MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[Woodland]

We are talking about wars & how the US tries to play "hero" when abroad--I believe that was in either yours or Nanas post was about. I will stand by the statement that no; politicians do not need to take the pulse of a nation before sending our troops anywhere. There is no vote, no poll, nothing measure able. Heck, even the President can overrule his colleagues with "executive orders".
And from what I've seen here, it usually takes a very serious concerted effort by the citizens to get our soldiers out of these countries (ex. Vietnam).

Now, if you want to mix in the concept of war with civil unrest--ok go right ahead. So do you think our President supports this?

One thing I can tell you is there hasn't been a vote or a poll on it near me so perhaps you're just speculating or do you have a link?

You have changed the concept of the original post - nothing to say unless you wish to revert to what was said.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

You have changed the concept of the original post - nothing to say unless you wish to revert to what was said.

Your post #110....

Thank you

 

[kaen]

I have a question that maybe someone with legal knowledge can answer. There has been debate on if the knife was legal or not....if the knife is found to be illegal then that would make the arrest legal. Two of the officers charges seem to be based on an illegal arrest so, if it is proven that it is indeed a legal arrest, would the SA be in trouble for bringing those charges against them?

Just a hypothetical question based on the officers charged with assault, false imprisonment, and misconduct in the office.

I have limited legal knowledge. I would guess that the false imprisonment would go. The assault charges and misconduct stem from not securing him repeatedly (going against policy-misconduct), his being place in the van head first rather than seated, and not securing him medical treatment based on their limitations of assessment (assault based on his inability to stabilize himself, performing outside of their expertise by determining he did not need medical treatment), going against policy (securing him and getting medical help if requested).

i work in a field where I am a mandated reporter. The stakes are high if I do not do my duty. Although I not feel that an action is abuse, I have been trained (again and again) that my job is not to judge and investigate but report. In medical arenas, the police are not trained and should not make medical determinations based on their limited training. I take the same training they do in first aid and CPR. WE are trained to call for help in breathing situations because a patient can deteriorate and die in fairly quick timeframes if they have asthma or other health problems.

 

[CARIIS]

All you have to do is look at the route taken by the van to the police department. A 3 minute drive took 30 minutes. They were taking him "for a rough ride". Even the union president said it!

I concur, I think the sad truth here is that he slammed on the brakes to shut him up, got out peeked in saw him lying on the floor where he wanted him to be. I think there was a lot of coverup, which is why the others are charged. I think the takedown broke his spine and rough ride broke his neck, just imo

 

[kaen]

I concur, I think the sad truth here is that he slammed on the brakes to shut him up, got out peeked in saw him lying on the floor where he wanted him to be. I think there was a lot of coverup, which is why the others are charged. I think the takedown broke his spine and rough ride broke his neck, just imo

There is the second stop that we have not yet heard about, corresponding to the video from the market that the police copied before the store was looted. I have to believe that there is evidence that we have not been told of yet.

I absolutely agree about the route. Why move him a block and then process him? Fewer witnesses as the police were already being recorded and people were objecting to his treatment. Was it filled with potholes? Lots of stop signs? Why not take him directly to the station?

Sgt. White was sent to the van based on 2 callers to BPD about possible injuries seen at the arrest site. She was supposed to ensure he was okay. She only spoke to FG in an unconcious state and did not render assistance until he was at the station later.

 

[CARIIS]

A quick Google search "student brings gun to school" this is the first result. Guess what race? Not a minority. Maybe you your friend should stop racial profiling and start visiting schools out side of low income areas.

Go search schools in minority neighborhoods, and you find minorities doing things wrong. Who would ever think?:facepalm:

http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/11/13/dad-whose-son-brought-gun-to-school-gets-30-days/

Yeh actually the folks doing the violent stuff (school shootings/ spree killings/suicide homicides tend to be white). The africian american numbers are drug/money related - when is the last time you heard of an africian american going to his school a blowing up his peers?

Drugs =poverty=money=survival

 

[DebinGA]

From what I've read, Officer Goodson was driving the van w/o another officer with him. And apparently there was no screen near Goodson showing him what was happening in back. How can that be in this day and age? I think school buses in GA all have cameras, and it's helped school admins enormously when irate parents complain about their kids getting picked on or figuring out who started a fight on the bus. Surely police departments have the capability to put cameras that can't be monkeyed with in all police vans, especially those driven by a lone officer. I'd like to see some Baltimore LE higher ups who make such decisions publicly named and questioned about this.

 

[katydid23]

Klebold and Harris had rap sheets. They were criminals and in the end mass murderers. Heck I don't like to go to the movies here anymore since James Holmes. Gun crimes aren't just committed by minorities.

Of course they aren't just committed by minorities. But look at the crime statistics in various communities. I worked for a non-profit that tutored at-risk kids. If I was in some schools, I could walk freely around campus, no fears. At lunchtime I could go sit in my car in the teachers lot and catnap. listen to the radio etc. No problems.
In other schools, I needed an armed security guard to walk me to my car in the lot. And it was not safe to walk around the campus. There were ARMED robberies and assaults on campus. Very big differences in the safety component.

