MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #2

[ShadyLady]

Is anyone able to see CNN or FOX covering Baltimore live? Online they are showing series.

 

[CARIIS]

Yes katy it is a problem. But it doesn't overshadow the very real fact that there is corruption within the BPD. Some people feel that corruption by those in positions of authority is a very serious matter.
Is it a contest of which issues are the most important?

There two seperate problems - one typically anticpates that those that are sworn to uphold the laws of the land do so. One does not have the same expectation of a crack dealer.

A murderer who murders someone elicits a response of sorts, while a medical doctor who does usually has a different repsonse.

same kinda deal with a currupt senator, versus a currupt McDonals manager. Expectations do influnce public response. There is a reason why probable cause has been established , probable cause is the standard by which persons acting under the color of law has the grounds to obtain a warrant for, or as an exception to the warrant requirements for, making an arrest or conducting a personal or property search, etc. when criminal charges are being considered.

They blantley falsfied a legal documnment (Linked earler) the knife was described as spring loaded, when in reality it was not. IF these standards of practice had been followed we probably would not have this story to disxcuss




there are expectations

 

[KEVINinTO]

In a Baltimore SUN article regarding alleged conflicts of interests it was revealed that the Deputy SA in charge of the FG investigation - Janet Bledsoe - is in a relationship with WBAL reporter Jayne Miller:

Jayne Miller, investigative reporter for WBAL-TV, confirmed to a Sun reporter Friday that she is in a relationship with Bledsoe.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/enterta...dia-conflicts-of-interest-20150501-story.html

Why this is interesting is Miller has had many "exclusives" in this saga. For instance the day after the Washington Post reported on the statement made by the second passenger in the van - WBAL's Jayne Miller had an exclusive with Donta Allen that completely contradicted the WP story. For one thing the person in the WP story was 38 whereas Donta Allen is only 22. The person in the WP story was still in jail whereas Donta Allen was never in jail.

CNN's Don Lemon had an interview with Allen but held off playing it for a day because of concerns that he was perhaps an imposter:

DON LEMON: I spoke to him [Donta] yesterday. What people didn’t realize, I was out here talking to him yesterday [Thursday 4/30]. No one knew who he was. The records at the police station show that he’s still in jail.

BROOKE BALDWIN: He was still in jail. But he’s not.

LEMON: And he’s not. And that was the issue of getting it on yesterday. Because we had it yesterday, we had it first, but we want to be — I’d rather be accurate than first. And so, today, when we spoke with the prosecutor, they said, indeed, it is him. You’ll hear his story tonight.

BALDWIN: OK, Don Lemon, great coverage. Thank you so much my friend.

LEMON: Thank you, Brooke.”

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1505/01/cnr.08.html

The official city of Baltimore arrest records indicate a 38 year old male arrested at that approximate time and location, i.e. the official arrest records seem to support the facts in the WP story.

https://data.baltimorecity.gov/Public-Safety/BPD-Arrests/3i3v-ibrt/1044

The big question is which story is correct? The Washington Post story (which is supported by arrest records) OR the story reported by WBAL and later by other outlets such as CNN? These msm reports are at complete odds with each other. If in fact Donta is an impostor the deputy SA and the SA herself have some explaining to do!

 

[shadowraiths]

Exclusive look inside the Freddie Gray investigation

In a fourth-floor conference room at Baltimore police headquarters, two training officers in blue T-shirts and blue pants lowered themselves onto the carpeted floor to demonstrate the leg hold officers used to restrain Freddie Gray the day he was arrested — and sustained a fatal spine injury.

As one officer played Gray's role, lying face down on the floor, the other bent his crossed legs back toward his head. Watching closely were members of the police task force investigating Gray's death, and Dr. David L. Higgins, a Maryland orthopedic surgeon who has worked with the U.S. Olympic team.

[...]

"From that maneuver, even if you slammed him or dropped him like a wrestling move, you still won't have a neurological injury," said Higgins, continuing to explain in more detail.

[...]

