MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[BirdycatNY]

The first thing they should do is scrap these vehicles. Human beings are not cargo. They should not be transported in a cargo van. The best as I can tell these vehicles have about eight seats in them. They could transport the same number of people in the back seats of four patrol cars. It's not like we have a shortage of cops to drive suspects to jail. There were six cops involved in arresting Gray. One of them could have driven him to jail in a patrol car.

This is a good point if the cargo vans aren't particularly practical or safe for transport. Are cargo vans padded? Was the cargo van in Mr. Gray's case padded? If not, this would be something that could be implemented to protect the passengers. Jmo

 

[octobermoon]

Who here suggested such? Like Sonya mentioned earlier the statistics are there for any eyes that seek truth. Mentioning them here is apparently a no-no.

Ack didn't know Columbine was off limits. Sorry. I'll hush.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I don't remember the citizens being polled about any of those decisions.

Yeah, Katy....you & me both must've missed the vote about sending our soldiers into Vietnam, Korea, Iran, Afghanistan, etc
And I won't even go back further to WWI or WWII.

But when our soldiers are there, we try to support.

I wonder why foreigners think we have as citizens that much power to "vote" where we send our troops??!!

And they'll have the gall to insist that we do! Comical & sad at the same time.

Moo

 

[Woodland]

I don't remember the citizens being polled about any of those decisions.

Chuckles - there is no Reid etc poll done regarding such a decision, but to think any current administration doesn't have a pulse on what US citizens would accept at such a time - sure they do. Just look at Baltimore, Ferguson etc. Jmo.

 

[KaaBoom]

My friend is a K-9 Officer with LAUSD. His dog sniffs out guns. He gets a lot of weapons in low income schools. He has never sniffed one out that was on a white student. In 6 years so far, all the guns were in possession of minority gang members.

A quick Google search "student brings gun to school" this is the first result. Guess what race? Not a minority. Maybe you your friend should stop racial profiling and start visiting schools out side of low income areas.

Go search schools in minority neighborhoods, and you find minorities doing things wrong. Who would ever think?:facepalm:

http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/11/13/dad-whose-son-brought-gun-to-school-gets-30-days/

 

[Woodland]

My friend is a K-9 Officer with LAUSD. His dog sniffs out guns. He gets a lot of weapons in low income schools. He has never sniffed one out that was on a white student. In 6 years so far, all the guns were in possession of minority gang members.

Is requesting a link appropriate?

 

[katydid23]

Of course not - I very much agree. But you said you could help us out by showing the vast majority of LE killing of citizens involve the citizens having a weapon - specifically a gun. You said you would provide a link. Looking forward to that link to further educate myself.

"If you're looking at the universe of all arrests, it feels like arrest-related deaths are exceedingly rare. The report noted that those 4,800 arrest-related deaths came during a period in which the FBI estimated that there were nearly 98 million arrests made nationally. That's .005 percent of all arrests, some of which will be deemed justifiable homicides."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch...ned-about-police-shootings-over-the-past-year

So out of 98 MILLION arrests, 4,800 end in death. And some will be deemed justifiable shootings. Still looking for the article I saw which had the numbers broken down more specifically.

 

[katydid23]

A quick Google search "student brings gun to school" this is the first result. Guess what race? Not a minority. Maybe you your friend should stop racial profiling and start visiting schools out side of low income areas.

Go search schools in minority neighborhoods, and you find minorities doing things wrong. Who would ever think?:facepalm:

http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/11/13/dad-whose-son-brought-gun-to-school-gets-30-days/

He goes to all of the schools.

 

[galiuro]

That's not what I am reading...a lot of stuff about how the mayor kept LE from firing into a crowd?! So the ENTIRE Baltimore police force are bad guys looking to shoot people? So why hasn't any of that happened with the curfew and National Guard there NOW? If the answer is that the Guard is somehow better than the Baltimore police then all the more reason the mayor should have called them in sooner.

 

[K_Z]

This is a good point if the cargo vans aren't particularly practical or safe for transport. Are cargo vans padded? Was the cargo van in Mr. Gray's case padded? If not, this would be something that could be implemented to protect the passengers. Jmo

They can't be padded. They have to be able to be hosed down and thoroughly cleaned and sanitized. Bio-hazard control for contaminated body fluids (blood, vomit, feces, saliva, etc.)

All body fluids have to be considered contaminated and infectious. Police have to protect themselves, and the next occupant has to be protected from contamination, as well. There is a sound reason why these custom made "paddy wagons" are used to transport violent suspects.

 

[katydid23]

Ack didn't know Columbine was off limits. Sorry. I'll hush.

No one said it was off limits.

 

[galiuro]

I can see that something went awry with this arrest and that yes, perhaps some of the cops should receive punishment. But that is something that goes thru the justice system and NOT as the result of what a mob outside city hall wants. I think the arrests and what not have done exactly that...that the mayor and the state attorney are out to appease certain people. In the end this may blow up in their faces if they do not the evidence on their side.
And while the cops may have done something wrong, it really ticks me off to see Freddy Gray treated as some sort of angel. Did he deserve what happened to him? No. But he had a part to play in his own demise. Running doesn't mean he is guilty but it sure as hell didn't make him look innocent to the cops and yes the cops have to look out for themselves in that neighborhood.

 

[katydid23]

A quick Google search "student brings gun to school" this is the first result. Guess what race? Not a minority. Maybe you your friend should stop racial profiling and start visiting schools out side of low income areas.