 

[popsicle]

FOX 5 DC ‏@fox5newsdc 56s56 seconds ago
LIVE SOON: @BaltimorePolice will hold a news conference. Watch it here: http://www.myfoxdc.com/category/233074/live-news-video …

 

[katydid23]

Yeh actually the folks doing the violent stuff (school shootings/ spree killings/suicide homicides tend to be white). The africian american numbers are drug/money related - when is the last time you heard of an africian american going to his school a blowing up his peers?

Drugs =poverty=money=survival

And WHY exactly do young kids in that community feel they need to sell drugs to survive? Maybe if they got an education instead of dropping out of school they would not have that need. Maybe if the stores/businesses were not so worried about being robbed/stolen from, they would build in the neighborhoods and there would be more jobs. It is a catch 22.

The educational non-profit that I worked for TRIED to set up new computer rooms in a few low income schools. And guess what happened? The computers were stolen and or vandalized every time. And very quickly. So it is hard to answer the call from the needy students asking for better equipment when small percdntage of them steal or ruin the results.

 

[MissSunshine]

There is the second stop that we have not yet heard about, corresponding to the video from the market that the police copied before the store was looted. I have to believe that there is evidence that we have not been told of yet.

I absolutely agree about the route. Why move him a block and then process him? Fewer witnesses as the police were already being recorded and people were objecting to his treatment. Was it filled with potholes? Lots of stop signs? Why not take him directly to the station?

Sgt. White was sent to the van based on 2 callers to BPD about possible injuries seen at the arrest site. She was supposed to ensure he was okay. She only spoke to FG in an unconcious state and did not render assistance until he was at the station later.

A lot of times, police will move down a little further when a crowd is forming to put real handcuffs and stuff on the arrestee. There was cell phone video of the stop when they put in the shackles that I posted a while back.

They were taking him to Central Bookings, not the police station and the van was going the route to Central Bookings.

The city streets are yucky, lots of potholes and can make for a bumpy ride on certain roads. There are stop signs and traffic lights but I don't really know what is on Mount St. I don't usually travel down Mount because it is a high crime area. I stick to the more travelled roads, like Fulton which has mostly traffic lights.

 

[ohreally]

I believe his fatal injuries occurred when he realized there was another prisoner being put in the van. IMO he to started thrashing about banging his head on the divider trying to be as disruptive as possible, maybe even hoping to get the other passenger to join in and be disruptive. It was all fun and games to him playing injured until he seriously injured himself. Don't get me wrong, I wish that he had not died, but I do think he is more responsible than the officers. If it is true that at every arrest he acts out and asks for medical assistance only to get him medical care and find out he lied then I can see where at first he was acting this time too.

 

[katydid23]

Yeh actually the folks doing the violent stuff (school shootings/ spree killings/suicide homicides tend to be white). The africian american numbers are drug/money related - when is the last time you heard of an africian american going to his school a blowing up his peers?

Drugs =poverty=money=survival

WRONG. The gangs are shooting and KILLING way way more people than any of the school spree killers ever killed.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

And WHY exactly do young kids in that community feel they need to sell drugs to survive? Maybe if they got an education instead of dropping out of school they would not have that need. Maybe if the stores/businesses were not so worried about being robbed/stolen from, they would build in the neighborhoods and there would be more jobs. It is a catch 22.

The educational non-profit that I worked for TRIED to set up new computer rooms in a few low income schools. And guess what happened? The computers were stolen and or vandalized every time. And very quickly. So it is hard to answer the call from the needy students asking for better equipment when small percdntage of them steal or ruin the results.

That is heartbreaking, really.

 

[CoolJ]

Chuckles - there is no Reid etc poll done regarding such a decision, but to think any current administration doesn't have a pulse on what US citizens would accept at such a time - sure they do. Just look at Baltimore, Ferguson etc. Jmo.

If the US gov didn't care what the citizens would accept, Obama would have invaded Syria three years ago. Yes absolutely the citizens have a say. It is the citizens that run the country... Maybe that is being forgotten?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

If the US gov didn't care what the citizens would accept, Obama would have invaded Syria three years ago. Yes absolutely the citizens have a say. It is the citizens that run the country... Maybe that is being forgotten?

Cool----and what platform do the citizens use to have their say?

I for one, have not seen it. Nope.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Exactly. Couple that with direct orders from the mayor to let the rioters destroy property, and stand down.

I honestly have no idea anymore why any police officers are willing to go into these dangerous zones and neighborhoods. Especially white officers. Why even do it? The crooks and gangs all want to kill them, and their supervisory chain scapegoats them and neuters them. The cynical side of me says there is no effective way to police in these kinds of neighborhoods. Maybe we should just stop trying. Save the people who want to get out and try to live a decent, law abiding life. Help those who will help themselves. Build a big fence around the rest, and make those un policed zones. Let the crooks all kill each other and burn and loot whatever's left. It's becoming harder and harder for me to see the crooks, gang bangers, and rioters as even human. They have depersonalized themselves by their own behavior, IMO. I can't even begin to muster any sympathy for them.