The scene on Thursday was part of a high-stakes police investigation — and came as Baltimore was reeling from protests that brought thousands of marchers, and some violence, to city streets. International attention was focused on the city, and many residents were protesting alleged police brutality and calling for criminal charges.​

Baltimore Sun

 

[CoolJ]

In a Baltimore SUN article regarding alleged conflicts of interests it was revealed that the Deputy SA in charge of the FG investigation - Janet Bledsoe - is in a relationship with WBAL reporter Jayne Miller:



http://www.baltimoresun.com/enterta...dia-conflicts-of-interest-20150501-story.html

Why this is interesting is Miller has had many "exclusives" in this saga. For instance the day after the Washington Post reported on the statement made by the second passenger in the van - WBAL's Jayne Miller had an exclusive with Donta Allen that completely contradicted the WP story. For one thing the person in the WP story was 38 whereas Donta Allen is only 22. The person in the WP story was still in jail whereas Donta Allen was never in jail.

CNN's Don Lemon had an interview with Allen but held off playing it for a day because of concerns that he was perhaps an imposter:




http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1505/01/cnr.08.html

The official city of Baltimore arrest records indicate a 38 year old male arrested at that approximate time and location, i.e. the official arrest records seem to support the facts in the WP story.

https://data.baltimorecity.gov/Public-Safety/BPD-Arrests/3i3v-ibrt/1044

The big question is which story is correct? The Washington Post story (which is supported by arrest records) OR the story reported by WBAL and later by other outlets such as CNN? These msm reports are at complete odds with each other. If in fact Donta is an impostor the deputy SA and the SA herself have some explaining to do!

And who has some explaining to do if he is not an imposter?

 

[KEVINinTO]

And who has some explaining to do if he is not an imposter?

The WP information came from an application for a search warrant that was written by a police investigator. The WP had requested this document (i.e. it wasn't "leaked to the press" as is often alleged). If the information is incorrect the police investigator will be in hot water. If I were to place bets I would bet the WP got the facts right and Donta is an impostor (IMO).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

 

[al66pine]

Yes katy it is a problem. But it doesn't overshadow the very real fact that there is corruption within the BPD. Some people feel that corruption by those in positions of authority is a very serious matter. Is it a contest of which issues are the most important?

bbm

Not katy, but responding w my own thought.
Let's agree for sake of discussion: Real fact = some BPD LEOs are corrupt.
Ok? All? No. Most? No. No need to try to quantify further, for this discussion.

"Corruption by those in positions of authority is a very serious matter"? Yes, yes, yes.
I agree and imo, most or virtually all on W/S would agree. Not just for sake of discussion.

Which issue is more important -
crime of corruption of BPD LEOs or B'more's crimes committed by non-LEO?

Which is more damaging to B'more residents?

 

[Boytwnmom]

including in Baltimore. Below are the 2013 statistics which show 94% of the murder victims were black.

Why do people who supposedly care so much about police abuse of minorities not care about this? I just don't get it. There are huge turnouts for protests against the the police day after day. Now there are celebratory "protests" in Baltimore because police got arrested. All this time and energy spent "protesting" while Baltimore remains #6 on the list of the 10 most dangerous cities in the country. Since Freddie Gray died there have been 13 murders in Baltimore with the victim listed as either black or unknown. And people are celebrating...http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/recenthundred.php

According to the CDC, homicide was the No. 1 killer of black men between the ages of 15 and 34 in 2011.

Compared to other ethnicities, the numbers really stand out. Forty percent of African-American males 15-34 who died were murdered, according to the CDC, compared to just 3.8 percent of white males who died. Overall, 14 percent of all men 15-34 who died in 2011 were murdered.

In 2011, black males 15-34 were 10 times more likely to die of murder than whites of the same age group.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/24/juan-williams/juan-williams-no-1-cause-death-african-americans-1/

And what are the most dangerous cities in America-http://lawstreetmedia.com/crime-america-2015-top-10-dangerous-cities-200000-2/. The demographics for those cities are readily available but I'm not going to get into it here. But in my experience, nothing can change if people refuse to acknowledge the reality of the problem.

Demographics of 2012 Baltimore homicides
January 01, 2013|By Justin Fenton, The Baltimore Sun

[This data has been updated]

Each year, the Baltimore Police homicide section compiles statistics on city killings. Here's how some of the data break down:

Murders: 217

Cause:
Arson: 1
Blunt force: 7 (3.6%)
Handgun: 181 (83.4%)
Knife/sharp object: 20 (9.2%)
Shotgun/rifle: 2
Strangle/suffocation: 2
Vehicle: 1
Other: 3

Gender:
Male: 196 (90.3%)
Female: 21 (9.7%)

Race:
Asian: 1
Black: 204 (94.4%)
Hispanic: 1
White: 10 (4.6%)

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-01-01/news/bal-demographics-of-2012-baltimore-homicides-20121231_1_drug-arrests-baltimore-homicides-gun-crimes

The new Mayor is probably responsible for some of the deaths as she instituted programs to REDUCE arrests after the former Mayor, O'Malley, became Governor.

