address each other respectfully, as we are all learning from one another's areas of expertise. We don't all have to agree about our theories of the case, but we can agree to disagree with respect.

:tyou:

 

[inspctrgadget]

I am assuming it because Jane Doe 9098 was definitely discarded within this sanctuary via the service road, he could not have thrown or carried her legs from the parkway deep enough in that they would drift away in a storm surge, that is my opinion. Her legs in a bag managed to escape the brush and drift to blue point beach, while the entire sanctuary area was submerged in the 96 noreaster. If he used the road in 1995 why would he not use it to discard JD#10?

The service road itself is only about 100 ft off the parkway at that point, if you are going to throw a bag containing a head, might as well not be seen doing it, and we know that some of the remains off the parkway were "partially buried" but I don't know if it can be determined whether that was from a shovel or simply windswept sand.

TruthSpider, let's say you're right. Let's say that the SK knew about the road.

Check this out...

http://www.cruisinggays.com/wantagh/cruising-areas/48171-jfk-bird-sanctuary/

I attached some images of what I believe to be dudes hooking up in the parking lot of the bird sanctuary. Notice how these cars are parked backwards, probably to spot the police if they drive up on them.

I don't see any barrier that would restrict someone from going further down the road into the bird sanctuary. And there is only 1 exit - your "service road" entrance.

I can tell you I grew up near this area, spent many days at the beach and crawled all over the dunes there at Zach's Bay and I never knew that "service road" was there, or that it connected all the way to Tobay Beach. So I think if the serial killer DID in fact know about that service road, there are only two explanations - he was either an avid birder or a deviant homosexual. I'm not using the word "deviant" negatively. It's just that hooking up with random strangers in broad daylight in public is risky (STDs, arrest). But we know our serial killer takes risks, so it somewhat fits. Perhaps using the bird sanctuary as a dumping ground excited him sexually.

Now, I've still got a problem with how JD-9098's head ended up close to the parkway, but I've looked carefully at the map of those trails where people "Get out of [their] car and walk thru the many trails on the south side of parking area. Very cruisy and many private areas."

It seems to me that it IS possible to make you're way over the canals. There appear to be little "land bridges" on all of the north/south canals, so my assumption is that this area is actually walkable, dissimilar from the "thicket" closer to the road. So the SK could have parked in the lot, waited till all the cars were gone, walked south through the trails and deposited JD-9098's remains in the "thicket" closer to the highway. See attached file with red indicator line for a route that I believe he could have taken.

Somehow, her legs made their way into the water. It doesn't really matter how - maybe a Nor'easter flooding, maybe he threw them off a bridge. The relevant information here is the possibility that the SK knew about that road, and if so, he's probably extremely active in the "underground" gay lifestyle. After all, there was a dead transvestite found in his dumping grounds.

All of this is very speculative. It's possible that the SK never knew about that road and actually made these two dumps from Ocean Parkway. But I must admit, the road that TruthSpider is talking about is very specific. Someone would have had to travel that road to even know it was there. And it's the only "road" for miles, so pulling over randomly right there would be a stunning coincidence. The placement of a woman's head (JD#10) at the terminus of a road frequented by homosexuals seems completely coincidental or highly relevant.

So now we know (or at least can logically infer) that the serial killer is gay, assuming that the map location of where JD#10 was found is correct. He's probably still "in the closet" if he's resorting to these types of rendezvous.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I'm not sure I understand how a person can "logically infer" from the information provided or the information available, the perp is gay?

The bird sanctuary is a gay cruising spot according to One website.

The perp could very well be gay, I don't know but, I don't think we have enough information about the perp to make a conclusion about his sexual orientation yet.

JMO.


P.S.
Am I missing something?

 

[truthspider]

TruthSpider, let's say you're right. Let's say that the SK knew about the road.

Check this out...

http://www.cruisinggays.com/wantagh/cruising-areas/48171-jfk-bird-sanctuary/

I attached some images of what I believe to be dudes hooking up in the parking lot of the bird sanctuary. Notice how these cars are parked backwards, probably to spot the police if they drive up on them.