It's very frustrating that any police officer has to deal with these people day after day, just waiting for some crooked political tinder to ignite and ruin their lives. I can believe many would just stand by and let the criminals do whatever they want.

I think every single one of the looted businesses, vandalized property owners, everyone who was a victim of the incompetent and corrupt Mayor's decision to have police stand down, should file a hundreds of million dollars class action lawsuit against the Mayor and the city of Baltimore. I think the mayor should face criminal charges herself, IMO. I just can't believe this level of corruption is happening in my country. This is not the kind of America I served for, for so many years. This is shameful and disgraceful.

Excellent post.

I do agree that the Mayor should be brought up on criminal charges. Imo, she was the main facilitator. What Mayor in their right mind first says, she wants to give the violent protestors space to destroy' (paraphrasing) and then watches as parts of her city burns to the ground with multiple structures burned and over 140 vehicles torched? Plus she had to know some of the officers would be hurt.

Not one department head that has been on tv that I have seen has agreed with how she handled this fiasco. And to know she had a heads up that this was going to happen is not only disgusting but reprehensible. Immediately upon knowing about the purge the NG should have been called up then. She should have come out immediately saying anyone doing any kind of criminal act will be arrested immediately.

I truly think she doesn't give a damn what burned down in that area of BM. It is obvious she doesn't live in that community nor associates with those who do and she just didn't care.... for if she had cared.... she would have nipped the violent criminals in the bud immediately letting them know they weren't going to burn her city down on her watch. By her own dangerous reckless statement she not only condoned it she promoted it. Perhaps she sees dollar signs thinking the feds will give money for the rebuild. What those in that area should think about is why are they in such dire straights even before this happened when the democratic party has been in charge of BM for decades. How has that worked out for them? The AA are still one of the highest without jobs even though they have a black president in office.

To know she made all of the police officers stand down and do nothing is mind blowing just thinking about it and it makes me seethe with anger. How dare she be so carless with other people's lives. She put every one of their lives in danger. Its like government officials have lost their minds. Now the criminals can freely run amok and the police who are to see there is law and order are now the very ones handcuffed. Not only handcuffed but each and every one of them know they have a target on their back.

I read a letter online written by one of the policemen there and he said in one day he had five calls and out of those five calls three of them were wanting to fight him. He was so concerned he wrote it down and turned it in. And that is only one officer there. Every one of them has to have the feeling they are going to be ambushed and killed when answering a call for assistance. What a strange and scary world we are now having to live in.

The DA is no better imo. I do believe that the ones who did not render care to Freddie should be held accountable for that but for her to include so many charges is way overcharging the case. Freddie died inside of the van due to a fall per the ME. This is not a case of police brutality/shooting... which by the way... happens to all races and the officers involved come from all races. To me it is a case of negligence by failing to render aide.

It certainly is not the America I have ever known.

What was once wrong is now seen as right and what was once right is now seen as wrong. Our country has flipped upside down and I don't think it will ever be upright again. Due to so many democratic government officials both state, local, and federal we are now more divisive. These officials have single handedly set race relations back decades. Even now the protestors chant in BM 'no justice, no peace, no racist police' when this case involves three black cops and three white cops.

I do believe the innocent citizens and businesses that suffered trauma from what happened to them who had their property destroyed should be able to sue the city of Baltimore including the Mayor. The city is certainly sued for other misgivings so they should have the same right as anyone else who has been harmed.

I really think that every police agency in the country needs to call in tomorrow with a case of BLUE FLU. Many are wanting no laws in place anyway. So everyone can protect themselves.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

OK 4,800 arrest related deaths between 2003 and 2009 (or 2+ per day) are a small percentage - in your opinion. No problem. How many had a weapon - according to you it was a majority. The link please? Did not see this in the original article, but could have missed it.

Well, if the original number is 98MILLION---then YES, 4,800 is a very small number.

The link said some of those 4,800 are justified. Thus some would have had weapons. I cannot find the earlier article yet, which had a specific number.

Are you saying that 4,800 out of 98, 000, 000 is a large percentage? Because that is how many end in death, including death of an officer, and including those who were armed.

 

[katydid23]

That is heartbreaking, really.

It is heartbreaking. The small minority that ruins it for others is devastating.

 

[CoolJ]

That weapon was found on a kid who felt bullied. he showed it to some friends at school. He brought it to school one day. Hard for a K-9 unit to ever find that.
The K9 finds weapons that are routinely used by young gang members. Not guns taken from Daddy and taken to school as a show and tell.

Look at the number of shooting in minority inner city areas versus middle class suburbs and tell me again what I am saying is incorrect.

Number of shootings in inner cities has nothing to do with the cultural make up of those inner cities. They are inner cities. That's why there is a large number of shootings. I am sick of people talking the way they are here. People of color do not have some sort of genetic make-up that predisposes them to being a violent gang banger.
Brutal, just brutal the way people are talking.

America is divided folks. Better wake up quick, fast and in a hurry.