Returning to the days of mass arrests for any and every minor offense might be a good talking point but it has been proven to be a far less effective strategy for actually reducing crime," Rawlings-Blake said in a statement. The mayor argued that the O’Malley’s policing methods as mayor alienated communities and diminished trust in police. “Quite frankly, the facts could not be clearer that more arrests do not lead to less crime.”

Recently, the governor has argued for increased arrests in Baltimore as a way to combat violent crime.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/blog/bal-rawlingsblake-says-city-wont-return-to-days-of-mass-arrests-under-omalley-20130920-story.html

That was in 2013. By early 2014 there were headlines like this: "Baltimore’s jump in homicides in 2013 defies national trends". https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2014/01/02/baltimores-jump-in-homicides-in-2013-defies-national-trends/

And it didn't improve in 2014.

The mayor plans to focus the majority of Monday afternoon's State of the City speech on what her administration is doing to address the violence. Homicides are up by 80 percent in 2014 compared with last year,

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2014-02-09/news/bs-md-ci-state-of-the-city-20140209_1_violent-crime-violent-offenders-city-speech

The Mayor may be popular (or not, I don't actually know) but her policies seem to have done nothing to quell the violence in her city or improve the lives of her constituents.

Number of shootings in inner cities has nothing to do with the cultural make up of those inner cities. They are inner cities. That's why there is a large number of shootings. I am sick of people talking the way they are here. People of color do not have some sort of genetic make-up that predisposes them to being a violent gang banger.
Brutal, just brutal the way people are talking.

America is divided folks. Better wake up quick, fast and in a hurry.

 

[teedie2]

I agree. I don't think there is any place for curfews in a free society. If I was a law abiding citizen in Baltimore I would not like to be told I cannot go out past ten (especially on a weekend). This is also hurting a lot of businesses.

At this point in time, if I were a law abiding citizen in Baltimore, I would not even want to go out after ten pm. Or earlier.

 

[shadowraiths]

Legal experts divided on charges against Freddie Gray officers

The decision of Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn J. Mosby to file charges of murder and false imprisonment against police officers in the death of Freddie Gray was both bold and novel, according to legal analysts — but some said they will be challenging to prove in court.

"She has overcharged," said criminal defense attorney Steven H. Levin, a former federal prosecutor. As a result, he said, Mosby could lose credibility with the jury, making it more difficult to obtain a conviction on any of the charges.

Other attorneys disagreed, saying it was impossible to judge the strength of Mosby's case without seeing the evidence.​

Baltimore Sun

 

[shadowraiths]

[video=youtube;Dd_enjA4qMA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd_enjA4qMA[/video]​

 

[KEVINinTO]

I have been reviewing the cctv video showing the second passenger being placed into the back of the van and it seems to me that this person has longer hair than Donta Allen (almost like a Afro). I wish the quality of the video was better it does seem to me like a different person.

Here is the link (starting at around the 1 min mark)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/embed/video/1179893.html

For reference a picture of Donta Allen

http://static1.nydailynews.com/polo...gen/derivatives/article_635/allen1n-2-web.jpg

 

[bessie]

OMG! These threads make my head spin. Same old, same old, "stuff" repeated over and over and over and over again. Do opinions change? NO. Does anyone ever open their eyes to a different POV? Rarely.

Certain people are "bad". Certain people are "good". Certain people are "bad". Certain people are "misunderstood". Certain people are "bad". Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat...ad nauseum.

Is there a purposeful reason for this "discussion"??? Please share it with me if it exists. Otherwise, seems like lining up for the big Saturday (Monday, Wednesday, Friday) fight.

JMO

link

 

[Trident]

We're frustrated because we are not allowed to speak the truth. Freddie Gray is just another tool to be used in the systematic dismantling of America - once the hope and envy of the world. The issues in this case, as well as other recent ones, are political, racial, economic and offensive to almost everyone, yet we cannot talk about them honestly, we must pretend, beat around the bush, over and over and over and over. Of course no one will change their mind, because we aren't saying what we really feel, we can't, it isn't pc - so on and on and on it goes and will go on and on and on with the next case.

I realize this is a true crime board, but what could be a worse crime than the destruction of AMERICA?

Neat pic BTW, very apt. You started my day with a good laugh.