I don't see any barrier that would restrict someone from going further down the road into the bird sanctuary. And there is only 1 exit - your "service road" entrance.

I can tell you I grew up near this area, spent many days at the beach and crawled all over the dunes there at Zach's Bay and I never knew that "service road" was there, or that it connected all the way to Tobay Beach. So I think if the serial killer DID in fact know about that service road, there are only two explanations - he was either an avid birder or a deviant homosexual. I'm not using the word "deviant" negatively. It's just that hooking up with random strangers in broad daylight in public is risky (STDs, arrest). But we know our serial killer takes risks, so it somewhat fits. Perhaps using the bird sanctuary as a dumping ground excited him sexually.

Now, I've still got a problem with how JD-9098's head ended up close to the parkway, but I've looked carefully at the map of those trails where people "Get out of [their] car and walk thru the many trails on the south side of parking area. Very cruisy and many private areas."

It seems to me that it IS possible to make you're way over the canals. There appear to be little "land bridges" on all of the north/south canals, so my assumption is that this area is actually walkable, dissimilar from the "thicket" closer to the road. So the SK could have parked in the lot, waited till all the cars were gone, walked south through the trails and deposited JD-9098's remains in the "thicket" closer to the highway. See attached file with red indicator line for a route that I believe he could have taken.

Somehow, her legs made their way into the water. It doesn't really matter how - maybe a Nor'easter flooding, maybe he threw them off a bridge. The relevant information here is the possibility that the SK knew about that road, and if so, he's probably extremely active in the "underground" gay lifestyle. After all, there was a dead transvestite found in his dumping grounds.

All of this is very speculative. It's possible that the SK never knew about that road and actually made these two dumps from Ocean Parkway. But I must admit, the road that TruthSpider is talking about is very specific. Someone would have had to travel that road to even know it was there. And it's the only "road" for miles, so pulling over randomly right there would be a stunning coincidence. The placement of a woman's head (JD#10) at the terminus of a road frequented by homosexuals seems completely coincidental or highly relevant.

So now we know (or at least can logically infer) that the serial killer is gay, assuming that the map location of where JD#10 was found is correct. He's probably still "in the closet" if he's resorting to these types of rendezvous.

You kill me IG, (in a good way) you are one crazy *advertiser censored* and I do say that with the highest respect for your brain! I'm cracking up but I don't think that is what you intended, yet at the same time I have to debate the possibilities you mention....
:toast:

I also think that it is possible that someone using ocean parkway with the intention of dumping would likely at first be very cautious, and not be sure of where it was "ok" to even pull over as every other drive is a gated entrance. I think that he would intuitivle pull into drives to explore and look for the best location to dump. I think this road would be a natural fit for our thoughtful adversary who likes the woods.

And as for the gay thing, I don't know man, you sound pretty strange describing homosexuals as deviant. Are you relegious?

Anyway, I think we know the perp isn't a fan of homosexuality since he bashed in the trannys head... only common sense required for that dedcution...IMO...

I certainly hope you join me on this Sundays WebSleuths radio talkshow to chat about the LISK investigation...
Please, please, please I need to meet you even if only 'on air' during the radio show. I dearly want the opportunity to pick your brain and hope you join us.

finkle, einhorn, finkle, einhorn...

 

[otto]

Well, you got me there. I'm a diver for now over twenty-five years, I've been under water in more currents than you have ever read about. And as part of my university times, because in IT was back then considered an engineering major in Germany, I had also basic physics. And so on and so on. So what do I know about water? Truth, come down to the carpet again, get a good formula book and do some math. Whatever transported those legs was current, not wind! Because they would have projected far enough above the surface to have an pressure area big enough to "sail". Which, by the way, is the only little thing, that would support your theory unless you make us believe, things go, driven by the wind, against the wind. Now that would be really a new kind of physics.
And the reason why I don't by your theory is, the signature of AC, Manorville and LISK are too different and in wrong chronological order. Which has nothing to do with physics in the first place. So please, <modsnip> return to reality.