Go search schools in minority neighborhoods, and you find minorities doing things wrong. Who would ever think?:facepalm:

http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/11/13/dad-whose-son-brought-gun-to-school-gets-30-days/

That weapon was found on a kid who felt bullied. he showed it to some friends at school. He brought it to school one day. Hard for a K-9 unit to ever find that.
The K9 finds weapons that are routinely used by young gang members. Not guns taken from Daddy and taken to school as a show and tell.

Look at the number of shooting in minority inner city areas versus middle class suburbs and tell me again what I am saying is incorrect.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Chuckles - there is no Reid etc poll done regarding such a decision, but to think any current administration doesn't have a pulse on what US citizens would accept at such a time - sure they do. Just look at Baltimore, Ferguson etc. Jmo.

We are talking about wars & how the US tries to play "hero" when abroad--I believe that was in either yours or Nanas post was about. I will stand by the statement that no; politicians do not need to take the pulse of a nation before sending our troops anywhere. There is no vote, no poll, nothing measure able. Heck, even the President can overrule his colleagues with "executive orders". The President may surely sense the pulse of what Congress & Senate feel about situations yet even then he can overrule that! He can be impeached and still stay in power (or not).
And from what I've seen here, it usually takes a very serious concerted effort by the citizens to get our soldiers out of these countries (ex. Vietnam).

Now, if you want to mix in the concept of war with civil unrest--ok go right ahead. So do you think our President supports this?

One thing I can tell you is there hasn't been a vote or a poll on it near me so perhaps you're just speculating or do you have a link?

 

[kaen]

I think it is sad that it is all looked at one sided right now. Like the cops are vicious bullies and the people they are surrounded by are ALL lovely peaceful beings. NO, the cops are on the defense when they are in certain neighborhoods. And they are doing so day after day.

There are a dozen innocent people being shot every week in Baltimore. And NOT by the cops.

I don't see the LEOs as vicious bullies. I have never implied it either. I do see FG as a victim and he is. Even the police have said they failed him by not getting medical attention upon his arrest, before he ever entered a van.

I do think that there is a need for reform so that reasonable protections are enforceable for the officers, those encountered by them, and those arrested by them. NO doubt there are extremely dangerous neighborhoods.

That said, there are many law abiding, law enforcement needing citizens who also want to treated with respect and dignity. To characterize these people (not that you are) as part of a problem if they demonstrate is unfair. They may need assistance and help but that is not a crime but rather a possible mechanism for breaking the cycle of poverty. Burnt neighborhoods and businesses are a tragedy for all in the community.

Thanks for your post and the opportunity to share my view.

 

[Woodland]

"If you're looking at the universe of all arrests, it feels like arrest-related deaths are exceedingly rare. The report noted that those 4,800 arrest-related deaths came during a period in which the FBI estimated that there were nearly 98 million arrests made nationally. That's .005 percent of all arrests, some of which will be deemed justifiable homicides."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch...ned-about-police-shootings-over-the-past-year

So out of 98 MILLION arrests, 4,800 end in death. And some will be deemed justifiable shootings. Still looking for the article I saw which had the numbers broken down more specifically.

OK 4,800 arrest related deaths between 2003 and 2009 (or 2+ per day) are a small percentage - in your opinion. No problem. How many had a weapon - according to you it was a majority. The link please? Did not see this in the original article, but could have missed it.

 

[kaen]

And while the cops may have done something wrong, it really ticks me off to see Freddy Gray treated as some sort of angel. Did he deserve what happened to him? No. But he had a part to play in his own demise. Running doesn't mean he is guilty but it sure as hell didn't make him look innocent to the cops and yes the cops have to look out for themselves in that neighborhood.

Agreed on most points. I don't see him as an angel or saint. As he lay dying, I am sure he was thinking of how he might get air and live to see the next day. Each time that van door opened and shut, he must have been terrified as his requests for aid went unanswered. In that sense, I do hope his soul is rested. I see it similar as being buried alive--knowing there is air and unable to access it.

I disagree that he played a part in his demise. He asked for an inhaler. Protocol was that he should have received medical attention. He did nothing to the police in this case. He was apprehended and handcuffed. At that point he was not a threat.

 

[Goose22]

LOL...heavily taxing them? hTrust me the majority do NOT pay taxes.

How about stopping all taxpayer aid to the families that allow their minor children to riot...i.e. food stamps, section 8, free school lunches, medicaid etc....

Oh, but wait, doing that would be ra.....

That certainly wouldn't help crime levels since crime is associated with poverty. Definitely not a logical decision. It would also leave innocent people without aid.

 

[Woodland]

I can see that something went awry with this arrest and that yes, perhaps some of the cops should receive punishment. But that is something that goes thru the justice system and NOT as the result of what a mob outside city hall wants. I think the arrests and what not have done exactly that...that the mayor and the state attorney are out to appease certain people. In the end this may blow up in their faces if they do not the evidence on their side.
And while the cops may have done something wrong, it really ticks me off to see Freddy Gray treated as some sort of angel. Did he deserve what happened to him? No. But he had a part to play in his own demise. Running doesn't mean he is guilty but it sure as hell didn't make him look innocent to the cops and yes the cops have to look out for themselves in that neighborhood.

FG has not been treated as an angel imo - his criminal history it out there and included in the discussion. The question many have is, did he need to die a 7 or so day painful death because he ran? It's the future thinking on this that counts for many. Not all, but many.

 

[MissSunshine]

I have a question that maybe someone with legal knowledge can answer. There has been debate on if the knife was legal or not....if the knife is found to be illegal then that would make the arrest legal. Two of the officers charges seem to be based on an illegal arrest so, if it is proven that it is indeed a legal arrest, would the SA be in trouble for bringing those charges against them?

Just a hypothetical question based on the officers charged with assault, false imprisonment, and misconduct in the office.