 

[Sonya610]

I am just astounded that Gray had been arrested THREE TIMES this YEAR for burglary, assault, dealing etc...

Perhaps if the DA had locked him up for his numerous/continual crimes he would have been kept safe in jail/prison and would have received the medical attention he needed.

 

[K_Z]

Bessie, I agree with you, and I will echo what Trident wrote.

I think the biggest frustration with this case, and other similar recent cases, is that the social outrage on both sides has little to nothing to do with the deceased victim, who in each case was also a violent criminal suspect. No one can speak freely, because of the shackles and the muzzle of political correctness-- not just on this board, but in other public arenas-- political correctness that only favors one point of view.

The entire situation is not at all about Freddie Gray, or excessive force by police, IMO, but an opportunistic exploitation of Freddie Gray and the police officers, as a predatory platform for social politics. JMO. Freddie Gray is a tool, exploited not for who he was, or how he died, IMO, but a tool to advance a social and political agenda.

The conversation would be most productive here, and in other public venues, if political correctness went out the window. Then we could get to the REAL issues, and what to do to improve things. JMO. IDK-- maybe a topic for the basement, member's only area?

 

[Elley Mae]

I am just astounded that Gray had been arrested THREE TIMES this YEAR for burglary, assault, dealing etc...

Perhaps if the DA had locked him up for his numerous/continual crimes he would have been kept safe in jail/prison and would have received the medical attention he needed.

Not sure if he would have safe but he probably would have had easier access to drugs. jmo idk Oh and welcome to bal'more Hon.

.........................................................

The verdicts brought the total number of people convicted in the case to 40 — 24 of whom were corrections officers at the Baltimore City Detention Center.


Only eight defendants pleaded not guilty. Their trial began in November and featured testimony by Tavon White, the alleged ringleader of the Black Guerrilla Family gang inside the jail. The case attracted national attention in part because of the lurid disclosure that White fathered four children with corrections officers while directing drug dealing and extortion operations in the jail.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-bgf-trial-verdict-20150205-story.html

 

[SugarQueen]

They blantley falsfied a legal documnment (Linked earler) the knife was described as spring loaded, when in reality it was not. IF these standards of practice had been followed we probably would not have this story to disxcuss
there are expectations

Snipped for space......I may have missed where " they blatantly falsified a document" on the knife. Has more information come out on the knife? Why do you believe it was NOT spring loaded? ( or spring assist). Aside from the LE report, the only thing I have heard is " folding knife", " not a switchblade", and " not illegal".

ETA: I don't think anyone is " lying" about the knife. I do believe it is a one hand, spring assist knife. It's the murky way the law is written that leaves its legal status up for debate.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Well, since you asked; here goes it: I do think there's a purpose to this thread & I do feel that this issue has a broader social scope. I value people's POV's on this thread & many of the links/stats they provide. I read everyone's comments and hit "like" if I feel there is merit or a good point made by a poster. How else do we share or learn?

Rarely do I see any poster here attacking another poster on WS. Rarely do I feel this board is over moderated. Personally, this issue (& other cases about social structure, socioeconomics, crime, etc) will become **the** issue in the decades looming ahead in this country, IMHO. We are watching the beginnings of it now.

My take on this issue at hand is that it is more about the growing economic divide within our country than anything else but I have a tendency to look at things from a macro level. You know, corporatism/capitalism versus democracy/socialism at this point.

Also, I'm happy the Mods here allow us freedom of speech with the caveat that it be respectful. That's a great thing--very important. I would venture to say that the Mods have a tough job at times--& I've heard the pay isn't that great!

Moo

 

[SCHMAE]

Bessie, I agree with you, and I will echo what Trident wrote.

I think the biggest frustration with this case, and other similar recent cases, is that the social outrage on both sides has little to nothing to do with the deceased victim, who in each case was also a violent criminal suspect. No one can speak freely, because of the shackles and the muzzle of political correctness-- not just on this board, but in other public arenas-- political correctness that only favors one point of view.

The entire situation is not at all about Freddie Gray, or excessive force by police, IMO, but an opportunistic exploitation of Freddie Gray and the police officers, as a predatory platform for social politics. JMO. Freddie Gray is a tool, exploited not for who he was, or how he died, IMO, but a tool to advance a social and political agenda.

The conversation would be most productive here, and in other public venues, if political correctness went out the window. Then we could get to the REAL issues, and what to do to improve things. JMO. IDK-- maybe a topic for the basement, member's only area?

BBM Nail on the head !