I'm fairly new to the case, so please be patient with me. If the cases are not connected, why were body parts from Manorville in the same location as bodies in burlap? I see a similarity in the wrapping of the bodies - plastic for water, burlap for land - almost like an evolution in the mind of the serial murderer.

How do you explain the body parts from one person found in two different locations; one of which subsequently produced additional bodies?

Or ... am I confused about which cases you are saying are not connected?

 

[the quiet girl]

snipped...
Anyway, I think we know the perp isn't a fan of homosexuality since he bashed in the trannys head... only common sense required for that dedcution...IMO....

...snipped

Well plenty of those opposed to homosexuality in the news do seem to get caught with there err pants down in a scandal of homosexuality. no?

 

[Simply Caustic]

TruthSpider, let's say you're right. Let's say that the SK knew about the road.

Check this out...

http://www.cruisinggays.com/wantagh/cruising-areas/48171-jfk-bird-sanctuary/

I attached some images of what I believe to be dudes hooking up in the parking lot of the bird sanctuary. Notice how these cars are parked backwards, probably to spot the police if they drive up on them.

I don't see any barrier that would restrict someone from going further down the road into the bird sanctuary. And there is only 1 exit - your "service road" entrance.

I can tell you I grew up near this area, spent many days at the beach and crawled all over the dunes there at Zach's Bay and I never knew that "service road" was there, or that it connected all the way to Tobay Beach. So I think if the serial killer DID in fact know about that service road, there are only two explanations - he was either an avid birder or a deviant homosexual. I'm not using the word "deviant" negatively. It's just that hooking up with random strangers in broad daylight in public is risky (STDs, arrest). But we know our serial killer takes risks, so it somewhat fits. Perhaps using the bird sanctuary as a dumping ground excited him sexually.

Now, I've still got a problem with how JD-9098's head ended up close to the parkway, but I've looked carefully at the map of those trails where people "Get out of [their] car and walk thru the many trails on the south side of parking area. Very cruisy and many private areas."

It seems to me that it IS possible to make you're way over the canals. There appear to be little "land bridges" on all of the north/south canals, so my assumption is that this area is actually walkable, dissimilar from the "thicket" closer to the road. So the SK could have parked in the lot, waited till all the cars were gone, walked south through the trails and deposited JD-9098's remains in the "thicket" closer to the highway. See attached file with red indicator line for a route that I believe he could have taken.

Somehow, her legs made their way into the water. It doesn't really matter how - maybe a Nor'easter flooding, maybe he threw them off a bridge. The relevant information here is the possibility that the SK knew about that road, and if so, he's probably extremely active in the "underground" gay lifestyle. After all, there was a dead transvestite found in his dumping grounds.

All of this is very speculative. It's possible that the SK never knew about that road and actually made these two dumps from Ocean Parkway. But I must admit, the road that TruthSpider is talking about is very specific. Someone would have had to travel that road to even know it was there. And it's the only "road" for miles, so pulling over randomly right there would be a stunning coincidence. The placement of a woman's head (JD#10) at the terminus of a road frequented by homosexuals seems completely coincidental or highly relevant.

So now we know (or at least can logically infer) that the serial killer is gay, assuming that the map location of where JD#10 was found is correct. He's probably still "in the closet" if he's resorting to these types of rendezvous.

Enlarged & highlighted by me (above).

I'm new to the LISK threads - so I'm still catching up on several threads and familiarizing myself with the facts.

I must have missed something, somewhere - how can we infer the above, enlarged portion? Thanks in advance.

 

[*Indigo*]

Great analysis thanks Truth Spider, Peter Brendt, The Quiet Girl and Inspector Gadget!!!
Just wanted to add:
Or he could be bisexual ??

 

[Aleph]

Just FYI and because respect for the victims is so important, the trans community really doesn't like the word "tranny." Or "*advertiser censored*," which is another one commonly found in *advertiser censored* but considered very insulting.

That being said, a biological male could be dressed in women's clothing for any number of reasons. There are big differences between a transvestite, a drag queen, or a trans woman. And though it is unlikely, that victim could have been dressed by the SK after death. We really don't know his or her situation, which makes it all the more difficult to talk about, really.

 

[still]

Anyone involved in gates, fences, landscaping, hunting, birding etc.and a local would feel comfortable driving around this area...

 

[Seaslug44]

Please take notice to the two attachments. The first is a snapshot of the bay within seven miles of the sanctuary. Notice that this section of the bay has less water than it does islands/grasslands. The second image has a white circle on the left where the sanctuary is and a white circle on the far right where the legs washed up.

I don't have time to get into how the tides/currents work in this bay except to say that there are no currents that run all the way from Zach's bay in the West to Davis Park in the East because there are three inlets that effect the currents here (Jones Inlet, Fire Island Inlet & Moriches Inlet).

If you don't think it's 30 miles, simply look at the towns just north of both locations (Seaford & Bellport) and do a Mapquest to see the distance between the two towns.

 

[Aleph]

Just about any isolated park located near an urban center will be used as a gay cruising spot so, while interesting, I'm not sure if this is significant. Especially since the SK is obviously primarily interested in women.

It may sound odd, but most men interested in cross-dressers and/or trans women are straight, not gay. Gay men are generally not attracted to people who look like women or who have breasts, for instance. The actual genitalia is secondary.

 

[the quiet girl]

Enlarged & highlighted by me (above).

I'm new to the LISK threads - so I'm still catching up on several threads and familiarizing myself with the facts.

I must have missed something, somewhere - how can we infer the above, enlarged portion? Thanks in advance.

We don't.
That post you quoted got that thought going. However, there has been long speculation about the Asian male victim found in female clothing. His death was different then the other victims and considered more violent. If I recall correctly and not that the others were not violent, imo. I believe the SK may have thought this person was female and when he learned the truth became unhinged hence the outcome. Which to me may infer hidden homosexuality tendencies below the surface one may say or repressed?

 

[Dwntwnslim]

PBS
Frontline
Assault on Gay America
ROOTS OF HOMOPHOBIA
Putting Freud to the Test
by Henry E. Adams, et al.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/roots/freud.html

"Specifically, the present study was designed to investigate whether homophobic men show more sexual arousal to homosexual cues than nonhomophobic men as suggested by psychoanalytic theory..."

"The results of this study indicate that individuals who score in the homophobic range and admit negative affect toward homosexuality demonstrate significant sexual arousal to male homosexual erotic stimuli."

 

[Peter Brendt]

PBS
Frontline
Assault on Gay America
ROOTS OF HOMOPHOBIA
Putting Freud to the Test
by Henry E. Adams, et al.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/roots/freud.html

"Specifically, the present study was designed to investigate whether homophobic men show more sexual arousal to homosexual cues than nonhomophobic men as suggested by psychoanalytic theory..."

"The results of this study indicate that individuals who score in the homophobic range and admit negative affect toward homosexuality demonstrate significant sexual arousal to male homosexual erotic stimuli."

Basically, that is nothing but the scientific worded theory, that we fear more what we know than what we not know. Someone, who reacts on homoerotic cues can fry his own mind all the time with "am I maybe gay". Someone, who doesn't care often comes not even to the idea to fear himself. However, since Freud came to this idea, we've learned, even some of his ideas were great, some not so great.
And because it's so funny, a little story from my life. I had for years all four months some kind of gentlemen's gathering which included some rare whikeys and equally rare cigarrs. It was the most homophobic, who always hesitated to grab in the humidor. Just this little second of hesitation.
And then, another however, we live in a time, gays jump often in everybodies face, which can make even those who otherwise couldn't care less can bring up the next palm tree. So, in a time, psychology is more and more influenced by social expectation, social denial and social dynamics, I have some doubts, this can't be studied in such an isolated view as this study suggests. Just my opinion.